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Thread: Has Novak surpassed current Ray Allen?

  1. #31
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    How is it sarcastic? Novak has been absolute money.

    A better question is who would be better for this team. Ray Allen runs around and nails shoots quickly, but I've seen him go cold in games, don't know about this season. Novak seems to be the second best shooter in the league when he gets a shot off (Dirk is the best, and Nash doesn't take a lot of shots so it's hard to judge him).
    Id say Novak has easily surpassed Ray Allen. Rays having a good season, ill give him that. But hes a choke artist in the playoffs. Back in 08, he had a horrible playoff series against the Cavs where he got outplayed by Wally Szcerbiak. In 2010, he couldnt hit a shot in game 7 of the Finals. Celtics Lost.

    Novak is way more clutch and he has more swag. His defense has improved, his all around game continues to improve. We're talking about a guy here who would start for most teams, its not like Stat is any better of a rebounder then Novak. I dont see why he cant start at PF for us

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    ^^ Lol, that's hilarious.

  3. #33
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    I like Novak but he hasn't put in half the work Ray has. Plus they operate out of different systems. Put Ray here and put Novak in Boston then you'll have your answer. Novak still has a lot more to prove to even think about being in the same class as Ray Allen. I know some of us is loving the Knicks new look. However, at the same time that same look can be very blinding.

  4. #34
    Veteran BIG APPLE SPORTS's Avatar
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    This thread is dumb, steve novak isnt in the same stratosphere as Ray Allen even in this stage of Rays career.Ray Allen is shooting 48.6% from deep and averaging 15 points 3 assists and 3 rebounds.Novak doesnt put those numbers up plus he can barely create for himself or handle the ball.I hate Ray Allen and even this is really stupid we are all caught up in the hype of the moment just like linsanity a week ago.

  5. #35
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BIG APPLE SPORTS
    This thread is dumb, steve novak isnt in the same stratosphere as Ray Allen even in this stage of Rays career.Ray Allen is shooting 48.6% from deep and averaging 15 points 3 assists and 3 rebounds.Novak doesnt put those numbers up plus he can barely create for himself or handle the ball.I hate Ray Allen and even this is really stupid we are all caught up in the hype of the moment just like linsanity a week ago.
    Ray Allen is putting up less than twice the amount of points in over twice the amount of minutes.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    Id say Novak has easily surpassed Ray Allen. Rays having a good season, ill give him that. But hes a choke artist in the playoffs. Back in 08, he had a horrible playoff series against the Cavs where he got outplayed by Wally Szcerbiak. In 2010, he couldnt hit a shot in game 7 of the Finals. Celtics Lost.

    Novak is way more clutch and he has more swag. His defense has improved, his all around game continues to improve. We're talking about a guy here who would start for most teams, its not like Stat is any better of a rebounder then Novak. I dont see why he cant start at PF for us
    It's not going to happen him replacing Amare as the starter but I have been saying he should get more minutes based on his credible defense and his projected shooting production. He shoots 10.8 3 pointers per 36 min, makes 5.1 of them. If he got starter minutes at 36 mpg and played a regular season of 82 games, he would make 418 3 pointers in a season. That is 149 more than Ray Allen's all time record.

    He just might be on a hot streak but the way the guy is shooting and contributing why not play the hot hand and get him 30mpg, let him play his way out of more minutes when and if he cools off.

  7. #37
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    Wasn't a theory. Was legit asking anybody who watched enough of Allen this season.

    Their efficiency is pretty close, and Allen has more skills in other areas. Who would you rather have for this team though? Novak is lighting it up quickly. Allen is playing 33.9 mpg, Novak 15.6. Novak is averaging 8 ppg, Allen 14.8.

    You don't have to tell me about Allen's accolades, leadership, and whatever else. Fact is, Novak is playing less than half of his minutes, making major contributions, we're moving up, and Allen's team is moving down. Not blaming it on Allen, but let's let's not get ahead of ourselves hear and say Allen is beyond better than Novak now, at least if he was on this team.

    Korver plays the same offensive game as Allen, I like Korver more, but Allen is better. I'm not being biased, Novak has been pretty damn impressive lately.

    Who would you rather have on this team? The team is pretty deep, so I'll take Novak's money shot without needing a lot of time rather than Ray's veteran leadership and other intangibles. Plus I think Novak hasn't been bad defensively and is at least a decent rebounder.
    First of all a theory can ask a question you test with evidence or experimentation, so this nonsense you've posted is just that except the evidence there is to support it is either really weak, or doesn't exist.

    You posted their respective scoring averages. Why would you do that? You have to look at the sample size and the other factors that impact them. Allen has played a whole season so far of 30 games and started every one. He has earned his scoring average of 14.8 over the course them against other teams starters. This factor is of great importance because Novak is asked to come in against other teams second units the majority of the time. He plays against poorer defenders on average as a result. He's also a guy teams leave open (which will start to happen less and less if he keeps making; teams will have to pick their poison) alot of times. Teams key in and try to take away from Ray Ray's impact every night.

    Next, this system inflates the stats and value of guys like Novak because he can bacically sit on the perimeter and benefit from Lin's ability to get in the paint and kick the ball out to him. Novak is the perfect player to have for this reason. All he has to do is catch and shoot and right now he's making, which is good but you've gotten carried away. Allen plays in a halfcourt system that is not at all uptempo. He's also played a good part of the season without Rondo who gets him some easy looks throughout the course of games.

    Allen is also asked to guard the other team's starting two (which is not easy at 36) and he's still a pretty good defender imo. Novak is not a good individual defender. He's a decent team defender who you can have on the floor if you have a guy like Chandler who can hide poor perimeter players shortcomings. He's our Steve Kerr or whatever.. our Mario Ellie.

    Novak is doing what we want him to do and not much else. Allen is asked to do much more and is still getting it done in a starting role, at 33 minutes per.. at age 36.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Mar 02, 2012 at 13:43. Reason: left out a wrd

  8. #38
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    First of all a theory can ask a question you test with evidence or experimentation, so this nonsense you've posted is just that except the evidence there is to support it is either really weak, or doesn't exist.

    You posted their respective scoring averages. Why would you do that? You have to look at the sample size and the other factors that impact them. Allen has played a whole season so far of 30 games and started every one. He has earned his scoring average of 14.8 over the course them against other teams starters. This factor is of great importance because Novak is asked to come in against other teams second units the majority of the time. He plays against poorer defenders on average as a result. He's also a guy teams leave open (which will start to happen less and less if keeps making; teams will have to pick their poison) alot of times. Teams key in and try to take away from Ray Ray's impact every night.

    Next, this system inflates the stats and value of guys like Novak because he can bacically sit on the perimeter and benefit from Lin's ability to get in the paint and kick the ball out to him. Novak is the perfect player to have in this system for this reason. All he has to do is catch and shoot and right now he's making, which is good but you've gotten carried away. Allen plays in a halfcourt system that is not at all uptempo.

    Allen is also asked to guard the other team's starting two (which is not easy at 36) and he's still a pretty good defender imo. Novak is not a good individual defender. He's a decent team defender who you can have on the floor if you have a guy like Chandler who can hide poor perimeter players shortcomings. He's our Steve Kerr or whatever.. our Mario Ellie.

    Novak is doing what we want him to do and not much else. Allen is asked to do much more and is still getting it done in a starting role, at 33 minutes per.. at age 36.
    I agree with most of this.

    However with Novak's decent D and rebounding on this team I might rather have Novak. Is he better than current Ray Allen? No. Is he better for this team? Maybe. The reason I think this is because think of this way, Ray has more versatility as a shooter, is a great shooter, and gets very streaky. Novak however when he gets a shot up might be the better shooter. Of course he depends on his teammates and coach more than Ray, but, on this team, Novak is gonna get a lot of those shots if he keeps it up.

    Take Derrick Rose's ball handling for example, that's not gonna go away, he might struggle in other areas such as his shooting, but it's not gonna go away, that skill. Same with Novak. Allen is a better player, but Novak's skill of shooting is ALWAYS there.

    I think most would choose Allen though on the vet. min, so I'm gonna give a different example. Would you rather have Gallinari or Novak on this team? Gallinari is more versatile, but his versatility is not needed on the Knicks. Gallinari is an inconsistent shooter, which is something we don't need if we can have Novak. I know it's hard to not choose the better overall player a lot of the time, but the better player is not always better for a team.

  9. #39
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    I agree with most of this.

    However with Novak's decent D and rebounding on this team I might rather have Novak. Is he better than current Ray Allen? No. Is he better for this team? Maybe. The reason I think this is because think of this way, Ray has more versatility as a shooter, is a great shooter, and gets very streaky. Novak however when he gets a shot up might be the better shooter. Of course he depends on his teammates and coach more than Ray, but, on this team, Novak is gonna get a lot of those shots if he keeps it up.

    Take Derrick Rose's ball handling for example, that's not gonna go away, he might struggle in other areas such as his shooting, but it's not gonna go away, that skill. Same with Novak. Allen is a better player, but Novak's skill of shooting is ALWAYS there.

    I think most would choose Allen though on the vet. min, so I'm gonna give a different example. Would you rather have Gallinari or Novak on this team? Gallinari is more versatile, but his versatility is not needed on the Knicks. Gallinari is an inconsistent shooter, which is something we don't need if we can have Novak. I know it's hard to not choose the better overall player a lot of the time, but the better player is not always better for a team.
    You take Gallo over Novak all day brah. And no, having/ getting the better player is always the idea for any front office. Look at Denver before his injury and after.. that and he's still growing. Nah dude Gallo is the ****. He could do what Novak is doing and more. That's what you want for your team. You always want to add multi-faceted type players, guys who can do more than one thing. The more guys you have on your squad who can do multiple things at high level the more it helps your team.

  10. #40
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    RunningJump might have a point, I see what hes saying. Gallinari is obviously the more versatile player, but Novak is the more consistent outside shooter which is more of a need on this team.

    But my man Ron has a point too, look at Denver without Gallinari. They have been struggling big time which is proof that Gallo is approaching borderline all star status.

    In the end Id rather have Gallo, he'd have to be a backup SF/PF like Novak. It'd give us a better oppertunity to rest Amare, obviously with Melo at the 3 theres not as many minutes at the back SF position. Whats Melo averaging, about 34 minutes a game im guessing? That would give him 14 minutes at SF, he could take like 20 minutes and have Stat play 28 (not that i would give him even half that many minutes, but Dantoni will). Yea, Im going with Gallo no direspect to Novak.

    Novaks value cannot be overlooked on this team, hes a 3pt specialist and the more good perimeter shooters u have in Dantoni's system the better your offense will be. And it opens up the paint more, makes it easier to get to the rim or do well against a zone defense

  11. #41
    Member LINvincible's Avatar
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    Novak is a perfect fit for the Knicks.
    With the 2 prima donnas (Melo & Stat) on this team, we need a willing elite 3 point shooter coming off the bench to play 10-15 minutes.

  12. #42
    Newbie K.R.U.L.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    Lin is miles better than Rondo. That's why they're on the verge of being a lottery team and trying to trade him.

    Shumpert will be better than Wade early next year.


    Chandler is more of a winner than Howard.
    Holy fu*king sh*t

  13. #43
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Bump......

  14. #44
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by K.R.U.L.
    Holy fu*king sh*t
    C'mon fam, seriously. Rondo never had a stretch like Linsanity, just wait until Lin gets back. People will forget about Rondo the same way Shumpert will make casual fans forget about Dwayne Wade.

    I'd compare Wade 2 seasons from now to the current Vince Carter, but at least Vince still gets his respect as the GOAT dunker.

    Wade will be remembered as the guy that got a championship gift wrapped to him by Dallas back in 06, the guy who got injured all the time, the guy that choked in the 2011 finals, the guy that only got one ring, and the guy that became Shumperts b*tch

  15. #45
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    C'mon fam, seriously. Rondo never had a stretch like Linsanity, just wait until Lin gets back. People will forget about Rondo the same way Shumpert will make casual fans forget about Dwayne Wade.

    I'd compare Wade 2 seasons from now to the current Vince Carter, but at least Vince still gets his respect as the GOAT dunker.

    Wade will be remembered as the guy that got a championship gift wrapped to him by Dallas back in 06, the guy who got injured all the time, the guy that choked in the 2011 finals, the guy that only got one ring, and the guy that became Shumperts b*tch
    Funnily enough the situation Rondo and Novak are in is so similar. Basically speaking, they are both in the perfect situation for their talents and are both somewhat overrated. If Rondo was in any other team i don't think he would have had the same success, Novak is a brilliant role player not a starter.

    So no, Novak shouldn't start. He is a perfect fit for the Knicks in his current role. I just hope we can keep him next year, will anyone else overpay for him?

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