Carmelo Anthony, the new Glenn Robinson.

KingCharles34

All Star
Blake Griffin is not elite, he has no skill, he is all athleticism, cant shoot, has no post moves, cant defend, all he can do is run and jump(pretty damn good at it LOL, but he's more of an athlete than basketball player)

Interesting topic here, someone should make this thread in the NBA section.

I agree, not to that extent but CP3 is the real star of the Clippers. Blake has struggles against good defensive teams, he has some post moves and a decent jumpshot but nothing spectacular. Some of his dunks are very overrated, he aint got sh*t on Vince Carter. That Mozgov dunk makes me sick, it aint even really a dunk. Those dunks on Pau Gasol though....Oh boy no homo but i bust a nut to those. Ill give him his props there, but Vince over Zo Mourning >>>
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
Fixed I thought I wrote Paul

My thing with Deron Williams is he's is over valued as a defender. Great player but I think at this point he is below Rose/Paul and right with Rondo/Westbrook

The bolded part is so true, Melo is constantly regarded as the most difficult person to guard in the NBA, that right there makes him elite and top 5-10. There is no sure fire top 5 it varies from person to person.

Yea I don't like to rank each player with a specific number since it's not like their playing 1 on 1 games. But I like to put them in tiers the superstars Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Melo, KD then your all stars Dirk, Love, Rondo etc.

Because like you said once your in that top superstar class anyone of those guys can outplay each other on any given night.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Yea I don't like to rank each player with a specific number since it's not like their playing 1 on 1 games. But I like to put them in tiers the superstars Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Melo, KD then your all stars Dirk, Love, Rondo etc.

Because like you said once your in that top superstar class anyone of those guys can outplay each other on any given night.

Agreed, we tend to buy into stats a little too much in my eyes, LBJ scores a lot of points but he isn't a great scorer

Another thing about LeBron is his usage rate is high, he's selfishly unselfish. He wants to either make the pass or the shot, he takes rebounds from guys, he turns his PG's into spot up guards(Hughes, Gibson, Williams, Chalmers, Cole)

LeBron makes players better YES but he also stunts their growth

just a little pet peeve about LeBron's game
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Sooooo.. we've got a list that favors Deng over Melo (Kingstarbury I'm gonna chock this up to a momentary lapse in bball judgement) and a guy on here that thinks Blake Griffin has no skill. Smf-ingh.

People Melo is an unguardable player. That makes him extremely valuable on many levels. With more attention to D he's easily top ten, top 5 perhaps. That said he's not that bad defensively. He's just not a lock-down type.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Sooooo.. we've got a list that favors Deng over Melo (Kingstarbury I'm gonna chock this up to a momentary lapse in bball judgement) and a guy on here that thinks Blake Griffin has no skill. Smf-ingh.

People Melo is an unguardable player. That makes him extremely valuable on many levels. With more attention to D he's easily top ten, top 5 perhaps. That said he's not that bad defensively. He's just not a lock-down type.

name 1 place where Blake Griffin in skilled besides running and jumping
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Sooooo.. we've got a list that favors Deng over Melo (Kingstarbury I'm gonna chock this up to a momentary lapse in bball judgement) and a guy on here that thinks Blake Griffin has no skill. Smf-ingh.

People Melo is an unguardable player. That makes him extremely valuable on many levels. With more attention to D he's easily top ten, top 5 perhaps. That said he's not that bad defensively. He's just not a lock-down type.

Look Ron Ron, if we were talking about Carmelo from any other year besides this one, I would agree with you.

However, Carmelo is an average defender. Deng is a great defender

Deng = above average offense + Great defense

Carmelo = Good offense + Average defense

Van Gundy went as far as to say he thought Deng was the best perimeter defender in the league, he might have even said all around. I didnt quite catch the whole conversation, i was listening to music while watching the game.

Im going by what has happened this year, not in past years. Carmelo's FG% is the lowest its been his whole career, i easily have an argument to my case. Im tired of getting called out on this, i have explained my case over and over again. Its 50/50, Half of my opinion is defense, the other is offense. We're talking about 2 way players in this thread (offense and defense), not just pure scoring. At least I am...

Had Carmelo been scoring and defending all year like he has post Dantoni, he would be top 10.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
name 1 place where Blake Griffin in skilled besides running and jumping

Omg seriously??

Ok.. just this once lol..

His footwork in the post offensively is very gd. He's a fundamentally sound player CA7. He can back back you down, spin or turn and fade. He's gd at pump faking guys getting them in the air and drawing fouls. He can face guys up in the post, drive around them and counter if what he wants isn't there.

Really his offensive game and footwork in particular are very polished. He's just a freak athletically so that aspect of his talent tends to overshadow other parts of his game. Don't be fooled.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Look Ron Ron, if we were talking about Carmelo from any other year besides this one, I would agree with you.

However, Carmelo is an average defender. Deng is a great defender

Deng = above average offense + Great defense

Carmelo = Good offense + Average defense

Van Gundy went as far as to say he thought Deng was the best perimeter defender in the league, he might have even said all around. I didnt quite catch the whole conversation, i was listening to music while watching the game.

Im going by what has happened this year, not in past years. Carmelo's FG% is the lowest its been his whole career, i easily have an argument to my case. Im tired of getting called out on this, i have explained my case over and over again. Its 50/50, Half of my opinion is defense, the other is offense. We're talking about 2 way players in this thread (offense and defense), not just pure scoring. At least I am...

Had Carmelo been scoring and defending all year like he has post Dantoni, he would be top 10.

Dude.. in those games against the Bulls Melo pooped all over Dengs face.

I think Deng's a gd defender, but hes just not better than Melo. Not this year, not last year or any other year since theyve been in the league together.

Case and point.. Since when is a gd defensive player w good offense more valuable than a great offensive player w average defensive?? Never. Deng isnt better than Dirk either.

Deng is a top 25 player
 
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KingCharles34

All Star
^

Well a big part of my argument is I dont think Carmelo's been a great offensive player if you look at the entire season. Yes he has during this recent stretch, which is why any other year aside from this one I would have Carmelo ahead of Deng.

And Carmelo vs Deng is only one matchup, Dengs a big reason why the Bulls usually beat the Celtics...a trend thats been happening for the past few years. We've had our struggles against boston, and Pierce has owned us more then Melo has owned the celtics.

I respect your opinion though. And while I dont have Carmelo in my top 15 I dont disrespect the opinions of other posters that do, I have a tough time respecting the opinion that hes top 10 though.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
^

Well a big part of my argument is I dont think Carmelo's been a great offensive player if you look at the entire season. Yes he has during this recent stretch, which is why any other year aside from this one I would have Carmelo ahead of Deng.

And Carmelo vs Deng is only one matchup, Dengs a big reason why the Bulls usually beat the Celtics...a trend thats been happening for the past few years. We've had our struggles against boston, and Pierce has owned us more then Melo has owned the celtics.

I respect your opinion though. And while I dont have Carmelo in my top 15 I dont disrespect the opinions of other posters that do, I have a tough time respecting the opinion that hes top 10 though.

He's always been the same offensively talent-wise. He was just hamstrung n shackled by his own reluctance to adhere to MDA's system.

I respect your opinion too.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Thanks bro and i do take those things into account, I do feel like some fans are too hard on Melo. He was injuried for a while (even now hes still injured) and its unfair to make a full judgement on any player while we were being coached by Mike O
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
Omg seriously??

Ok.. just this once lol..

His footwork in the post offensively is very gd. He's a fundamentally sound player CA7. He can back back you down, spin or turn and fade. He's gd at pump faking guys getting them in the air and drawing fouls. He can face guys up in the post, drive around them and counter if what he wants isn't there.

Really his offensive game and footwork in particular are very polished. He's just a freak athletically so that aspect of his talent tends to overshadow other parts of his game. Don't be fooled.

BG is not a fundamentally sound player he's extremely raw player that is improving skill wise but he is not a very skilled player he really just has that extremely fast spin move in the post and no other move.

I even hear Clippers fans on realgm criticizing BG for not having a good enough shot or great footwork.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
BG is not a fundamentally sound player he's extremely raw player that is improving skill wise but he is not a very skilled player he really just has that extremely fast spin move in the post and no other move.

I even hear Clippers fans on realgm criticizing BG for not having a good enough shot or great footwork.

Okay.......... :smokin:
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Ight.............:cool:


Peep this so you don't think I'm just saying shit just to say it.


Blake Griffin Statistics Generated Scouting Report 2011


Blake Griffin has amazing scoring ability

Can get his shot off easily

Adequate from three point range

Gets to the line at will

Terrible free throw shooter

Not a good jump shooter

Good penetrator

Amazing post up game

Solid in an uptempo game

Blake Griffin has solid offensive rebounding ability

Outstanding on the defensive glass

Blake Griffin is a sensational passer

Pretty good ball handler

Blake Griffin is not a player who will get steals

Not a player who will get blocks

Pretty good at stopping open looks

Weak perimeter defender

Outstanding inside stopper

Weak guarding in transition

Blake Griffin has outstanding strength

Excellent quickness

Blake Griffin is a fantastic basketball player with superstar ability

http://www.nbapostup.com/blake-griffin-scouting-report-2011
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
Only like 20% of those thing are accurate.

Do you guys think BG is a better player than Amare when their both at there best because I had this argument with a friend.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Peep this so you don't think I'm just saying shit just to say it.


Blake Griffin Statistics Generated Scouting Report 2011


Blake Griffin has amazing scoring ability

Can get his shot off easily

Adequate from three point range

Gets to the line at will

Terrible free throw shooter

Not a good jump shooter

Good penetrator

Amazing post up game

Solid in an uptempo game

Blake Griffin has solid offensive rebounding ability

Outstanding on the defensive glass

Blake Griffin is a sensational passer

Pretty good ball handler

Blake Griffin is not a player who will get steals

Not a player who will get blocks

Pretty good at stopping open looks

Weak perimeter defender

Outstanding inside stopper

Weak guarding in transition

Blake Griffin has outstanding strength

Excellent quickness

Blake Griffin is a fantastic basketball player with superstar ability

http://www.nbapostup.com/blake-griffin-scouting-report-2011

can get his shot off easily-not a good jump shooter

gets to the line at will-terrible free throw shooter

not a player who will get blocks or steals, poor perimeter defender, weak guarding in transition-with his athleticism that is pathetic in every way

Blake Griffin is nothing but a sportscenter monkey and ticket seller, he's a side show, put Kevin Love on the Clippers and they are the #1 team in the West I guarantee it
 
He's always been the same offensively talent-wise. He was just hamstrung n shackled by his own reluctance to adhere to MDA's system.

I respect your opinion too.


Thank god for this. We'd be on the outside (of the playoff picture) looking in if Melo didnt man up and voice his concerns...
 
BG is not a fundamentally sound player he's extremely raw player that is improving skill wise but he is not a very skilled player he really just has that extremely fast spin move in the post and no other move.

I even hear Clippers fans on realgm criticizing BG for not having a good enough shot or great footwork.

This is Blakes 2nd year in the league he's already getting you 20 & 10. He'll get better at shooting. When he does it'll be lights out for the rest of the league.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Blakes got good low post offense and a decent jumpshot. Hes a good rebounder, solid low post defender, and hes bad at just about everything else defensively. Chris Paul is the reason why the Clippers are 4th. Deandre Jordan does a nice job of covering up BG's weaknesses on defense. BG will be a beast on offense once he improves that jumpshot

*edit*

NYC i think Amare at his best is slightly better then Blake, both of them should be great defenders but im not sure whats going on there. Im not even gonna speak on there defense. Offensively, Amare has the better jumpshot. He has more moves and better penetration. And let me just say this is based off a very small sample size from this year and half of last season. Plus his game 1 against the Celtics before the back injury
 
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