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Thread: This is what I was talking about

  1. #16
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    I was just talking about this issue with a friend yesterday. All good points RED.

    There has always been a structure in basketball where there's a #1 option and so on. I don't mind the promotion of constant ball movement, but you HAVE to feature your best players and let the role players feed off that. I get that anyone in this "system" can have a great game, but IMO that's just too random and lends itself to fans and even Antoni questioning the identity of the team.

    Teams acquire star players for a reason. TO CARRY THE TEAM AND BE THE LEADERS. This is why they get paid the way they do. I mentioned to my friend you could make a case that an Antoni roster doesn't need any superstar players. Why take up cap space on a superstar when they'll be asked to perform just like the other guys? Your best player(s) have to get the most touches simply because they are capable of putting the most pressure on the opposition.

    Amare took only 7 shots last night! I know he's been subpar this season but he's still part of the big 3 right? You just can't have games where a player of his caliber only attempts 7 fgs. The per quarter average on that is just inexcusable. I'll admit part of that is Amare's aggressiveness and part of it is non-awareness by Antoni. How many times have you heard a good coach say "we need to get player x more involved"? Well, Antoni doesn’t think that way because his "system" works when shots are made, no matter who is taking them.

    Last night it didn't look like we had a clear plan on how to attack the Heat. It was just the usual ball movement until you find an open shooter. Against a team that good you need to offset their two best players with your two best. Wade, Bron and Bosh were featured while our top guys were dissolved in the team game.

    Once again, not totally bashing the constant ball movement approach, just feel it isn't the best approach for every opponent.

    James - 16fga
    Bosh - 17fga
    Wade - 22fga
    TOTAL = 55

    Melo - 20fga
    STAT - 7fga
    Fields - 9fga
    Smith - 11fga
    Lin - 11fga
    TOTAL = 58

    NO TEAM IDENTITY FOR US


    One could argue it is a coach's fiduciary responsibility to use the assets (players) in a manner equivalent to their contract. They are the highest paid for a reason, and to have a coach that can't utilize them as a result of his approach is counterintuitive.

    I think we all believed that Mike the offensive genius would incorporate a game plan structured around Melo because he's our best offensive player. And its safe to say we haven't witnessed that yet. Even in wins. At least not consistently.

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    You guys do understand that Miami is one of the hottest teams right now at the peak of a win streak and almost universally considered as the championship favorite?

    They make a lot of teams look really really bad. That is what happens when you lose. You look bad. They played their A game and considering how hot they were late, there is probably no team in the league that could have stopped them tonight when there were that motivated.

    I think the key was Bosh. When 2 of the 3 are playing good, you have a chance. When all 3 are going off like yesterday, I doubt any team in the league would look good against that.

    We've got half the season left to mesh and get into shape. Is there anyone out that that thinks the Knicks were already prepared to contend for the championship? Good teams take work. Its been proven over and over. Our team has been thrown together last minute with a ton of injuries slowing things down even more. Have some damn patience.

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    Originally Posted by Dzwonsson
    Lintendo doesn't have any playoff experience, moreover, despite playing his sophomore year he's practically still a rookie. Last night he played against the most athletic defenders in the NBA including a pair of TOP 5 league's players. I cannot blame Jeremy, he was just a young kiddo thrown into a stars game.

    But, what I can't understand is our stars performance, our primary scorer shooting 35% and our superstar power forward grabbing just 5 boards. I was also disappointed by Baron's game. I know he didn't play in months, but he's a veteran point guard with plenty of playoff experience, he should be there to coordinate our offense when Lin wasn't able to.

    But, what made me just sick, was our laziness. We didn't run the court at all, did you see how many fast break points Miami got? Where is the SSOL? Heat were quicker, stronger and more motivated. We looked just lazy.
    THIS We just played the heat and all the attention goes to how bad Lin played? what about our "stars" and the empty stats they put up. They been in this situation before, Lin and chandler were having bad games it was time for the stars to check in and help the team.

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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    You guys do understand that Miami is one of the hottest teams right now at the peak of a win streak and almost universally considered as the championship favorite?

    They make a lot of teams look really really bad. That is what happens when you lose. You look bad. They played their A game and considering how hot they were late, there is probably no team in the league that could have stopped them tonight when there were that motivated.

    I think the key was Bosh. When 2 of the 3 are playing good, you have a chance. When all 3 are going off like yesterday, I doubt any team in the league would look good against that.

    We've got half the season left to mesh and get into shape. Is there anyone out that that thinks the Knicks were already prepared to contend for the championship? Good teams take work. Its been proven over and over. Our team has been thrown together last minute with a ton of injuries slowing things down even more. Have some damn patience.
    all true but none of this explains the lack of specific game planning for STAT & Melo. STAT stats look putrid, and we can't say our approach features our stars.

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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    You guys do understand that Miami is one of the hottest teams right now at the peak of a win streak and almost universally considered as the championship favorite?

    They make a lot of teams look really really bad. That is what happens when you lose. You look bad. They played their A game and considering how hot they were late, there is probably no team in the league that could have stopped them tonight when there were that motivated.

    I think the key was Bosh. When 2 of the 3 are playing good, you have a chance. When all 3 are going off like yesterday, I doubt any team in the league would look good against that.

    We've got half the season left to mesh and get into shape. Is there anyone out that that thinks the Knicks were already prepared to contend for the championship? Good teams take work. Its been proven over and over. Our team has been thrown together last minute with a ton of injuries slowing things down even more. Have some damn patience.
    But, it's not about the lost tonight persay, it's been going on all year, we need a bucket, and we have no plays to get our stars any kind of good looks.It looks like anarchy out there, this should never happen, with the talent level we have now.He has his PG, so he has no more excuses, if he doesn't realize, it's a players league, and you have to feature your stars, he's and retard and has to go.

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    I am not trying to be pessimistic but Miami is going to be representing the East in the NBA finals for the next 5 or 6 years.How can anyone stop a team that has 2 of the top greatest players in NBA history plus plays defense like the Pistons of the late 80's/early 90's?

    Unless the Knicks trade Amar'e for P.Gasol or Carmelo does more than just score or Mike D'antoni is replaced by Phil Jackson the Knicks aren't going to beat Miami in a seven game series.

    After how the Heat manhandled the Knicks in the second half my confidence for the Knicks being a true contender in the next few years went down.The biggest mistake that David Stern ever made was allowing Lebron and Bosh to team up with Wade. Now he has to deal with 29 NBA teams being the underdog for a long time.
    Not to derail the good thread, but this is pretty much true. And while the pts of RED and others responding are valid and interesting, there's an overriding trusim which I think is in play: when you are facing a juggernaut, and you are simply an inferior team, your **** isn't going to look good, no matter what you do.

    Not unlike how we have always looked so janky on defense, especially on the frontcourt, till, surprise surprise....we actually bring in bona fide legitimate NBA center who is good.

    What this thread really shows is we need adjustments to look better, at the end of the day. And all we can be asked to do is get better, whether it's good enough or not at the end of the day. MDA is too intelligent a basketball mind in my opinion to not make those adjustments, and field an offense/team that is maximized for what lays ahead in the playoffs. In the meantime, it'll be like it's been all season: steps in the right direction, sometimes two at the expense of taking one back first.

    *BUT*, putting the pom poms down, and ending the foolishness of calling Lebron (or Wade) "chokes".....MIA is going to have the best two in the league, by a wide margin, and they got them at premium discounts (along with Bosh) which gives MIA the franchise an edge that is difficult to overstate.

    With these truths in place, it's very difficult for any franchise to legitimately compete in my opinion, if they make *any* sub-optimal moves that can't be undone.

    This is the main reason the Melo deal was so jank, and a total joke. And why STAT's play is so deeply alarming.

    Whether the Melo deal was good is actually irrelevant. We didn't negotiate nor approach the deal shrewdly, and it's clear that whatever shrewdness and negotiating prowess Walsh was displaying to get the *best* deal, and thus the *right* deal, was negated when Dolan put his paw prints all over it.

    It's laughable we have people in denial about this, and just wanna go ad nauseum saying that the deal was good because we got the best player, and make these overly detailed player comparisons rationalizing why it was really OK we threw in Gallo, Moz, Felton etc.

    The second unfortunate reality we're going to have to deal with is that even when STAT played like the STAT of last year, he was a monumental defensive liability and didn't rebound.

    When you splash your max on players they need either fit like a mother****ing glove, or have no major deficiencies. Arguably, Amare did fit like a glove....until the Melo deal, which in itself is pause for the concern.

    Barring Lin continues to play at an ethereal level (and it's crazy that so many just had this expectation that he would, especially in his first yr really playing a NBA season), and barring Amare and Melo becoming players they never really have actually been, and have certainly have never been with us, we're in for a world of hurt.

    Our one saving grace, IMO, is going back to the up tempo pace we set last year, but with the additional talent, defensive play, and overall commitment to defense.

    It's that style that let us compete with teams we really had no business competing with or beating; and despite the broomstick sweep, it's the only reason we run BOS ragged to their least breath and nanosecond of losing for two games, despite how deeply flawed we were as a team at that time.

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    Originally Posted by Red
    all true but none of this explains the lack of specific game planning for STAT & Melo. STAT stats look putrid, and we can't say our approach features our stars.
    Lin played really bad, and MIA swarmed our players and smothered them from the start with DPOY-type defense. Players just aren't going to flourish in such a spot.

    Unless your individual players display exemplary effort and game. This, IMO, is what legit defines a "superstar". They can get their eats, and will a team, even if the kitchen is filled with smoke. Melo just isn't getting it done; and I think him just getting healthy and placed into our ever-revolving merry go round of players is the reason why....vs him sucking. I think his NBA DNA is one where he can and will do what it takes. And so I put more of an onus on MDA getting things to where that will happen.

    I agree it's paramount our stars are featured. But I don't see why we should think the team isn't aware of that, or moving in that direction. Lin is so new, Amare and Melo are still adjusting with each other, Melo just got back from injury...yadda yadda.

    It's getting old, and I hate excuses, but it is what it is. Can we just have a reasonably set roster for a couple months one time.....

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by Almost_famous718
    THIS We just played the heat and all the attention goes to how bad Lin played? what about our "stars" and the empty stats they put up. They been in this situation before, Lin and chandler were having bad games it was time for the stars to check in and help the team.
    Did you read the OP?

  9. #24
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    Great thread. As I said last night.

    Lins confidence was shook from the start on the strip by Chalmers. He didnt look comfortable all game after that. I hope this isnt a long term thing. He's going to need his confidence.

    MDA could have done somethings to alleviate the pressure the kid felt, but I now feel he needed to go through this. He needs the game experience. He'll now need to adjust accordingly.

    Bosh is what killed us this game. You can not let the entire big three get off. Bosh is the easiest to handle so all efforts should have to be taken to slow him down.

    Some saw us play zone. I didnt. Maybe because I'm sick as a dog. For a team that struggles so mightily against zone defense not to play any is on the coach. Down 4 after halftime would have been the optimum time to spring it on them. Some say we havent practiced the zone in order to implement it. Hogwash. I could grab 5 guys off this board go down to the park and run a 3-2 or 2-3 zone. Effectively. This is on the coach.

    STAT was playing hard and got less run than anyone expected. Bosh cant handle him and neither can Haslem or Anthony. You have to feature STAT if you want to win this game. This is on the coach.

    Melo played hard wasnt getting any calls. Again he wasnt featured. This is on the coach.

    IMHO MDA does not make adjustments. I've said it before he has to do things game by game quarter by quarter to positively effect the outcomes. Lin is not going to be able to carry this team, but he can be a major cog in a serious playoff run if the entire team is coached up...

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    Adjusting is one of his biggest weaknesses...

    After reading the daily news paper the other day…a journalist ask the coach was he worried that Melo might mess up the chemistry since Lin started at the point. The coach said something like “ Melo has to be Melo, all I tell him is attack and don’t worry about fitting in…I don’t even know what fitting in means"...

    LOL and smfh.

  11. #26
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    One other thing. I dont think its a given the Heat will be in the finals for the next 5 years. They're good. They can be beat though.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Did you read the OP?
    Yes i understand the OP i read it completely agree with it stat&melo not being featured is system not running specific plays yes i get it, but i wasn't commenting on the OP's essay i was commenting on a statement someone posted in the OP's thread about our players performance, Running specific offensive plays has nothing to do with not grabbing rebounds, etc. Melo's been in this situation before you think there was a specific game plan vs Celtics in the playoff's in game 2 in the finals? no it was give the ball to melo and get out the way and the man still managed to put up 42/17 rebs, as a star in this league it's your job to pick your team up when things clearly aren't going right, or at least show some leadership and play hard.
    Last edited by NYk_Reloaded718; Feb 24, 2012 at 13:09.

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    Rebounds require proper positioning around the boards. Most times most of the players are spaced around the parimeter...then they crash boards when a long range shot is fired. Chances of rebounding in this fashion is slim...as our players are boxed out by the time they collapse to the basket. Besides, rebounding takes a lot of strength too. When you play a fast pace game like the Knicks...energy levels deplete faster and timing is much harder to come by.This is what I see as far as our boards is concern... A sapped player will hardly get you great results.

    idk, perhaps the coach thinks he has track and field athletes on his team. Maybe he'll do much more better coaching in that sport.

  14. #29
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Stephen A Just interviewed Melo on TV and said the exact same thing I said in the OP. Exact same thing.

    Here
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Anyway can you believe STAT took 1 shot in the 2nd half?

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    Originally Posted by Red
    Stephen A Just interviewed Melo on TV and said the exact same thing I said in the OP. Exact same thing.

    Hope someone can post that link.

    Anyway can you believe STAT took 1 shot in the 2nd half?
    Ill look into the link thing, but yes i can believe stat took 1 shot in the 2nd half they dont pass the ball to him what so ever, chandler see's more touches than stat.

    I cant believe he had 5 rebs though he was a rebound machine vs the Hawks i dont know what happened vs the heat, maybe he was tired?

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