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Thread: A Plea to Carmelo from his biggest fan

  1. #31
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Dumbest post of the day!

    WTF are you talking about??? How is Melo disrupting the spacing? Please explain that one.

    He won't let go of his sweet spots??? Dude, you have no idea what you're saying. Honestly, I think you just started watching basetball. So you want to reduce Melo to a role player within a so called "system" you worship? lol

    You're questioning his discipline in the "system" when he only took 11 shots and pretty much overpassed the ball. You were on here no too long ago talking about how Melo needs to pass more and stop shooting so much. Oh man I can't wait to find one of your posts and expose you for a non-basketball understanding complaining fool.

    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Yet you want him to "let go of his sweet spots" LOLOLOLOL!!!

    GTFOH with that crap. You've been exposed!
    After a loss...smh why some overcomplicate things, overanalyze things.

    I can be as reactive as any, but the loss to NJ seems relatively simple.

    Shump and Chandler are our best defenders; Shump out due to injury, Chandler too many quick fouls. Thats it. A team shoots 50% from three and your best perimeter defender is out, plus you struggle getting new and reinserted players acclimated... duh.

    First game with Melo back, BD in, and the second for JR Smith. If we played our newer-more-experienced-with-each-other lineup we would have probably looked better and maybe won. But we had to take a (necessary) step back to incorporate some upgrades.

    Melo is NOT Walker, he's better. JR is NOT Fields, he's better but obviously has yet to log significant minutes within this system. Lin is relatively new to them (although they have played together before); how Lin connects with Chandler and STAT is new to them, even I can see they need time. Speaking of...

    It seems like either we are in roster flux, an injury, a lock-out, etc... but there is always something preventing us from completely gelling and being at 100%.

    Where:

    -everyone knows the system and is comfortable with their roles
    -everyone knows what to expect from their teammates
    -the rotation is set 1-15
    -the contingencies and game specific situation plans are understood by everyone
    -everyone on the same page, clicking on all cylinders


    I'm tired of this but see the potential and must keep my eye on the prize. I just seen it (and have before) with the Giants as well as in the first few minutes of that game. Guy's need practice time especially on defense, and as they get it they improve. Adding new players or returning injured players, while a necessity, actually sets us back.

    We can only hope we are clicking on all cylinders come playoff time. That's what we had to hope for with the Giants.

    And with all these egos and new ****, Lin could step up his leadership and assertiveness. The opportunity has presented itself IMO.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by pat
    Actually, I don't think this is dumb. Maybe I can explain. Our offense is build like a horse shoe. The pg has to penetrate into the "horse shoe" towards the basket. If he manages to keep his dribble alive (which Lin sometimes doesn't do as of yet --> hence the turnovers) he can either sink the floater, stop and pop, curl around a block emerging from underneath the basket, or he can -- and this is what should happen most often -- pass it to the open man, either for a three point shot or in penetrating towards the basket. As a variation on that theme, three players can spread the floor even wider and the pg and the pf/c use the middle of our horse shoe to play a pick and role. Melo is used to catching the ball in mid-range, reading the defense, making his move or passing the ball, if the defense are not giving him anything to work with. Doing so, he allows his defender to help out on the pg-penertration, quickly returning afterwards. Also he is right in the way of the pick and role. Neither does he penetrate to the basket, trailing the pg (that's hard work and in at least 70 per cent of the cases you do not get the ball, so it is not in his game plan).
    Ever since this trade happened that's what I have been saying: He is one heck of a player, but I cannot see how he is going to fit in.
    Since when does a term like horseshoe become a part of basketball language. DA system typically uses a 4-out 1-in offense.

    My simple analysis. Lin was passive at times, although he produced. He needs to keep his dribble like Williams was doing to him. Chandler was out most of the key stretches. We had no one to bother Williams (then again, Williams is REALLY good). As far as offensive fluidity, there were many cases that Melo stayed on the weak side. He didn't mess-up the PnR. And, I thought I'd never say this, but Jeffries didn't play enough minutes. He plays good man-on-man defense, particularly with 3s and 4s, and good help defense. He anticipates and moves his feet and hustles. Got to give him is props for effort.

    I I think the Knicks will be peaking in 3 weeks. I'm not at all worried. They should play like a 3 or 4 seed. Hopefully the knicks can take the 6th seed at the very least (fifth seed will be great). They'll need to win 15 of 20 games or at least 11 of 15 games to make it close

  3. #33
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NY17KNICKS
    Thats Jay-z man
    I believe that was aimed at Mobb deep...and later in that song he dissed Nas. I dont like Jay-z but the Takeovers a classic, that whole CD's a classic

  4. #34
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    What I hate about Carmelo. The only thing about his game that he needs to change. Its not that he is a ball hog and ruins chemistry, it is not that he is out of shape or whatever, it is his frustration

    He gets, ANGERY, SO EASILY. I can't stand it. Look we can scream and get mad all we want, we are fans that is what we do.

    I know the refs made a ton of terrible calls last night, but that happens. You have to keep a level head and move on which is something Carmelo just doesn't do. He shoves guys, starts whacking getting fouls and T's.. causes turn overs, looses focus, and stops playing when something happens that he feels was either an unfair call or something happens that he doesn't like. ANd this wasn't just last night. He has been a Knick for an entire year

    There were a lot of games with some bad calls when he was injured. But did Lin give up? Did Lin loose his cool and his focus? NO. In fact you could make the argument that it even made him better.

    I know it is crazy and I know this is happening so fast but this season imo is do or die for Carmelo as a Knick.. If we continue to struggle with him on this team and we get outed in the first round of the play offs, trade him. I don't care what it is for just clear his salary from the books. We are now deeper than we were before we traded for him, and with his contract on the books we will most likely have to let Fields, JR Smith, Novak, Davis all go and possibly Shumpert next season when his contract is up. And to be honest, I'd rather keep all those guys, have some cap flexibility within the next 2 seasons and give Lin a contract that he deserves than keep Carmelo which we can most certainly do considering how much money he makes... Unless we see some massive improvement from him this season.

    And again, I am not basing this just on what I saw last night. I am going to give him time to adapt but at some point we can't keep making excuses for him. Why should we? Its been practically proven we were better when he didn't play. That could change, he could take us to the next level.. But honestly, he has been a Knick for an entire year and for the most part we have been terrible. We went on two stretches were we lost 9/10... Now we can say oh its because of this and that, D'Antoni's fault blabala. Lin came in and showed that this team is good enough to win, and get the wins that we should be winning.. And he did it with Jefferies, walker and fields in his starting Lin up for crying out loud.

    I know its a small sample.. But jeez.. From what I've seen, Lin should be the go to guy, he should be our closer and number 1 option. He is selfless, fearless, and makes everyone around him better...

    We should be emulating the Bulls. Build a deep team with the PG as the main go to option. That is our best chance for success.. A deep team that plays together...And Amar'e can be an upgraded Carlos Boozer.

  5. #35
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Dumbest post of the day!

    WTF are you talking about??? How is Melo disrupting the spacing? Please explain that one.

    He won't let go of his sweet spots??? Dude, you have no idea what you're saying. Honestly, I think you just started watching basetball. So you want to reduce Melo to a role player within a so called "system" you worship? lol

    You're questioning his discipline in the "system" when he only took 11 shots and pretty much overpassed the ball. You were on here no too long ago talking about how Melo needs to pass more and stop shooting so much. Oh man I can't wait to find one of your posts and expose you for a non-basketball understanding complaining fool.
    okay youre obviously mad and you nd to calm down. you sound hormonal. neway i can quote you saying you usually agree w me from a few wks back. n youre a little late. you were exposed the other night when i put your lack of understanding of chemistry regarding the pick n roll on blast for the forum to see. now your quoting yet another knowledgeable post from me n trying to make it out to be something it clearly is not. nice. you come off lame.

    d'antoni has been quoted saying melo doesnt understand spacing. i believe he doesnt understand the importance of it. when we were on our streak w lin guys stuck to the rules of the system and our offense looked awesome. yes. melo has to sacrifice some of his offense, stick to the spacing and play unselfishly. he is not comfy doing this yet n sometimes he still reverts back to isoing up and doing his own thing, which is not what this offense needs at all, especially now tht we have lin. melo needs to DEFER to lin. i'll say it again. MELO NDS TO DEFER TO LIN. he is the higher iq player and the key to this offense. take it from somebody who knows the game cause this is what you'll be hearing on tv from others who know it in the coming days. then you'll think back to when you were sonned in this post. son. please do not waste my time w any more of your nonsensical posting.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 21, 2012 at 22:03.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Yet you want him to "let go of his sweet spots" LOLOLOLOL!!!

    GTFOH with that crap. You've been exposed!
    melo clinging to his swt spots is what kills the flow of this offense. melo MUST sacrifice his game n play within the flow n concepts of mdas system. period. you sir sound like n f-ing moron.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 21, 2012 at 22:04.

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Melo needs to be more Shawn Marion like. The Matrix was a perfect fit in Dantoni's system, Imo they collapsed once they traded him for Shaq. He wasnt a great shooter but he was good enough where if he got open he could hit the 3. Melo's a better shooter then him, if anything he should embrace getting open looks instead of almost always taking shots in the face of the defense. Lets not even compare Melo and Marion defensively, I dont expect Carmelo to ever be that good defensively. I'd be happy if he played average defense

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    Melo needs to be more Shawn Marion like. The Matrix was a perfect fit in Dantoni's system, Imo they collapsed once they traded him for Shaq. He wasnt a great shooter but he was good enough where if he got open he could hit the 3. Melo's a better shooter then him, if anything he should embrace getting open looks instead of almost always taking shots in the face of the defense. Lets not even compare Melo and Marion defensively, I dont expect Carmelo to ever be that good defensively. I'd be happy if he played average defense
    Melo will never be play like Marion on offense.

    Melo does not move unless he has the ball. Marion never stops moving on offense.

    Melo thrives on iso plays. Marion is a catch-and-shoot player whose success on offense depends on good feed.

    But let's not forget that Melo is a much better scorer than Marion. The question is whether or not Melo is made for MDA's system.

  9. #39
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shaolin
    Since when does a term like horseshoe become a part of basketball language. DA system typically uses a 4-out 1-in offense.
    This is not rocket sicne, but basketball. I've been coaching this for years and visualising what is happening sometimes helps a lot. 4 out 1 in is what it is, but that's not precise enough, as 4 out 1 in could also mean a centre in high post position and the rest of the team being arranged in a rectangle around him.
    What we are playing is different, Chandler does not get the ball for a hand-off. He is much closer to the basket and Lin penetrates into the paint. What Lin still needs to learn is getting out of the paint again without giving up his dribble.

    I agree with you that Melo stayed on the weak side and tried to create space. But was he effective doing so? Did he look comfortable? It's not his game and it's not what he is good at.
    Last edited by pat; Feb 22, 2012 at 03:42.

  10. #40
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    Melo needs to be more Shawn Marion like. The Matrix was a perfect fit in Dantoni's system, Imo they collapsed once they traded him for Shaq. He wasnt a great shooter but he was good enough where if he got open he could hit the 3. Melo's a better shooter then him, if anything he should embrace getting open looks instead of almost always taking shots in the face of the defense. Lets not even compare Melo and Marion defensively, I dont expect Carmelo to ever be that good defensively. I'd be happy if he played average defense

    Thank you!

  11. #41
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    melo clinging to his swt spots is what kills the flow of this offense. melo MUST sacrifice his game n play within the flow n concepts of mdas system. period. you sir sound like n f-ing moron.
    If you watched the last game you would know this is EXACTLY what he did. Only 11 FGA! WTF are you talking about seriously????

  12. #42
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    If you watched the last game you would know this is EXACTLY what he did. Only 11 FGA! WTF are you talking about seriously????
    But he's still taking the game in his hands at times and isoing/ pounding the rock, which is not what this offense needs.. What are you not getting about that?

    I watch all the games nyk nyk, not live all the time. If I can't I always record and watch later.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    okay youre obviously mad and you nd to calm down. you sound hormonal. neway i can quote you saying you usually agree w me from a few wks back. n youre a little late. you were exposed the other night when i put your lack of understanding of chemistry regarding the pick n roll on blast for the forum to see. now your quoting yet another knowledgeable post from me n trying to make it out to be something it clearly is not. nice. you come off lame.

    d'antoni has been quoted saying melo doesnt understand spacing. i believe he doesnt understand the importance of it. when we were on our streak w lin guys stuck to the rules of the system and our offense looked awesome. yes. melo has to sacrifice some of his offense, stick to the spacing and play unselfishly. he is not comfy doing this yet n sometimes he still reverts back to isoing up and doing his own thing, which is not what this offense needs at all, especially now tht we have lin. melo needs to DEFER to lin. i'll say it again. MELO NDS TO DEFER TO LIN. he is the higher iq player and the key to this offense. take it from somebody who knows the game cause this is what you'll be hearing on tv from others who know it in the coming days. then you'll think back to when you were sonned in this post. son. please do not waste my time w any more of your nonsensical posting.
    You just continue to make a fool of yourself. How in the hell is Melo not comfy Playing unselfish when he's having a career year in assists? If Melo decides to ISO on an occassional play, why the hell would you comlain about that?? This is what he does best and in case you didn't know, ALL the top players in the league get a large share of ISO opportunities... WHY? Because they aren't your average players.

    KOBE
    DURANT
    ROSE
    PIERCE
    ZACH
    HOWARD
    GASOL
    GINOBLI
    LEBRON
    WADE...etc

    All these players WILL take advantage of their defenders by initiating an ISO. This has been going on for decades and it works because gifted players take advantage of their superior skill. Meanwhile, you can't see the value in it AT ALL. SMH

    Then you have the balls to say that's not what the offense needs! Lin has been pretty much doing that at the end of games for us these past 2 weeks in case you didn't know. DID YOU REALIZE THAT???

    IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A CLUTCH PLAYER TO CLOSE OUT QUARTERS AND GAMES FOR YOU WHEN NEEDED. THIS OFFENSE IS NOT A WELL-OILED MACHINE, SO THERE WILL BE TIMES WHEN MELO (one of the best closers period) WILL NEED TO DO WHT HE DOES.

    Yeah but in your fantasy world, everyone should get the oppportunity put the team on their back. That's not how this game works. It's funny too because you were probably with everyone else in the world that felt Lebron needed to step his game up in the 4th qtrs. See what I just did?

    Don't ever come at me like I don't know this sport I LOVE.

    Over.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    But he's still taking the game in his hands at times and isoing/ pounding the rock, which is not what this offense needs.. What are you not getting about that?

    I watch all the games nyk nyk, not live all the time. If I can't I always record and watch later.
    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    omg!! Lin is a friggin beeast!

    cleared everyone out and worked chris barnes ass over gd!
    More of your bias.

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    melo clinging to his swt spots is what kills the flow of this offense. melo MUST sacrifice his game n play within the flow n concepts of mdas system. period. you sir sound like n f-ing moron.
    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Seriously..

    Tell me why you trust Lin smh?? He sucks dude.


    Neway.. this offense is back.

    We can run our stuff now with proper flow and movement. Saw all I needed to see against the Bulls. We got what ever we wanted against their very good defense. We just didn't play enough defense of our own. That will be the next step towards starting to get W's against good teams.

    Melo was running the pick and roll with Chandler numerous times in that game w positive effect. Really he'd be stupid not to call for a pick from Chandler on almost every possession. The D can't stop it and he so elusive on his own that the pick just makes things uber easy for him. That play should be our bread and butter.

    Even though we lost, there were many positive things to take away from the game last night.
    I'm just gonna Ja Rule you man. lol

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