Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 144

Thread: Mike D'Antoni's influence on our resurgence

  1. #76
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,301
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Mike D'Antoni is one of the 5 best offensive coaches in the NBA.

    He's also top 5 in coach-player relationships, I've never heard of a player who doesn't want to play for D'Antoni.

    From members of Team USA, to NBA All-Star Game members to Free Agents, every player I listen to has nothing but praises for D'Antoni.

    He's well respected among his colleagues too, from JVG to POP to coach K.

    I like his demeanor in interviews too, he's always positive has a good sense of humor and likes to throw a pinch of irony in from now and then.

    I don't love him or idolize him, my favourite coach in the NBA is JVG, but I hold no grudges against him either. I hated our defense last season and ever since he took over, but this season we're pretty good on defense and I have to give him, Tyson and coach Woodson credit for that.

    Our players really seem to like and support him and when they buy into his system, we win as the last couple of games demonstrated.

    D'Antoni is a decent coach and has a unique ability to get the most out of mediocre players or turn good players into superstars.

    His offense doesn't suit every player though that's why a guy like Melo doesn't look too good under D'Antoni, but that's not D'Antoni's fault.

    When a mechanic works for Chevrolet and his boss tells him to replace a Corvette dashboard with a Ford Bronco dashboard it's not his fault that those parts don't fit, it's his bosses fault for giving him the wrong piece and not understanding that a Covertte and a Ford Bronco dashboard don't fit together.
    yeah yeah yeah.....all the 2010 star FA was knocking down the Knicks door.
    young headcoach Del Negro and headcoach Byron Scott prove Dantoni isnt
    worthy to be their assistant coach assistant.
    Wake-up....this is 2012 in New York MSG, its no longer
    2005-6 Nash/Marion/Stat Phoenix Suns daze

  2. #77
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Cool Don't get it twisted

    This is amazing...

    Posters arguing about high & low % shots:

    As if we haven't had front row seats to the chuck fest in prior games. Keeping it simple (for all my non-ball players), do you recall games when we shot 30+ 3's? Do you recall how up and down we were; how even when we made them at high %'s we lost...recall? It was not an anomaly. We know this because a) it has happened frequently in the past b) it continued although we were struggling.

    That was coaching!

    Players right under our noses:

    Please recall Anthony Randolph, Marbury, and Mozgov (to name a few). What do they have in common? They all had talent, all had what we lacked, all over-looked. Recall Mozgov in particular. Remember why he got extended minutes. Remember what our defensive ratings were, rebound rankings, and the toll it took on players like Stat forced to play out-of-position.

    Mozgov like Lin are PROOF that Mike sold you guys a bill of goods, yet had no clue. If he did, those instances wouldn't be. This is furthered by the fact that Mike overlooked many quality draft picks. Hard to be an offensive genius when you are a novice talent evaluator.

    Jeremy Lin:

    The statistics say, since Lin we have increased our scoring, increased our scoring in the paint (high %), gotten Tyson involved more and shot way less threes.

    Because of the FACTS listed above (high vs low % shots, inaccurate talent evaluation) there is too much evidence that leads to the conclusion that coach is not what he seems.

    We had trouble playing fundamentally sound; poor passing, poor defense, unable to exploit our strengths. Forcing and making poor decisions like Toney Douglas' minutes, 40+ three pointer, neglecting minutes for viable big man options in Jerome Jordan in favor of small line-ups...

    Until a player came/played that superseded this. Like Chauncey Billups, Lin knows ball, knows how to play inside out. It was because of him and him alone that we are finally winning by playing fundamentally sound. Drive and kick, reduce the threes, draw fouls.

    ANYONE WHO CANNOT ADMIT THIS, WHO TRIES TO GIVE THIS CREDIT TO COACH ARE EITHER:

    1. Clueless and really have not watched the games or

    2. In denile

    That being said, I am still willing to give coach some credit. But I know the deal. Its evident and obvious. If coach were who some make him out to be, we wouldn't be here having this discussion.

    The lucky, fortunate ascention of Jeremry Lin is what we can attribute this rise toward. His fundamentally sound style has superseded coach's philosophical approach. To think any different is Linsane.

    Sabermetrics can't tell me what my eyes and years of observation can. We are winning inspite of D'Antoni, not because of.

  3. #78
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    929
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    The only thing that's changed for me, is i don't want him fired, until the end of the year.That's it, he's still a terrible coach.

  4. #79
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    ha ha ha ha Dantoni winning a NBA championship is like diving off a 20 story
    buiding head first hitting concrete and living to talk about it ha ha ha ha ha
    Dantoni's flawed coaching wouldnt last a half a season in the NCAA...
    To be clear, nobody is saying he will win the title (except for Red in the other thread lol). I am saying that C&P clearly stated IF MDA won a title (so assume he wins the title), he MIGHT CONSIDER toning down his criticism.

    If he won an NBA Championship (as long a shot as you think those odds are, assume for a second it happened) - there's no reason to criticize him, and if you DO feel that way then you are coming from a biased place that really kills whatever momentum or strength your argument has.

  5. #80
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    How can someone say its all one person and not another? Would lin have set scoring records with any system, for any coach? The only reason were getting into the paint and getting high % shots is because we now have someone capable/willing to get into the paint and get high % shots.


    since some of you obviously chose to skip over the logical parts of this thread, i feel it necessary to paste this here:
    unless you have significant samples of lin with dantoni, lin with another coach, and dantoni with another pg, you cannot draw conclusions as far as who is responsible for the success strictly from the box score. the truth is they BOTH deserve credit, but i can understand those simple-minded or mentally lazy people needing a simpler explanation like 'its x or its y'

  6. #81
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    525
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    ha ha ha ha Dantoni winning a NBA championship is like diving off a 20 story
    buiding head first hitting concrete and living to talk about it ha ha ha ha ha
    Dantoni's flawed coaching wouldnt last a half a season in the NCAA...
    Which is why he came one Robert Horry shove from winning the championship with the Suns. Say what you want about D'Antoni, but he has gotten closer to the championship than 90% of the other coaches out there.

    Seriously.... blind hate is just ignorant. I don't like D'Antoni, but I won't blame every single damn thing on him. All the players like him. He's universally respected by other coaches who actually have played against him and know their ****e. Most of his hate comes from bandwagon analysts and narrow minded people who always need a single scapegoat to blame all their problems on. His own players still think he's an offensive genius and blame themselves for not executing his gameplan when they lose. Its obvious D'Antoni has a decent degree of basketball knowledge and the best part is our players love him and other players want to come over to our team and play for him.

    90% of being a good coach is having your team trust you and playing hard. Its really up to the players to win the game and execute plans. Look at the Wizards when they had Flip Saunders. He's known to the the thickest and most complicated playbook in the league. Unfortunately, his players are dumb as rocks and can't handle anything even close to an actual NBA play. Is it the coach's fault?

  7. #82
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Which is why he came one Robert Horry shove from winning the championship with the Suns. Say what you want about D'Antoni, but he has gotten closer to the championship than 90% of the other coaches out there.

    Seriously.... blind hate is just ignorant. I don't like D'Antoni, but I won't blame every single damn thing on him. All the players like him. He's universally respected by other coaches who actually have played against him and know their ****e. His own players still think he's an offensive genius and blame themselves for not executing his gameplan when they lose.

    90% of being a good coach is having your team trust you and playing hard. Its really up to the players to win the game and execute plans. Look at the Wizards when they had Flip Saunders. He's known to the the thickest and most complicated playbook in the league. Unfortunately, his players are dumb as rocks and can't handle anything even close to an actual NBA play. Is it the coach's fault?
    OBVIOUSLY any good coach wouldnt have had his players in a position to be shoved

  8. #83
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by amazinz5
    How can someone say its all one person and not another? Would lin have set scoring records with any system, for any coach? The only reason were getting into the paint and getting high % shots is because we now have someone capable/willing to get into the paint and get high % shots.
    So let me get this straight.

    First you ask "how can someone say its one person and not another?"

    Then you follow that up by asserting the difference is "having someone capable/willing to get into the paint."

    That's called double talk. Stop wasting our time.

    Regarding it being "one person and not another"... both of these options entail "one", thus the only valid argument you have or intimate is it was due to someONE else. And for that you have no basis to name D'Antoni as that one.

    Here's why:

    1. Mike was flummoxed as he admitted- he had no answers nor explainations for our poor results

    2. Lin has been on our bench PRIOR to starting 8-15

    Now stay with me...

    Those things above form the basis for REASONABLE INFERRENCE that Lin is mostly responsible for this surge, because obviously had Mike known, he would have been playing him.

    since some of you obviously chose to skip over the logical parts of this thread, i feel it necessary to paste this here:
    unless you have significant samples of lin with dantoni, lin with another coach, and dantoni with another pg, you cannot draw conclusions as far as who is responsible for the success strictly from the box score. the truth is they BOTH deserve credit, but i can understand those simple-minded or mentally lazy people needing a simpler explanation like 'its x or its y'
    Now here's logic.

    We who know basketball knew our style (undisciplined chucking) would not and could not work sans every single mitigating factor falling our way-

    We begged for inside scoring, begged for use of our bigs, begged for post play...

    It didn't happen until Lin made that happen, thus superseding Mike.

    We've done one thing with one set of results, then tried another thing and got better results...

    Logic dictates playing inside out leads to better results. If Lin was responsible for playing inside out, who was logically responsibe for playing outside in? (see Knicks shoot over 40 threes @ 42% and still lost)

    Simple math. No sabermetrics needed.

  9. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by Red
    So let me get this straight.

    First you ask "how can someone say its one person and not another?"

    Then you follow that up by asserting the difference is "having someone capable/willing to get into the paint."

    That's called double talk. Stop wasting our time.

    Regarding it being "one person and not another"... both of these options entail "one", thus the only valid argument you have or intimate is it was due to someONE else. And for that you have no basis to name D'Antoni as that one.

    Here's why:

    1. Mike was flummoxed as he admitted- he had no answers nor explainations for our poor results

    2. Lin has been on our bench PRIOR to starting 8-15

    Now stay with me...

    Those things above form the basis for REASONABLE INFERRENCE that Lin is mostly responsible for this surge, because obviously had Mike known, he would have been playing him.



    Now here's logic.

    We who know basketball knew our style (undisciplined chucking) would not and could not work sans every single mitigating factor falling our way-

    We begged for inside scoring, begged for use of our bigs, begged for post play...

    It didn't happen until Lin made that happen, thus superseding Mike.

    We've done one thing with one set of results, then tried another thing and got better results...

    Logic dictates playing inside out leads to better results. If Lin was responsible for playing inside out, who was logically responsibe for playing outside in? (see Knicks shoot over 40 threes @ 42% and still lost)

    Simple math. No sabermetrics needed.
    jeremy lin didnt do **** before last week, obviously the only difference is mike dantoni

    did lin go against mikes orders and decide to get inside himself? has dantoni preached setting a pic and running to a spot behind the arc for an open three all these years?

    if mike dantoni picked his roster and didnt have a pg i'd understand not having a pg that can run his system being his fault. now that he has what he needs the knicks are killing it. partially because of lin, and partially because of dantoni. also deserving credit are tyson, jj, novak, shumpert, woodson.

    youre putting words in my mouth. i never gave mda all the credit. you cannot say it was one person or the other because with the variable of having lin playing and the constant of mda we have had recent success. the closest we have to empirical evidence is: lin without dantoni did not work, dantoni without lin has varied from pathetic to not that far from champions, and dantoni with lin looks like a match made in heaven. you'd have a much better arguement if it was some pg that had MORE success without dantoni than with him.
    Last edited by amazinz5; Feb 14, 2012 at 13:06.

  10. #85
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,463
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    And yet you continue to skirt the issue.

    Again, it's simple: If you are fair about MDA how does saying "if he brings a championship I MIGHT consider laying off him" make you at all fair?

    He would give the ultimate prize back to NY, the best possible outcome of the season, a championship in NY. And you MIGHT CONSIDER laying off of him. Not "I will lay off him" or "I would tone down the criticism", but "MIGHT CONSIDER" it.

    That's not fair.

    And if you are think you are fair, you are blind.
    You just dont want to accept my answer. You started the JVG and Riley comparison. MDA has just about as much talent now than both those coaches teams combined. Him bringing back a ring should be a foregone conclusion.

    The reason I only "MIGHT" consider laying off him is because the team is young enough to win multiple titles.

    The reason I only "MIGHT" consider laying off him is because I dont like his philosophy.

    The reason I only "MIGHT" consider laying off him is because he has to adjust to his roster sometimes. Which he is proving time and again he's incapable of doing...

  11. #86
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    this will be much easier once people accept 'mike benefited from having a pg' and 'lin benefited from having a system that optimizes his abilities' are not mutually exclusive

  12. #87
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,529
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Mike D'Antoni is one of the 5 best offensive coaches in the NBA.
    LOLOLOLOLOL! SO now we're separating head coaches into offensive and defensive? Tell me who's the 5 best COACHES period?

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    He's also top 5 in coach-player relationships, I've never heard of a player who doesn't want to play for D'Antoni.
    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    From members of Team USA, to NBA All-Star Game members to Free Agents, every player I listen to has nothing but praises for D'Antoni.
    Are you serious? Players always speak positive about coaches. Its basically an unwritten rule while you're still in the league and want to continue earning money. Its media training 101 man! Ask those same players about any other coach and you'll get similar answers. LOL @ you not knowing that.

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    He's well respected among his colleagues too, from JVG to POP to coach K.
    See above. Also, coaching is a fraternity in case you failed to realize that too.

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Our players really seem to like and support him and when they buy into his system, we win as the last couple of games demonstrated.
    After all this time, players have still not bought into his "system"? Strange.

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    D'Antoni is a decent coach and has a unique ability to get the most out of mediocre players or turn good players into superstars.

    His offense doesn't suit every player though that's why a guy like Melo doesn't look too good under D'Antoni, but that's not D'Antoni's fault.
    Okay so you claim MOA has a "unique" ability to get the most out of players but then say his "offense" doesn't suit every player. That proves to me and everyone that he's not very versatile and at most a one trick pony. I guess the mediocre players you're talking about is Felton/Duhon and the good to superstar players were Nash/Amare. I'd say Nash is solely responsible for Amare's stardom. Nash would have been great no matter what IMO.

  13. #88
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    if i had a pony and it could only do one thing, but that one thing was to make sofya vergara appear and suck my **** i would not be complaining about what it couldnt do. mike dantoni can make this team as strong an offensive threat as anyone, but we love to harp on what he couldnt do when he didnt have the talent he needed.

  14. #89
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,463
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by amazinz5
    this will be much easier once people accept 'mike benefited from having a pg' and 'lin benefited from having a system that optimizes his abilities' are not mutually exclusive

    I have no problem accepting any of that. My point is MDAs adjustment pre-Lin. God forbid, what happens if Lin is injured for 2-3 weeks? We lose games because MDA cant adjust? We start shooting an inordinate amount of threes because Lin isnt there? There are ways to exploit the paint area without the perfect PG.

    Its been done for decades. Just not by MDA...

  15. #90
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    497
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl

    I have no problem accepting any of that. My point is MDAs adjustment pre-Lin. God forbid, what happens if Lin is injured for 2-3 weeks? We lose games because MDA cant adjust? We start shooting an inordinate amount of threes because Lin isnt there? There are ways to exploit the paint area without the perfect PG.

    Its been done for decades. Just not by MDA...
    1) its been established that mda has shortcomings that are pretty much standard for any other coach to be fine with
    2) thats like asking for interior defense with a soft pf-c combo. you cant credit him in that area but if anyone gets the blame its the person that failed to provide the tools necessary. if lin goes down were screwed but no coach can run an offense smoothly with no pg unless you have a kobe or lebron.

Similar Threads

  1. Why Mike D'Antoni needs to be fired
    By Paul1355 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Jan 21, 2012, 18:07
  2. This Is Why We Need A New Coach.
    By Red in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: Apr 27, 2011, 08:43
  3. Mike D'Antoni The Meter Is Running
    By KNICKMATIC809 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: Apr 28, 2010, 20:25
  4. ESPN rates Dantoni's first 2 seasons as coach
    By nyk_nyk in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Apr 16, 2010, 14:45
  5. Mike D
    By Crazy⑧s in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jan 01, 2009, 20:19

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •