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Thread: Knicks lack mental toughness

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Default Knicks lack mental toughness

    Interesting piece from Tommy Dee at SNY's the Knicksblog.com

    The Difference is Toughness…
    by Tommy Dee on March 5th, 2012 at 3:48 pm


    "What sets the bar, for me, in terms of where the Knicks are at is their team toughness within the conference. That doesn’t mean the physical nature necessarily, but it does mean mental toughness for sure. Alright, both are synonymous for the purposes of this discussion.

    Yesterday, the Knicks were weak mentally, especially at the point guard position. Too many missed opportunities. Too many bad passes. TKB regular Jake Nussbaum brought up a great point…

    @TommyDeeTKB great job on the spreecast TD...i definitely think the team is missing a certain toughness...it stems from Dantoni
    March 4, 2012 9:36 pm via webReplyRetweetFavorite
    @nuss006
    Jake Nussbaum
    To me, the biggest difference between this group and the 99 team is that the players won’t run through a wall for D’Antoni right now. Will that change as the move towards the playoffs? We will see. If they don’t then he will be gone, there’s no question of that. There is no middle ground.

    What we saw yesterday, and what we saw in Miami were the Knicks getting pushed around by veteran defensive units. In the 3rd quarter they were forced into tough and awkward shots and the got zero second chances. Miami and Boston are playoff teams who have built toughness through togetherness longer than the Knicks have. The time to step up the toughness and break through the lack of a foul call while finishing a layup, or holding your ground instead of reacting to contact on a loose ball rebound is over. Imposing your will on the game has to start now.

    The Celtics just looked tougher than the Knicks, particularly when it comes to the two superstars we’re paying all that money to. The Knicks seem to lack, so far anyway, that spine-stiffener that the Celtics have, and have had for the last half-decade. The Knicks best find it soon. They’re a game under .500 and have road games against San Antonio and Dallas in the next three days. Most of all, they’ll have to try to forget yesterday’s game as soon as possible. We hope they have better luck than we have.

    True. Or this thing could slip away very, very quickly."


    He makes a point, this team fails to show tough skin and continues to choke time and time again, even with these players that are all stars. The Celtics beat us time and time again because of toughness and execution. I would disagree that we have soft players but I would agree that this team won't run through a wall for D'Antoni, he simply doesn't command enough influence like a Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, etc has done. I have never liked Mike D but seeing him get outcoached by Doc Rivers everytime is making me sick. The 3rd quarter, scoring only 16t points and giving up 29...is UNACCEPTABLE and it is amazing how it happened right after a pretty good first half if you exclude the turnovers. I just don't see this team going anywhere with this coach. When Melo, Amare, or Chandler start letting emotions get to them, is Mike D going to set them straight? NO because he doesn't hold players accountable. He doesn't have balls and I don't see how we can win with a no balls coach leading this team that NEEDS a motivational coach. You guys can say what you want.

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    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Pierced and Garknee are smarter, tougher players then Amarknee and Marshmallow

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    Superstar NYCLakerfan's Avatar
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    It's not toughness at all this team has showed a lot of resolve as far as coming back from big deficits and continuing to play hard when their down big.

    Their not playing smart basketball at all thats the issue they didn't get punked or bullied by Boston it wasn't mental toughness it was just plane stupidity.

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    Chandler & shump are the only players on the knicks with mental toughness, In my opinion that is. Carmelo to certain degree kind of hard to say a clutch player like that doesn't have mental toughness, maybe not on the defensive end though...
    Last edited by NYk_Reloaded718; Mar 06, 2012 at 00:38.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    This is the indictment on our coach Mr. D'antoni. No if or buts, & no way around this fact. If mental toughness is the one thing we lack, & if we fail to advance a round in the playoffs (& be competitive in the 2nd round), then this SSOL SOB gets fired and the zen master himself gets hired. Welcome Phil Jax.

    TIf Phil returns home and leads us to a title... He solidies his GREATEST COACH EVER status.

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    i don't want to make too much out of this and i hope that it doesn't mean too much, but all the laughter and the great mood in the locker room after such a close game with one of our most hated rivals is a little hard to swallow...

    personally i got over the loss 24 hrs later,imagine if we were playing in the game...

    imho it needs toughness and a controlled but fully competitive spirit in order to win in any sport...(see what derrick rose said about the pacers)

    and still i'm just not sure that melo and amare , our two studs , have that mentality....

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    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sg8
    i don't want to make too much out of this and i hope that it doesn't mean too much, but all the laughter and the great mood in the locker room after such a close game with one of our most hated rivals is a little hard to swallow...

    personally i got over the loss 24 hrs later,imagine if we were playing in the game...

    imho it needs toughness and a controlled but fully competitive spirit in order to win in any sport...(see what derrick rose said about the pacers)

    and still i'm just not sure that melo and amare , our two studs , have that mentality....
    I'm honestly still not over it. Because I know how importtant at this juncture a win like that is. Too bad the knicks don't

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    This is the coach's responsibility. Maybe in the beginning of the season the focus and toughness isn't quite there but eventually you need to get your team to believe it. A coach should have his squad thinking nothing less.

    Most of this can probably be contributed to Antoni being afraid of Melo and Amare. These guys can be better defenders but you hardly see Antoni pushing them to give maximum effort. That's why i'd love to have Phil as coach because EVERYONE including the stars would get put in their place.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    This is the coach's responsibility.
    You're straight up trolling now, is there any other topic you would like to brush besides obsessively blaming D'Antoni for everything?

    First of all, the NBA is a soft league. A lot of the rules have been modified to favor superstars.

    If you mean physicality, I don't know how you coach that. You guys want D'Antoni to be a strength and conditioning coach? I don't know anymore.

    Any illogical idea will come to D'Antoni because we have an overload of posters who can't think beyond the trend.

    The only physical players we have is Chandler, Shumpert, JJ, Jorts...Lin sometimes and Carmelo sometimes.

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    12th man
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk

    Most of this can probably be contributed to Antoni being afraid of Melo and Amare. These guys can be better defenders but you hardly see Antoni pushing them to give maximum effort. [
    why are you making these things up in your head?

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    I think many Knicks "fans" that post on this board lack mental toughness.
    One negative thread after the other, it's getting tough to hang here my dudes.
    Last edited by unloopme; Mar 06, 2012 at 14:57.

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    personally i'm not negative at all...i wanna believe in this team and i do believe in them...i m not looking for anyone to leave,not stat not melo despite their recent struggles...

    i was just saying that i was very surprised reading of a cheerful locker room after such an intense basketball game.....

    and i do believe that if it had gone the other way paul ****ing pierce and his hated celtics wouldn't be so cheerful at all....

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    You're straight up trolling now, is there any other topic you would like to brush besides obsessively blaming D'Antoni for everything?

    First of all, the NBA is a soft league. A lot of the rules have been modified to favor superstars.

    If you mean physicality, I don't know how you coach that. You guys want D'Antoni to be a strength and conditioning coach? I don't know anymore.

    Any illogical idea will come to D'Antoni because we have an overload of posters who can't think beyond the trend.

    The only physical players we have is Chandler, Shumpert, JJ, Jorts...Lin sometimes and Carmelo sometimes.
    In the history of sports when a team is displaying a lack of determination or toughness, its usually a sign that the coach doesn't have full attention of the team. This is just the way it is. You should know that, so I don't know why all of a sudden you want act all oblivious about it.

    A well prepared team (mentally) will most likely succeed and the coach will be credited for it. Popovich is a great example of this. No matter the team he works with, they are always keyed in. Same goes for Sloan.

    This thread is about a lack of mental toughness. Well I bet you the right type of coach could change that. I'll refer you to the Bulls.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    why are you making these things up in your head?
    So please explain why Walker, TD, Fields or anyone else besides Melo and Amare get yelled at? That's a FACT. Are you really going to dispute that? Please try.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    So please explain why Walker, TD, Fields or anyone else besides Melo and Amare get yelled at? That's a FACT. Are you really going to dispute that? Please try.
    Not agreeing with anyone here but have you ever seen Phil yell at Kobe or Jordan. Thibs critcize rose, or Brooks go after Durant. Mike Brown or Spolstra never seem to have anythinng to say to Wade or Lebron.

    I read a story one year that Mo Williams go pissed off during a video session when Mike Brown yelled at Dolente West for his lack of D and let Lebron slide.

    The fact is the best superstars are the hardest workers. Although I don't coach professionally I volunteer with a youth group but this holds true at any age, if your hardest worker is your best player than the team works just as hard.

    I can almost guareentee that Stat and Melo are not the hardest workers on the team.

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