We should trade Amare for Pau Gasol!
We should trade Amare for David Lee!
We should trade Amare for Zach Randolph!
We should trade Amare for Luis Scola
We shouldn't trade Amare! He will find his place here just wait!
The thread title should be wich PF who we already kicked out of town would you rather have over Stat.
Sadly Stat is a perfect fit because this is a Mike D'antoni run team this is the type of offense he SHOULD be thriving in.. the team and system have nothing to do wiht his lack of success.. its him.. He has completely gone away from any of his post game except a fade away. I havnt seen him use his best move in a long time where he drives the baseline and almost goes under the backboard and lays it in with power. He is settling for Elbow jumpers off screens like hes a SF. He doesnt box out or fight for rebounds and he just looks out of it.
im going to go into this allstar break hoping D'antoni can put together the peices and have them playing their parts within the offense and succeeding as teammates. the 5 games after the break will tell us alot about wether this team will push forward and be contenders or ed to be stripped of a few parts and reworked for the future.
Last edited by Throwback33; Feb 24, 2012 at 08:31. Reason: mistake
I am wondering if Amare is injured or if he is just in decline. He has never been a great defensive player but this year, he appears to be unable to move laterally and players go right around him. The other thing I see is an inability to elevate---something I didn't see last year.
I wouldn't mind seeing a more defensive minded player in Stoudamires position.
Amare had a pretty decent game vs MIA considering how many times he got the ball, he actually played decent D and rebounded not to mention if he can find himself he blows all those guys out the water.
Just relax no trades are happening support the players on your team and be thankful this isn't the same team NY had in 06
I love Amar'e and I think he fits quite well, except for the fact that his D is atrocious. The thing is that none of the guys mentioned play D either. We need a guy that can board and defend. I think Jorts coming off the bench may be able to fill that role nicely.
somehow I cannot post a big thread. so I made some research and saw why Knicks lost 3 games after Amar'e and 'Melo came back in, with Baron Davis and JR Smith added in, and Shumpert/Walker out for injuries.
if someone'd post a big thread for me and let guys discuss, that'd be great.
Why is Knicks slowing down… L to Hornets, Nets, Heat
After the rotation is adding: Baron Davis, Carmelo Anthony, JR Smith, Stoudemire.
Injuring: Iman Shumpert, Billy Walker
1. Lin’s game intensity, minutes, wear, defense
a. Lin got 11 games from nowhere, running 30+ minutes. It’s getting intense for him to drive the ball with Focused defenders. He has all the attentions, in court, in team, and in media, while all the PGs want to burn him for their benefits.
b. In additions He is not great in defense. He does do good in steals and drawing Offensive fouls, but usually he gets dizzy after his guy moves several screens and/or circles around the whole court. He let goes many open 3s. of course, better than open 2s, and 3s have lower probabilities to get in……
2. Shumpert’s Defensive ability
a. He can save Lin’s butt when Lin is on court with fully-loaded PG, for example, Calderon and the last minute dunk before Lin’s 2+1 game-tying bucket
b. Not Great, but solid, good skills with shooting J and invading to the paint. i.e. when he was vs. Kobe Bryant
3. Low post ‘melo and Jeremy Lin’s turnovers
a. When Melo sleeps around the side 3-pt lines, Lin has no roads to crush into, because melo’s defenders would be 1 step away from melo, or half a step away from the paint to help blocking penetration. When Melo is waiting for 1v1, Lin has to give that to Melo, because he cannot start an offense when the paint is crowded.
4. Stat = Richard Hamilton?
a. Drafted profile: 245lb. Now: 260lb. Richard Hamilton: 193lb. Reggie Miller: 200lbs. Chase Budinger, who also likes the Hamilton style catch-n-shoot: 215lbs. You think that 260lb body really works that well with catch-n-shoot? Even Dirk Nowitzki is only 245lbs, like when Stats was drafted. His large body isn’t disadvantageous, but it depends on what position is he acting……C-positioned guys, such as Erick Dampier and Andrew Bogut are both in the 260lbs range. So shouldn’t stats change his mind of doing something that is more about the interior offense?
b. Stats is supposed to play like he has Felton last year….. He has Lin to feed him the ball now, and do those dunks, layups that he is good at, maybe some perimeter J, but those Hamilton moves weren’t great as I said. So were his 3 attempts. He came into the league as a fast version of C and a heavier PF. Do the things he does the best: Make a EXCELLENT screen, cut down and put-it-in. His screens are not sloppy… the PG defender literally follows the PG. screen didn’t help enough to cause defense to have tensions.
5. Star power vs. drawing-foul power
a. Anthony goes for shots with star power. His physical prowess, the ridiculousness of him, being able to get shots under pressure, and when other do layups on easy ones, he can probably get an easy dunk. It does mean that… He’s good. It doesn’t mean his shot selections are excellent, though, just because he makes shots. Most the time, he would be surrounded by a defender or defenders. The good thing about star-power, is that sometimes you get double teamed. That’s when the ball movement helps to find the open man, and the shots should be made w/o much defense. He wasn’t really double teamed by anybody, though he probably gets teams’ best swingman defender….
b. Lin goes with drawing-foul power. I’m sure lots of you can remember when he throws himself into the painted area, and lots of those shots were in the top plays for the day, for Jeremy Lin’s top 10 plays, etc. While he gets those shots, he gets fouled for around 3-5 times, and get 2+1s, and some pairs of FT. While his stardom doesn’t include much physical advantage (not saying he doesn’t have physical strength), his foul-making nature helps him to score on the FT line
6. Davis not fully recovered
a. His penetrations are not excellent yet, still stumbling. His alley-oops with JR Smith really are impressive, but aside from those? Not much production. His 212lbs body looks stronger than Lin’s 200lbs, and he should have a better physical strength for him to enter the paint and shoot/pass while inside.
7. JR’s cool singles
a. You cannot blame JR for the game with Mavs, for making ridiculous 3s, and the decisive two pts that was assisted by Lin. His physical is great. JR out of bench to Lin, is almost like Jason Richardson to Nash in Phoenix Suns. His 6-6 height and 220lbs doesn’t slow him down at all. he is a fast baller, excellent shooter. However, almost everybody knows that he is double-edged. He sometimes goes solo, maybe creates a play with the teammate-in-paint, or makes a shot himself. He actually seems to pass with better situations than Melo. But… still, it somewhat interferes with the movement of ball and players to create space & shoot more effectively.
How did Knicks win the games, since the emergence of Lin?
1. Leadership/scorer role
a. I don’t care what people say, but when any team wins an NBA game, the lead scorer usually gets the appraisal. Those shots are not easy, and many can go into the top 10 plays for the day, because it was not like Yao Ming’s over-head easy dunks. And I haven’t mentioned his 8+ average in assists.
a. Have you seen Novak really making many shots WITH defenders? I mean, ok, with Minnesota that time, he had to do that for the game-tying three. The fact that Novak is getting more points, means he is taking more shots. while the other 4 teammates create situations suitable for Novak to hit the 44% trigger, It just means that Novak now gets lots of more open spaces (including the 3s he did not make, but still the same mechanisms, isn’t it?). While Novak gets 12pts out of 2/23/12 game with Heat, Lin wasn’t gaining many assists. Why? Because Novak didn’t seem to get assists from Lin, the buddy that assisted him so much, with 19pts avg in Utah & Net’s games.
3. Cuts with Chandler
a. You got Amar’e and Chandler, cool. Surprising enough, they don’t sound like Yao, Gasol, or the leading 4/5 positions, who are excellent in working the defense while facing behind the arc. They’re so-so. Or just once for a long time. So the cuts with Stats/Chandler are very important. Well, to cut, you ought to have the paint looking not crowded, right?
4. JR’s penetration
a. His penetration is much faster than Melo. He usually attracts double-team, and he kicks out very quickly when that happens.
5. Better shot selection
a. Good example: Plays against LA Lakers, high ball movement/location rotation
b. Bad example: Plays against Miami Heat/stats & anthony do Jumpers, few open opportunities for easy buckets.
6. Rotation with NO STARS, but specialists
a. AKA: Bill Walker, Jefferies, Fields, Novak, Chandler, Shumpert
b. Shots have 3 types: Wise shots, Spur-of-Moment do-it-myself shots, and Before-the-buzzer shots.
c. Because these guys all lack star powers, they tend to shoot much less with the spur of moment. Before the buzzer is typically not often, so most of the shots they took, are wise shots. Wise shots from low PER players, can indeed have similar or better overall effects to a team with starpowers….
Well first of all: I think he definitely 'fits in'.
He's played under D'Antoni before in Phoenix and was pretty good. He's been pretty good offensively last season in New York under D'Antoni.
I think him and Chandler on the same frontcourt is not as much of an issue as the media say. Tyson scores of alley oops, free throws or putbacks, while Amar'e scores of the elbow-jumper, penetration, free throws, putbacks AND probably his most important weapon (but never utilized this season) the pick and roll.
As we can see, Tyson's and Amare's scoring preferences don't overlap each other, so they should definitely be able to co-exist.
Having said that: I'd trade Amar'e for Kevin Love in a heartbeat. Love is my favourite PF in the league right now and arguably the best 4 alongside Blake Griffin.
Lamarcus Aldridge is another good PF.
None of these 3 are available though so we can end the discussion right here.
Never been a fan of Pau Gasol and I don't think he'S better than Amar'e, on top of that his game is dreadful to watch.
Z-Bo is a great rebounder, but also a poor defender and a ballhog, he wants 20-25 shot attempts per game or he'll get mad - been here, done that.
And Scola? I mean seriously?.....
It's really amazing how far from grace Amare has fallen since last season. He came here obviously with the lure of more money but he gave us every penny worth with his production. He was the toast of the town and thrived off the limelight and became the leader of the up and coming Knicks. The city was his.
Fast forward one year and he's nothing more than a piece of the puzzle. Melo comes here and is more celebrated. Lin breaks out and is the face of the franchise.
STAT is now the 3rd or 4th most talked about player on the team. It's probably someting like LIN, Melo, TC then STAT. This has to be affecting him mentally. Usually, these things happen over time as a player gets older and new guys come in. We see flashes of the old STAT at times proving he CAN still produce at a high level but for some reason he just isn't. Is it possible he's really irritated about losing all his fanfare? Has he lost motivation to give 100%?
Whatever the reason for his drop in production, trading him isn't the answer right now. We should give him the opportunity to play through this AND if there is a coaching change you'd wanna allow the next coach an opportunity to get him back to his old self before exploring any trades. Also, STAT has very little value right now with that huge uninsured contract and his subpar scoring, rebounding and defense.
Edit: Another thing we have to think about is how Antoni's "system" doesn't highlight any 1 player. Maybe as much as STAT wants to play better, he doesn't get the amount of touches neccessary to produce consistently. Still, this doesn't excuse him from giving more effort on defense and boarding.
Last edited by nyk_nyk; Feb 27, 2012 at 09:23.
no gm would trade a slumping all star....no fan should want a slumping all star traded....for OBVIOUS reasons
what about Greg Oden for Statosphere? thats how bad we shold want him gone
and those who said that how can he be so wonderful last year and putrid this year its because hes moved careers, he got his 100 million and New York cred to start working on fashion food and other metrosexual venues. he only hustle last year to establish himself on the New York scene. now he got it he can live without a championship in NBA because he already has a bronze medal from Olympics. if he does get one, great let some other bust butt for it. he done here, got his money like i said all alone he is the same as LeBron only good thing about leBron is he didnt cost us 100 mil. JR Reid put more heart and effort in Knicks uniform than this phony ever will.
The Knicks need a physical power forward/enforcer out there. They need someone that can retaliate if our guys get abused on the floor. If only we can resurrect C. Oakley and A. Mason, it would be perfect.