This is what I was talking about

iSaYughh

Starter
I am not trying to be pessimistic but Miami is going to be representing the East in the NBA finals for the next 5 or 6 years.How can anyone stop a team that has 2 of the top greatest players in NBA history plus plays defense like the Pistons of the late 80's/early 90's?

Unless the Knicks trade Amar'e for P.Gasol or Carmelo does more than just score or Mike D'antoni is replaced by Phil Jackson the Knicks aren't going to beat Miami in a seven game series.

After how the Heat manhandled the Knicks in the second half my confidence for the Knicks being a true contender in the next few years went down.The biggest mistake that David Stern ever made was allowing Lebron and Bosh to team up with Wade. Now he has to deal with 29 NBA teams being the underdog for a long time.

Not to derail the good thread, but this is pretty much true. And while the pts of RED and others responding are valid and interesting, there's an overriding trusim which I think is in play: when you are facing a juggernaut, and you are simply an inferior team, your shit isn't going to look good, no matter what you do.

Not unlike how we have always looked so janky on defense, especially on the frontcourt, till, surprise surprise....we actually bring in bona fide legitimate NBA center who is good.

What this thread really shows is we need adjustments to look better, at the end of the day. And all we can be asked to do is get better, whether it's good enough or not at the end of the day. MDA is too intelligent a basketball mind in my opinion to not make those adjustments, and field an offense/team that is maximized for what lays ahead in the playoffs. In the meantime, it'll be like it's been all season: steps in the right direction, sometimes two at the expense of taking one back first.

*BUT*, putting the pom poms down, and ending the foolishness of calling Lebron (or Wade) "chokes".....MIA is going to have the best two in the league, by a wide margin, and they got them at premium discounts (along with Bosh) which gives MIA the franchise an edge that is difficult to overstate.

With these truths in place, it's very difficult for any franchise to legitimately compete in my opinion, if they make *any* sub-optimal moves that can't be undone.

This is the main reason the Melo deal was so jank, and a total joke. And why STAT's play is so deeply alarming.

Whether the Melo deal was good is actually irrelevant. We didn't negotiate nor approach the deal shrewdly, and it's clear that whatever shrewdness and negotiating prowess Walsh was displaying to get the *best* deal, and thus the *right* deal, was negated when Dolan put his paw prints all over it.

It's laughable we have people in denial about this, and just wanna go ad nauseum saying that the deal was good because we got the best player, and make these overly detailed player comparisons rationalizing why it was really OK we threw in Gallo, Moz, Felton etc.

The second unfortunate reality we're going to have to deal with is that even when STAT played like the STAT of last year, he was a monumental defensive liability and didn't rebound.

When you splash your max on players they need either fit like a mother****ing glove, or have no major deficiencies. Arguably, Amare did fit like a glove....until the Melo deal, which in itself is pause for the concern.

Barring Lin continues to play at an ethereal level (and it's crazy that so many just had this expectation that he would, especially in his first yr really playing a NBA season), and barring Amare and Melo becoming players they never really have actually been, and have certainly have never been with us, we're in for a world of hurt.

Our one saving grace, IMO, is going back to the up tempo pace we set last year, but with the additional talent, defensive play, and overall commitment to defense.

It's that style that let us compete with teams we really had no business competing with or beating; and despite the broomstick sweep, it's the only reason we run BOS ragged to their least breath and nanosecond of losing for two games, despite how deeply flawed we were as a team at that time.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
all true but none of this explains the lack of specific game planning for STAT & Melo. STAT stats look putrid, and we can't say our approach features our stars.

Lin played really bad, and MIA swarmed our players and smothered them from the start with DPOY-type defense. Players just aren't going to flourish in such a spot.

Unless your individual players display exemplary effort and game. This, IMO, is what legit defines a "superstar". They can get their eats, and will a team, even if the kitchen is filled with smoke. Melo just isn't getting it done; and I think him just getting healthy and placed into our ever-revolving merry go round of players is the reason why....vs him sucking. I think his NBA DNA is one where he can and will do what it takes. And so I put more of an onus on MDA getting things to where that will happen.

I agree it's paramount our stars are featured. But I don't see why we should think the team isn't aware of that, or moving in that direction. Lin is so new, Amare and Melo are still adjusting with each other, Melo just got back from injury...yadda yadda.

It's getting old, and I hate excuses, but it is what it is. Can we just have a reasonably set roster for a couple months one time.....:pray:
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
THIS We just played the heat and all the attention goes to how bad Lin played? what about our "stars" and the empty stats they put up. They been in this situation before, Lin and chandler were having bad games it was time for the stars to check in and help the team.

Did you read the OP?
 
Great thread. As I said last night.

Lins confidence was shook from the start on the strip by Chalmers. He didnt look comfortable all game after that. I hope this isnt a long term thing. He's going to need his confidence.

MDA could have done somethings to alleviate the pressure the kid felt, but I now feel he needed to go through this. He needs the game experience. He'll now need to adjust accordingly.

Bosh is what killed us this game. You can not let the entire big three get off. Bosh is the easiest to handle so all efforts should have to be taken to slow him down.

Some saw us play zone. I didnt. Maybe because I'm sick as a dog. For a team that struggles so mightily against zone defense not to play any is on the coach. Down 4 after halftime would have been the optimum time to spring it on them. Some say we havent practiced the zone in order to implement it. Hogwash. I could grab 5 guys off this board go down to the park and run a 3-2 or 2-3 zone. Effectively. This is on the coach.

STAT was playing hard and got less run than anyone expected. Bosh cant handle him and neither can Haslem or Anthony. You have to feature STAT if you want to win this game. This is on the coach.

Melo played hard wasnt getting any calls. Again he wasnt featured. This is on the coach.

IMHO MDA does not make adjustments. I've said it before he has to do things game by game quarter by quarter to positively effect the outcomes. Lin is not going to be able to carry this team, but he can be a major cog in a serious playoff run if the entire team is coached up...
 
Adjusting is one of his biggest weaknesses...

After reading the daily news paper the other day…a journalist ask the coach was he worried that Melo might mess up the chemistry since Lin started at the point. The coach said something like “ Melo has to be Melo, all I tell him is attack and don’t worry about fitting in…I don’t even know what fitting in means"...

LOL and smfh.
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
Did you read the OP?
Yes i understand the OP i read it completely agree with it stat&melo not being featured is system not running specific plays yes i get it, but i wasn't commenting on the OP's essay i was commenting on a statement someone posted in the OP's thread about our players performance, Running specific offensive plays has nothing to do with not grabbing rebounds, etc. Melo's been in this situation before you think there was a specific game plan vs Celtics in the playoff's in game 2 in the finals? no it was give the ball to melo and get out the way and the man still managed to put up 42/17 rebs, as a star in this league it's your job to pick your team up when things clearly aren't going right, or at least show some leadership and play hard.
 
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Rebounds require proper positioning around the boards. Most times most of the players are spaced around the parimeter...then they crash boards when a long range shot is fired. Chances of rebounding in this fashion is slim...as our players are boxed out by the time they collapse to the basket. Besides, rebounding takes a lot of strength too. When you play a fast pace game like the Knicks...energy levels deplete faster and timing is much harder to come by.This is what I see as far as our boards is concern... A sapped player will hardly get you great results.

idk, perhaps the coach thinks he has track and field athletes on his team. Maybe he'll do much more better coaching in that sport.
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
Stephen A Just interviewed Melo on TV and said the exact same thing I said in the OP. Exact same thing.

Hope someone can post that link.

Anyway can you believe STAT took 1 shot in the 2nd half?
Ill look into the link thing, but yes i can believe stat took 1 shot in the 2nd half they dont pass the ball to him what so ever, chandler see's more touches than stat.

I cant believe he had 5 rebs though he was a rebound machine vs the Hawks i dont know what happened vs the heat, maybe he was tired?
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
@red what stephen A. smith is saying, yes the same thing you stated in OP. Stephen is saying everything revolves around dwade, and lebron and Melo and Stat aren't the Priorities they should be.

It comes down to coaching IMO. Dantoni does not want the offense ran through amare or melo he wants the offense ran through LIN he wants the ball in lin's hands to make the decisions. Which leads to the discussion on can this Lin/melo thing work together. Lin struggled to get the ball to the stars last night vs the Heat, but i feel with more time and practice they can make it work.

Stephen A stated that melo should be the go to guy within 12 mins in the 4th quarter, but does that honestly make this team better. basically he's saying Lin and everyone else needs to defer to Melo and let him take over, does doing that disrupt the offense? its still to early to judge the team they need more practice.
 
well. Melo's usage rate is as high as Kobe in terms of a swingman, but his contributions are more singular than kobe. Kobe can create lots of assist, but not melo
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
@red what stephen A. smith is saying, yes the same thing you stated in OP. Stephen is saying everything revolves around dwade, and lebron and Melo and Stat aren't the Priorities they should be.

It comes down to coaching IMO. Dantoni does not want the offense ran through amare or melo he wants the offense ran through LIN he wants the ball in lin's hands to make the decisions. Which leads to the discussion on can this Lin/melo thing work together. Lin struggled to get the ball to the stars last night vs the Heat, but i feel with more time and practice they can make it work.

Stephen A stated that melo should be the go to guy within 12 mins in the 4th quarter, but does that honestly make this team better. basically he's saying Lin and everyone else needs to defer to Melo and let him take over, does doing that disrupt the offense? its still to early to judge the team they need more practice.

he said play off Melo and play through Melo not give it to Melo and move thats where things go wrong

the fact is D'Antoni rather play through Lin/Chandler/Fields then STAT/Melo period, the fact that they both played within the system last night and still weren't fully utilized is a problem. When STAT is flowing on O he defends his ass off, when Melo is hot there's no stopping him

At the end of the day everyone wants of role players to be stars and our stars to be role players
 

Red

TYPE-A
@red what stephen A. smith is saying, yes the same thing you stated in OP. Stephen is saying everything revolves around dwade, and lebron and Melo and Stat aren't the Priorities they should be.

It comes down to coaching IMO. Dantoni does not want the offense ran through amare or melo he wants the offense ran through LIN he wants the ball in lin's hands to make the decisions. Which leads to the discussion on can this Lin/melo thing work together. Lin struggled to get the ball to the stars last night vs the Heat, but i feel with more time and practice they can make it work.

Stephen A stated that melo should be the go to guy within 12 mins in the 4th quarter, but does that honestly make this team better. basically he's saying Lin and everyone else needs to defer to Melo and let him take over, does doing that disrupt the offense? its still to early to judge the team they need more practice.

Of course, we've seen it. But over this break and from now on we need to cut the bullshit and understand it's time to purposely feature Melo. Develop off of that but our primary focus has to be him. We plan for contingencies IF a team can stop that, then we go to STAT and so on.

Theres nothing wrong with this approach, no one is saying others can't get involved. But the identity needs to be formed so we can at the least attempt to perfect that. D'Antoni must give in or he's out. That's just the truth.


he said play off Melo and play through Melo not give it to Melo and move thats where things go wrong

the fact is D'Antoni rather play through Lin/Chandler/Fields then STAT/Melo period, the fact that they both played within the system last night and still weren't fully utilized is a problem. When STAT is flowing on O he defends his ass off, when Melo is hot there's no stopping him

At the end of the day everyone wants of role players to be stars and our stars to be role players

:thumbsup: Great post, my new sig quote
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
he said play off Melo and play through Melo not give it to Melo and move thats where things go wrong

the fact is D'Antoni rather play through Lin/Chandler/Fields then STAT/Melo period, the fact that they both played within the system last night and still weren't fully utilized is a problem. When STAT is flowing on O he defends his ass off, when Melo is hot there's no stopping him

At the end of the day everyone wants of role players to be stars and our stars to be role players
Do you think MDA is like Karl, where he just has no idea on how to incorporate melo within the offense, so they instead just give him the ball in his sweet spot and just clear out, there hasn't been one designed play for Melo that iv'e seen yet. No coming off curls no nothing.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Do you think MDA is like Karl, where he just has no idea on how to incorporate melo within the offense, so they instead just give him the ball in his sweet spot and just clear out, there hasn't been one designed play for Melo that iv'e seen yet. No coming off curls no nothing.

Karl knew how to use Melo, evidence by all their success, the fact is D'Antoni wants Melo to catch and drive or catch and shoot right away if nothing is there pass the ball BUT Melo has to read the D because defenses adjust to him more than Landry, I rarely see picks set for him or special designed plays which is why you see iso's a lot with him

As for STAT I just think he needs to be the focal point or Nash to be most effective
 

smokes

Huge Member
Karl knew how to use Melo, evidence by all their success, the fact is D'Antoni wants Melo to catch and drive or catch and shoot right away if nothing is there pass the ball BUT Melo has to read the D because defenses adjust to him more than Landry, I rarely see picks set for him or special designed plays which is why you see iso's a lot with him

As for STAT I just think he needs to be the focal point or Nash to be most effective

What I don't get is why we're going to Melo with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. We should be going to him with 8-10 seconds left if nothing has presented itself and then letting him get to work. We waste a lot of possessions that way. 8 seconds is more than long enough for a player of Melo's quality to get a good shot (for him) off.

If last nights game didn't show the difference between a flowing offense (first half) and a ball-stopping offense (second half) I don't know what does.

I should add its not just Melo. Last night JR Smith, Lin, STAT, Baron Davis were all going one on one with their defenders with 15+ seconds on the clock. I don't know what school of winning team basketball promotes this kind of offense but I don't find it very appealing.
 
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CA7

Scoring Champ
What I don't get is why we're going to Melo with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. We should be going to him with 8-10 seconds left if nothing has presented itself and then letting him get to work. We waste a lot of possessions that way. 8 seconds is more than long enough for a player of Melo's quality to get a good shot (for him) off.

If last nights game didn't show the difference between a flowing offense (first half) and a ball-stopping offense (second half) I don't know what does.

I should add its not just Melo. Last night JR Smith, Lin, STAT, Baron Davis were all going one on one with their defenders with 15+ seconds on the clock. I don't know what school of winning team basketball promotes this kind of offense but I don't find it very appealing.

yeah I agree no need to go to Melo for an iso at 18 unless where down 20 in the 4th and need to get points

the fact that Lin couldn't get anywhere is why so much iso took place, he started going one on one and then everyone did

I put this on D'Antoni because he made no adjustments
 

smokes

Huge Member
yeah I agree no need to go to Melo for an iso at 18 unless where down 20 in the 4th and need to get points

the fact that Lin couldn't get anywhere is why so much iso took place, he started going one on one and then everyone did

I put this on D'Antoni because he made no adjustments

To be honest if we're down 20 in the 4th we should just have Lin Smith Melo Novak all bombing 3 pointers.

I dunno what happened though really.

First half Lin struggled but we kept moving the ball and kept the game close. Most of Amare and Melo's points came from close range getting to the hoop. Second half it all fell apart. Suddenly all these players who were involved in the offense in the first half were just settling for jumpshots. Why the change in emphasis? Things were working for us in the first half we were down 4 points and if we didn't turn the ball over a stupid amount we would have easily been winning.

Maybe they wanted to take the pressure off Lin by having him be less aggressive while trying to create? IDK but whatever it was didn't work and we should know by now that the kind of basketball we played in the second half vs Miami (we kinda did the same against Atlanta in the second half hence why the ridiculous blowout didn't end up as one), this shit simply doesn't cut it, it's the very same reason we went like 8-15 or w/e it was to start the season.
 
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