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Thread: This is what I was talking about

  1. #31
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    @red what stephen A. smith is saying, yes the same thing you stated in OP. Stephen is saying everything revolves around dwade, and lebron and Melo and Stat aren't the Priorities they should be.

    It comes down to coaching IMO. Dantoni does not want the offense ran through amare or melo he wants the offense ran through LIN he wants the ball in lin's hands to make the decisions. Which leads to the discussion on can this Lin/melo thing work together. Lin struggled to get the ball to the stars last night vs the Heat, but i feel with more time and practice they can make it work.

    Stephen A stated that melo should be the go to guy within 12 mins in the 4th quarter, but does that honestly make this team better. basically he's saying Lin and everyone else needs to defer to Melo and let him take over, does doing that disrupt the offense? its still to early to judge the team they need more practice.

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    well. Melo's usage rate is as high as Kobe in terms of a swingman, but his contributions are more singular than kobe. Kobe can create lots of assist, but not melo

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    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Almost_famous718
    @red what stephen A. smith is saying, yes the same thing you stated in OP. Stephen is saying everything revolves around dwade, and lebron and Melo and Stat aren't the Priorities they should be.

    It comes down to coaching IMO. Dantoni does not want the offense ran through amare or melo he wants the offense ran through LIN he wants the ball in lin's hands to make the decisions. Which leads to the discussion on can this Lin/melo thing work together. Lin struggled to get the ball to the stars last night vs the Heat, but i feel with more time and practice they can make it work.

    Stephen A stated that melo should be the go to guy within 12 mins in the 4th quarter, but does that honestly make this team better. basically he's saying Lin and everyone else needs to defer to Melo and let him take over, does doing that disrupt the offense? its still to early to judge the team they need more practice.
    he said play off Melo and play through Melo not give it to Melo and move thats where things go wrong

    the fact is D'Antoni rather play through Lin/Chandler/Fields then STAT/Melo period, the fact that they both played within the system last night and still weren't fully utilized is a problem. When STAT is flowing on O he defends his ass off, when Melo is hot there's no stopping him

    At the end of the day everyone wants of role players to be stars and our stars to be role players

  4. #34
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Almost_famous718
    @red what stephen A. smith is saying, yes the same thing you stated in OP. Stephen is saying everything revolves around dwade, and lebron and Melo and Stat aren't the Priorities they should be.

    It comes down to coaching IMO. Dantoni does not want the offense ran through amare or melo he wants the offense ran through LIN he wants the ball in lin's hands to make the decisions. Which leads to the discussion on can this Lin/melo thing work together. Lin struggled to get the ball to the stars last night vs the Heat, but i feel with more time and practice they can make it work.

    Stephen A stated that melo should be the go to guy within 12 mins in the 4th quarter, but does that honestly make this team better. basically he's saying Lin and everyone else needs to defer to Melo and let him take over, does doing that disrupt the offense? its still to early to judge the team they need more practice.
    Of course, we've seen it. But over this break and from now on we need to cut the bull**** and understand it's time to purposely feature Melo. Develop off of that but our primary focus has to be him. We plan for contingencies IF a team can stop that, then we go to STAT and so on.

    Theres nothing wrong with this approach, no one is saying others can't get involved. But the identity needs to be formed so we can at the least attempt to perfect that. D'Antoni must give in or he's out. That's just the truth.


    Originally Posted by CA7
    he said play off Melo and play through Melo not give it to Melo and move thats where things go wrong

    the fact is D'Antoni rather play through Lin/Chandler/Fields then STAT/Melo period, the fact that they both played within the system last night and still weren't fully utilized is a problem. When STAT is flowing on O he defends his ass off, when Melo is hot there's no stopping him

    At the end of the day everyone wants of role players to be stars and our stars to be role players
    Great post, my new sig quote

  5. #35
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Great post, my new sig quote
    its so true and its starting to get annoying

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    Originally Posted by CA7
    he said play off Melo and play through Melo not give it to Melo and move thats where things go wrong

    the fact is D'Antoni rather play through Lin/Chandler/Fields then STAT/Melo period, the fact that they both played within the system last night and still weren't fully utilized is a problem. When STAT is flowing on O he defends his ass off, when Melo is hot there's no stopping him

    At the end of the day everyone wants of role players to be stars and our stars to be role players
    Do you think MDA is like Karl, where he just has no idea on how to incorporate melo within the offense, so they instead just give him the ball in his sweet spot and just clear out, there hasn't been one designed play for Melo that iv'e seen yet. No coming off curls no nothing.

  7. #37
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Almost_famous718
    Do you think MDA is like Karl, where he just has no idea on how to incorporate melo within the offense, so they instead just give him the ball in his sweet spot and just clear out, there hasn't been one designed play for Melo that iv'e seen yet. No coming off curls no nothing.
    Karl knew how to use Melo, evidence by all their success, the fact is D'Antoni wants Melo to catch and drive or catch and shoot right away if nothing is there pass the ball BUT Melo has to read the D because defenses adjust to him more than Landry, I rarely see picks set for him or special designed plays which is why you see iso's a lot with him

    As for STAT I just think he needs to be the focal point or Nash to be most effective

  8. #38
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Karl knew how to use Melo, evidence by all their success, the fact is D'Antoni wants Melo to catch and drive or catch and shoot right away if nothing is there pass the ball BUT Melo has to read the D because defenses adjust to him more than Landry, I rarely see picks set for him or special designed plays which is why you see iso's a lot with him

    As for STAT I just think he needs to be the focal point or Nash to be most effective
    What I don't get is why we're going to Melo with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. We should be going to him with 8-10 seconds left if nothing has presented itself and then letting him get to work. We waste a lot of possessions that way. 8 seconds is more than long enough for a player of Melo's quality to get a good shot (for him) off.

    If last nights game didn't show the difference between a flowing offense (first half) and a ball-stopping offense (second half) I don't know what does.

    I should add its not just Melo. Last night JR Smith, Lin, STAT, Baron Davis were all going one on one with their defenders with 15+ seconds on the clock. I don't know what school of winning team basketball promotes this kind of offense but I don't find it very appealing.
    Last edited by smokes; Feb 24, 2012 at 17:52.

  9. #39
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smokes
    What I don't get is why we're going to Melo with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. We should be going to him with 8-10 seconds left if nothing has presented itself and then letting him get to work. We waste a lot of possessions that way. 8 seconds is more than long enough for a player of Melo's quality to get a good shot (for him) off.

    If last nights game didn't show the difference between a flowing offense (first half) and a ball-stopping offense (second half) I don't know what does.

    I should add its not just Melo. Last night JR Smith, Lin, STAT, Baron Davis were all going one on one with their defenders with 15+ seconds on the clock. I don't know what school of winning team basketball promotes this kind of offense but I don't find it very appealing.
    yeah I agree no need to go to Melo for an iso at 18 unless where down 20 in the 4th and need to get points

    the fact that Lin couldn't get anywhere is why so much iso took place, he started going one on one and then everyone did

    I put this on D'Antoni because he made no adjustments

  10. #40
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    yeah I agree no need to go to Melo for an iso at 18 unless where down 20 in the 4th and need to get points

    the fact that Lin couldn't get anywhere is why so much iso took place, he started going one on one and then everyone did

    I put this on D'Antoni because he made no adjustments
    To be honest if we're down 20 in the 4th we should just have Lin Smith Melo Novak all bombing 3 pointers.

    I dunno what happened though really.

    First half Lin struggled but we kept moving the ball and kept the game close. Most of Amare and Melo's points came from close range getting to the hoop. Second half it all fell apart. Suddenly all these players who were involved in the offense in the first half were just settling for jumpshots. Why the change in emphasis? Things were working for us in the first half we were down 4 points and if we didn't turn the ball over a stupid amount we would have easily been winning.

    Maybe they wanted to take the pressure off Lin by having him be less aggressive while trying to create? IDK but whatever it was didn't work and we should know by now that the kind of basketball we played in the second half vs Miami (we kinda did the same against Atlanta in the second half hence why the ridiculous blowout didn't end up as one), this **** simply doesn't cut it, it's the very same reason we went like 8-15 or w/e it was to start the season.

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    Default Agreeing with Red

    I agree with Red and all the posters who are agreeing with Red. But I read Red's points as better than Stephen A's.

    I do not mind running things through Lin, but Lin should be constantly looking to feeding Melo and Amare in the right spots and at the right time. There have to be some plays specifically designed for the stars. We can not have Melo standing in the corner or on an elbow waiting for Lin to break down the defense. Lin should do just enough to give Melo some space or Amare' a lane to the basket.

    There has got to be something in between endless Melo ISO plays and Lin's constant drives to the basket and shots or kick-outs to statues in a corner.

  12. #42
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Also on the main post of this thread, Red, point well made.

    MDA's system can be great, but when the open look that results from all the hard work of the offense falls to say, Jared Jeffries, there wasn't much point in all that work in the first place.

    We need a couple of pick n rolls/pick n pops for Amare. Screens around the key and the baseline for Melo/Fields. So on and so forth. Our offense has so many potent weapons, so much potential, we need to release that.

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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    I agree with Red and all the posters who are agreeing with Red. But I read Red's points as better than Stephen A's.

    I do not mind running things through Lin, but Lin should be constantly looking to feeding Melo and Amare in the right spots and at the right time. There have to be some plays specifically designed for the stars. We can not have Melo standing in the corner or on an elbow waiting for Lin to break down the defense. Lin should do just enough to give Melo some space or Amare' a lane to the basket.

    There has got to be something in between endless Melo ISO plays and Lin's constant drives to the basket and shots or kick-outs to statues in a corner.
    Even more than that the knicks need plays.... I keep saying this but that "mini Camp" might be the best thing to happen to the knicks all season.

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