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Thread: Are the 2012 Knicks a Modern Day version of the Suns?

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    Member CoolRunnings's Avatar
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    Default Are the 2012 Knicks a Modern Day version of the Suns?

    Here is the Roster from the 2004-2005 Suns Roster

    C-Amare Stoudamire
    Pf-Shawn Marion
    Sf-Quentin Richardson
    Sg-Joe Johnson
    Pg-Steve Nash

    Bench:
    C-Steven Hunter
    F-Walter McCarty
    F-Jim Jackson
    G-Leandro Barbosa
    G-Smush Parker
    C-Jake Voshkul
    F-Bo Outlaw



    Here is our PENDING roster if healthy

    G-Lin/Davis
    SG-Fields/Shump
    SF-Melo/JR
    PF-STAT/Novak/Jorts
    C- Tyson/ Jefferies/Jorts


    I only ask this question becasue it was brought up on the Mike Francesa show today. I was kind of interested when he mentioned it. I do believe he X-factor however is Tyson and the all around improved defense. A lot of people regarded that Suns team as one of the best teams of the past decade to not win a championship.

    Also take a look at Barbosa on that team; can Shump or JR be that premier scorer off the bench?

    Our depth is without a doubt 10 times better than that team.




    Lin= Nash
    Fields= Joe Johnson before he was Joe Johnson
    Melo= Shawn Marion when he was in the talks for MVP
    Stat=STAT
    Tyson= The missing key to why he didn't win in Phoniex


    Bench

    Davis= way better than any backup or starter before lin even at half strength
    Shump= Will play well with Davis and no more point guard duties for him
    JR= Will be explosive off the bench and can drop 20 at any given night
    Novak= will be amazing espicially with shump, JR, Davis driving to the basket
    Jefferies= Defense, Hustle, Muscle, Charges



    I'm not saying that this team is any way shape or form like that team, just relaying a message that was expressed on WFAN radio show. Callers phoned in to say how they can see comparisons.
    Last edited by CoolRunnings; Feb 16, 2012 at 20:04.

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    thats what i was thinking last night

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    Member CoolRunnings's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Number3
    thats what i was thinking last night
    It's kind of interesting when you look at the rosters. But I do believe our team is far better. We're a way bigger team, with Tyson and Amare at the 4 and 5. They had Marion playing PF at 6'7.

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    Veteran LeFlume's Avatar
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    That system was succesful in 2004...It's 2012 now and it doesn't work..

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    I got Soul StreetDreams21's Avatar
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    No, and I wouldn't want them to be, considering they never won a title.

    This team is more defensive minded. And not ONLY because of Chandler, because of Shump and Jeffries as well.

    Comparing Lin to Nash after 2 weeks is ridiculous. I know he's the biggest reason the Knicks have emerged but no. Let's finish this season at the least before we see comparisons to a 2 time MVP (Although we can argue all we want if he deserved the 2nd one). Lin is a very high IQ player though, with a good feel for the game like Nash. He's also a better help defender.

    Marion's offensive peak came in the D'Antoni years and he is a better rebounder than Melo. Look at hoe his offense sank after being traded to Miami. It's still good, yes, but not what it was. Marion's strength is his versatility and ability to defend multiple positions.

    Fields is slightly more of a do it all player and a higher IQ player than Johnson while Johnson even in Phoenix was a better scorer.

    And I really can't even recognize anyone of significance on that bench without Barbosa.

    Barbosa is a career 46% Shooter and has had plenty of seasons shooting above that considering he wasn't even in his prime in 2005. JR Smith's best shooting year was 46%, he averages 42%, I don't want him. While JR can drop 20 on any given night, he can also shoot 10-20%, taking us out of the game single handedly as well. I'm not a big fan of those strikeout or home run players, considering we've had 2 players like that (Harrington and Crawford), and while circumstances were different now than it was then, they drove me crazy and I'm skeptical of bringing back a player like that.

    Have we had an update on Baron Davis recently?

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    Member CoolRunnings's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LeFlume
    That system was succesful in 2004...It's 2012 now and it doesn't work..
    In no way shape or form am I condoning us to be like that team, but you can't help and see the parrallels. Woodson was brought in to not run that exact system that Dantoni ran those years in Phoenix. We all know that kind of European basketball can't win in the league.

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    Member CoolRunnings's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
    No, and I wouldn't want them to be, considering they never won a title.

    This team is more defensive minded. And not ONLY because of Chandler, because of Shump and Jeffries as well.

    Comparing Lin to Nash after 2 weeks is ridiculous. I know he's the biggest reason the Knicks have emerged but no. Let's finish this season at the least before we see comparisons to a 2 time MVP (Although we can argue all we want if he deserved the 2nd one). Lin is a very high IQ player though, with a good feel for the game like Nash. He's also a better help defender.

    Marion's offensive peak came in the D'Antoni years and he is a better rebounder than Melo. Look at hoe his offense sank after being traded to Miami. It's still good, yes, but not what it was. Marion's strength is his versatility and ability to defend multiple positions.

    Fields is slightly more of a do it all player and a higher IQ player than Johnson while Johnson even in Phoenix was a better scorer.

    And I really can't even recognize anyone of significance on that bench without Barbosa.

    Barbosa is a career 46% Shooter and has had plenty of seasons shooting above that considering he wasn't even in his prime in 2005. JR Smith's best shooting year was 46%, he averages 42%, I don't want him. While JR can drop 20 on any given night, he can also shoot 10-20%, taking us out of the game single handedly as well. I'm not a big fan of those strikeout or home run players, considering we've had 2 players like that (Harrington and Crawford), and while circumstances were different now than it was then, they drove me crazy and I'm skeptical of bringing back a player like that.

    Have we had an update on Baron Davis recently?

    Alan Hahn said Baron Davis will be back after the all star break on twitter. I did see him shooting around before the game and he looked mobile.


    Again I am not condoning this team to be like that team in any way but people have brought it up. I think the Knicks team we have now is way better than that team. Those Suns teams let up over a 100 points ever season, we're at about 94 points allowed a game.

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    Veteran BIG APPLE SPORTS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CoolRunnings
    Here is the Roster from the 2004-2005 Suns Roster

    C-Amare Stoudamire
    Pf-Shawn Marion
    Sf-Quentin Richardson
    Sg-Joe Johnson
    Pg-Steve Nash

    Bench:
    C-Steven Hunter
    F-Walter McCarty
    F-Jim Jackson
    G-Leandro Barbosa
    G-Smush Parker
    C-Jake Voshkul
    F-Bo Outlaw



    Here is our PENDING roster if healthy

    G-Lin/Davis
    SG-Fields/Shump
    SF-Melo/JR
    PF-STAT/Novak/Jorts
    C- Tyson/ Jefferies/Jorts


    I only ask this question becasue it was brought up on the Mike Francesa show today. I was kind of interested when he mentioned it. I do believe he X-factor however is Tyson and the all around improved defense. A lot of people regarded that Suns team as one of the best teams of the past decade to not win a championship.

    Also take a look at Barbosa on that team; can Shump or JR be that premier scorer off the bench?

    Our depth is without a doubt 10 times better than that team.




    Lin= Nash
    Fields= Joe Johnson before he was Joe Johnson
    Melo= Shawn Marion when he was in the talks for MVP
    Stat=STAT
    Tyson= The missing key to why he didn't win in Phoniex


    Bench

    Davis= way better than any backup or starter before lin even at half strength
    Shump= Will play well with Davis and no more point guard duties for him
    JR= Will be explosive off the bench and can drop 20 at any given night
    Novak= will be amazing espicially with shump, JR, Davis driving to the basket
    Jefferies= Defense, Hustle, Muscle, Charges

    i think you made 1 mistake,amare was the 4 and marion was the 5 lol

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CoolRunnings
    Here is the Roster from the 2004-2005 Suns Roster

    C-Amare Stoudamire
    Pf-Shawn Marion
    Sf-Quentin Richardson
    Sg-Joe Johnson
    Pg-Steve Nash

    Bench:
    C-Steven Hunter
    F-Walter McCarty
    F-Jim Jackson
    G-Leandro Barbosa
    G-Smush Parker
    C-Jake Voshkul
    F-Bo Outlaw



    Here is our PENDING roster if healthy

    G-Lin/Davis
    SG-Fields/Shump
    SF-Melo/JR
    PF-STAT/Novak/Jorts
    C- Tyson/ Jefferies/Jorts


    I only ask this question becasue it was brought up on the Mike Francesa show today. I was kind of interested when he mentioned it. I do believe he X-factor however is Tyson and the all around improved defense. A lot of people regarded that Suns team as one of the best teams of the past decade to not win a championship.

    Also take a look at Barbosa on that team; can Shump or JR be that premier scorer off the bench?

    Our depth is without a doubt 10 times better than that team.




    Lin= Nash
    Fields= Joe Johnson before he was Joe Johnson
    Melo= Shawn Marion when he was in the talks for MVP
    Stat=STAT
    Tyson= The missing key to why he didn't win in Phoniex


    Bench

    Davis= way better than any backup or starter before lin even at half strength
    Shump= Will play well with Davis and no more point guard duties for him
    JR= Will be explosive off the bench and can drop 20 at any given night
    Novak= will be amazing espicially with shump, JR, Davis driving to the basket
    Jefferies= Defense, Hustle, Muscle, Charges
    Ok bro first off you can't compare some players to others.

    Lin does=Nash
    Stat obviously = Stat

    But Shawn Marion=Melo?????? No not at all. Marion is a defensive player who use to have a three point shot, Melo is a dynamic kobe type scorer.

    Fields will never be Joe Johnson, they are two different players. And Fields doesn't have an outside shot, Fields is a slasher, Johnson is a pure scorer.

    With Jr Smith our bench can be better than the Suns bench was.

    Ofcourse Boris Diaw with Barbosa was deadly but we have more height and versatility.

    Daivs, Shump, Smith, Novak, and Harrelson/Jeffries is a better bench with more versatility and defense.

    You only think we are the old Suns because Lin plays so much like Nash.

    This is a different team, especially with Tyson at the 5.

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    Member CoolRunnings's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Ok bro first off you can't compare some players to others.

    Lin does=Nash
    Stat obviously = Stat

    But Shawn Marion=Melo?????? No not at all. Marion is a defensive player who use to have a three point shot, Melo is a dynamic kobe type scorer.

    Fields will never be Joe Johnson, they are two different players. And Fields doesn't have an outside shot, Fields is a slasher, Johnson is a pure scorer.

    With Jr Smith our bench can be better than the Suns bench was.

    Ofcourse Boris Diaw with Barbosa was deadly but we have more height and versatility.

    Daivs, Shump, Smith, Novak, and Harrelson/Jeffries is a better bench with more versatility and defense.

    You only think we are the old Suns because Lin plays so much like Nash.

    This is a different team, especially with Tyson at the 5.

    haha bro I completely agree with everything you are saying. I just brought it up because Mike Fracesa talked about it for like an hour today. If you read my post I said we are a different team calling "tyson" the x-factor. I said our bench is 10 times better.

  11. #11
    Superstar elcol's Avatar
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    the suns and steve nash did not play defense and still to this day do not play defense.

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    Originally Posted by CoolRunnings
    Here is the Roster from the 2004-2005 Suns Roster

    C-Amare Stoudamire
    Pf-Shawn Marion
    Sf-Quentin Richardson
    Sg-Joe JohnsonMP3
    Pg-Steve Nash

    ol:
    C-Steven Hunter
    F-Walter McCarty
    F-Jim Jackson
    G-Leandro Barbosa
    G-Smush Parker
    C-Jake Voshkul
    F-Bo Outlaw



    Here is our PENDING roster if healthy

    G-Lin/Davis
    SG-Fields/Shump
    SF-Melo/JR
    PF-STAT/Novak/Jorts
    C- Tyson/ Jefferies/Jorts


    I only ask this question becasue it was brought up on the Mike Francesa show today. I was kind of interested when he mentioned it. I do believe he X-factor however is Tyson and the all around improved defense. A lot of people regarded that Suns team as one of the best teams of the past decade to not win a championship.

    Also take a look at Barbosa on that team; can Shump or JR be that premier scorer off the bench?

    Our depth is without a doubt 10 times better than that team.




    Lin= Nash
    Fields= Joe Johnson before he was Joe Johnson
    Melo= Shawn Marion when he was in the talks for MVP
    Stat=STAT
    Tyson= The missing key to why he didn't win in Phoniex


    Bench

    Davis= way better than any backup or starter before lin even at half strength
    Shump= Will play well with Davis and no more point guard duties for him
    JR= Will be explosive off the bench and can drop 20 at any given night
    Novak= will be amazing espicially with shump, JR, Davis driving to the basket
    Jefferies= Defense, Hustle, Muscle, Charges
    No because this team plays great defense ... The addition of coach Woodson and Chandler has turned the d around... Teams used to kill us on the glass ... Kill is... And shumpert is one of thebest defenders in the NBA... Defense is much more important in playoffs than regular season... I think we are a Wilson Chandler type player away tom legit contenders... Maybe Jr Smith is our guy

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    Superstar jzero29's Avatar
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    I think besides amare, the players dont match. The suns old personel besides amare was way different.
    Lin may be the closets match and he is not on Nash's level just yet. maybe if he ends the season staying steady.
    who is our barbosa? q.rich? Matrix? Joe johnson?
    and who was their Tyson Chandler?
    Jefferies may have the body type of barbosa, but def not the offense.
    shumpert? like Q-rich not really? who was their fields?
    the offense has a chance to run as well as the offense of old phoenix with the new PG, have to say the suns edge us on that. but if J.lin plays close to Nash, it would be close. But overall they edge us at almost every position, including amare's. Carmelo is the only exception.

    But we out defend them easy, as sad as that is to say, lol.
    Chandler, fields, shump and jefferies actually are defensive husle guys!

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    Originally Posted by jzero29
    I think besides amare, the players dont match. The suns old personel besides amare was way different.
    Lin may be the closets match and he is not on Nash's level just yet. maybe if he ends the season staying steady.
    who is our barbosa? q.rich? Matrix? Joe johnson?
    and who was their Tyson Chandler?
    Jefferies may have the body type of barbosa, but def not the offense.
    shumpert? like Q-rich not really? who was their fields?
    the offense has a chance to run as well as the offense of old phoenix with the new PG, have to say the suns edge us on that. but if J.lin plays close to Nash, it would be close. But overall they edge us at almost every position, including amare's. Carmelo is the only exception.

    But we out defend them easy, as sad as that is to say, lol.
    Chandler, fields, shump and jefferies actually are defensive husle guys!
    Agree I don't see it, this team does not remind me of Phoenix this team has the potential to be greater than those Phoenix teams with their defense and having a player like Melo

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Id say their more similar to the Suns team that had Kurt Thomas before the Matrix for Shaq trade. I think they had Raja Bell too. But Amare's not the player he was back then

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