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Thread: Carmelo Anthony, the new Glenn Robinson.

  1. #121
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    1. The year before Melo got drafted, and the 8 years he spent there.
    2010-11 Denver 50 32 .610 2nd Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2009-10 Denver 53 29 .646 1st Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2008-09 Denver 54 28 .659 1st Northwest Division 10 6 .625 Lost West Conf Finals
    2007-08 Denver 50 32 .610 2nd Northwest Division 0 4 .000 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2006-07 Denver 45 37 .549 2nd Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2005-06 Denver 44 38 .537 1st Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2004-05 Denver 49 33 .598 2nd Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2003-04 Denver 43 39 .524 6th Midwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2002-03 Denver 17 65 .207 7th Midwest Division - - - DNQ
    1. Glen robinson's years in Milwaukee.
    2001-02 Milwaukee 41 41 .500 5th Central Division - - - DNQ
    2000-01 Milwaukee 52 30 .634 1st Central Division 10 8 .556 Lost East Conf Finals
    1999-00 Milwaukee 42 40 .512 4th Central Division 2 3 .400 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    1998-99 * Milwaukee 28 22 .560 4th Central Division 0 3 .000 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    1997-98 Milwaukee 36 46 .439 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    1996-97 Milwaukee 33 49 .402 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    1995-96 Milwaukee 25 57 .305 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    [
    Glen rob, had 2 other all-stars also, no one has taken that in account, to compair him to Melo is crazy.Melo was making the playoffs every year in Denver, when the west was really strong.Better STATS, less help, more wins, it's not even close.
    this thread is done...........great post this says it all

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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    I think it's time to lock this thread and put it down to a bad judgement call. In time, no-one will remember it ever existed.

    One last thing before we put this to rest. Durant has such a high % inside the paint due to predominantly taking those shots on the break (i.e unguarded) You'll rarely see Durant take on a player in the paint.

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    Originally Posted by CA7
    since when was Kevin Durant an elite defender, I swear he has Sefolosha, Ibaka and Perkins........which make up for his weak defensive tendencies
    Sefo, Ibaka and Perks are good defenders.

    Durant was a weak defender in the beginning of his NBA career (it was hard for him to be physical)

    Durant's defense has improve immensely from what I seen of him this season, I wouldn't call it great, but its pretty good. He's definitely one of the best help defenders at his position. He gives you a steal and a block per game, which aint too shabby.

    Peep this out my brother

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Kevin Durant is ranked top 5 alongside SF's in the NBA in DEF. He's behind James, Wallace, James Johnson, and ahead of Ariza, Igoudala, Batum, and Luol Deng.

    Pretty interesting to see Gallinari ranked in the top 10 also.

    Melo hasn't been terrible defensively either. Would be amazing if he gave Luol Deng type intensity on defense every night. I guess he exorts a lot of his energy on offense to his defense.

    Originally Posted by fender0577
    1. The year before Melo got drafted, and the 8 years he spent there.
    2010-11 Denver 50 32 .610 2nd Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2009-10 Denver 53 29 .646 1st Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2008-09 Denver 54 28 .659 1st Northwest Division 10 6 .625 Lost West Conf Finals
    2007-08 Denver 50 32 .610 2nd Northwest Division 0 4 .000 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2006-07 Denver 45 37 .549 2nd Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2005-06 Denver 44 38 .537 1st Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2004-05 Denver 49 33 .598 2nd Northwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2003-04 Denver 43 39 .524 6th Midwest Division 1 4 .200 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2002-03 Denver 17 65 .207 7th Midwest Division - - - DNQ
    1. Glen robinson's years in Milwaukee.
    2001-02 Milwaukee 41 41 .500 5th Central Division - - - DNQ
    2000-01 Milwaukee 52 30 .634 1st Central Division 10 8 .556 Lost East Conf Finals
    1999-00 Milwaukee 42 40 .512 4th Central Division 2 3 .400 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    1998-99 * Milwaukee 28 22 .560 4th Central Division 0 3 .000 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    1997-98 Milwaukee 36 46 .439 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    1996-97 Milwaukee 33 49 .402 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    1995-96 Milwaukee 25 57 .305 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    [
    Glen rob, had 2 other all-stars also, no one has taken that in account, to compair him to Melo is crazy.Melo was making the playoffs every year in Denver, when the west was really strong.Better STATS, less help, more wins, it's not even close.
    Comparing Glen Rob to Melo is pretty fair.

    Glen Robinson has actually been to the Eastern Conference finals and his team lost 4-3 against Philadelphia who went to the Finals and faced the Lakers.

    You're being too erected for Melo it's making your mind unclear.

    Carmelo: 6'8, 230 (per 36 mins)
    24.4 PPG, 6.2 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.1 spg, .5 bpg, 3 to/g. FG 46%, 3PT 31%, FT 81%

    Advanced Stats:
    TS 54%, eFG .477, TRB 9.8, AST 15.7, TOV 11.9

    Robinson: 6'7, 225
    20.2 PPG, 5.9 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, .6 bpg, 3 to/g. FG 46%, 3PT 34%, FT 82%

    Advanced Stats:
    TS 53%, eFG .485, TRB 9.8, AST 13.8, TOV 13.8

    Keep in mind, Robinson's stats are for his career, so they probably have been brought down by his last years when he was past his prime.


    Melo is better than Robinson ever was. Thats not my argument.

    I was stating how Melo is just another version of Glen Robinson's play. Talented player but didn't make his teammates better.

    Its not that hard to understand.

    Originally Posted by fender0577
    I wouldn't go that far, while "Big Dog" was a pretty good player in his own right, MELO is a much more prolific scorer, just check the stats.I think when most of us saw the title of the thread, it looked like he was knocking on Melo, while "big dog" had a good NBA career, he's almost looked at, as a bust, because at Purdue, he was so dominant, and in the NBA he didn't quite live up to the hype.I think the main reason this thread has spun out of control, is because, every time someone said something good about Melo, Metro would come back with a negative STAT, if Metro doesn't like the guy, for what ever reason,that's his opinion, but STATS don't lie, his positives, far outweigh his negatives.When people talk about his D, i just ask how many of the top 10 NBA players are elite, on both ends of the floor?Not many, maybe 3.Just my
    On your last point, its true. Its hard to find a lot of two way players in the NBA these days. They don't make them like Pippen, Grant Hill, Jordan etc. LeBron James, Wade, Paul, prime Kobe come to mind.

    Originally Posted by TakMan
    I think you took my 'lock the thread' statement the wrong way. I would never advocate any thread to be locked, no matter how controversial it is. I just found it quite funny that over the past few games, it's almost as if Anthony's made a point of winning you over. Let's face it; he's the reason we make the playoffs if this happens in the next 8 games. He's kept us in games, he's won us games, and he's made sure that even when our top defenders are doing an appalling job, he will take over and get us one more point than the other team. I completely disagree about Durant's ability to drive on opponents. He's not strong enough to take on opponents inside the post and that's why his comfort zone is in the mid-range/long-range part of the court (which he plays exceptionally). His defence is also far inferior to Anthony's (again due to him being a soft player) If people are willing to overlook Durant's defensive play in order to rank him top 5, then they need to do the same with Anthony. Maybe Anthony isn't top 5, but he's near enough there; something Glenn Robinson never was.
    Well, I'd still say Chandler is the reason why we're even a .500 team. Melo has played great and taken control of the offense and made some epic shots, probably the most epic shots of the last decade. I hope he continues to strive and excel for us.

    Glen Robinson is the worst thing Melo can be.

    If Melo can play like Dominique Wilkins (obviously he can since he's proven it in his career)....we're a dangerous team. Not the best because you need a big man to be the best team, but we'll make noise in the East if Melo continues his fire.

    I'll start a "Melo-The New Dominique Willkins Thread" once Melo keeps styling on these dudes.

    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    I dont see whats so controversial about this thread or why it should be locked, Metro proved his points and acknowledged points that other posters made.

    Several posters have exposed their ignorance in this thread, you cant just laugh off someones opinion when they bring this many facts. Its been proven many different ways that Melo is the new Glen Big Dog Robinson, hopefully for our sake he ages a little better but im disappointed with some of the posters here in this thread. Love blinds folks and i realize theres some big Melo fans here. Im a Melo fan myself but recognize his limitations and weaknesses if u want your opinion to be respected
    Tru tru.

    Originally Posted by p0nder
    Metro;

    Melo does take more total jumpshots/3 point shots then shots at at the rim. But if you break down his splits he is taking nearly 7 shots per game at the rim, which is more then any other area in the gym and he converts those at a clip of 61+% accounting for about 9 points nightly and about 1/3 of his total points.

    He creates his own offense and by being the threat he is, helps create offensive opportunities for his teammates. He drives the lane in a fearless fashion, runs the open court, knocks down his jumpers, attacks the rim and can stroke a 3 pointer too. On offense there are not many players that can stack up with Melo. His heights and length give him the ability to be a beast on the block and he often gives the Highly Valued Big Man fits when guarding him.

    As well to your point about him getting blocked, he gets blocked on about 1 shot per game but he's also averaging 0.7 blocks per as well over the last 10 and is a better defender then ANYONE thought coming into this season. We are seeing a re-tooling of Melo. His game is evolving, becoming more complete. I use this last 10 game stretch to point this out because before then Melo was injured. You are now seeing Melo in top form and what he can do for us at his best.

    Where would we be without Tyson? well probably in the basement. I see the value in the defensive stopper and the big man game. I play the post myself so I probably value the C and PF positions more then most. But Basketball is a team sport. Where would we be without Linsanity? Where would we be without JR, Shump, Novak, and Fields and Jeffereies stepping it up? And ask yourself this... where would we be without Melo these last 5 games? Would we even have a chance in the postseason without Melo scoring 28 points a night? If you are asking me TC over Melo i'll agree that I'd rather have TC in the paint taking care of that business. But Melo is as integral to what the Knicks do as anyone else on the team.

    At the end of the day the game is about putting the ball through the hoop. Melo is one of the best ever at this and that contribution should not be undervalued. Neither should his clutch factor. Hedo has made an entire NBA career off of being a 1 dimensional shooter. He gets paid millions of dollars to do that one thing. He is a terrible defender, can't create his own shot, sucks under the rim for a 6'10 guy and has little value anywhere else but camped out on the 3point line. Melo does it as good as this guy but also adds in the layups, dunks, rebounds, defense, mid range game, screening and passing that make him a complete offensive player and worth much more then Hedo turkeyglue.

    And, sure, 80% is about the minimum to be considered a "good" ft shooter he's still knocking down the clutch ones though, which is what is really important.


    Melo is just starting to heat up and give us these spectacular performances like last night. You can expect them to continue. You are positioned poorly on this Metro. Melo has you sealed off on his way for a slam dunk ally-oop. You're just gonna have to live with the fact that the best player on our favorite team is Melo and hope that he can bring you more of this. Melo is far from being done physically or mentally and I expect this trend to continue. Perhaps after sunday you will have more ammo to fire back, but until then, enjoy the show he's gonna put on against the wizards.

    A threat is more like a guy like LeBron. LeBron drives to the basket, you get the hell out the way. Kinda too slutty to call Melo a threat. Guys challenge his shot and he gets block if the opportunity is there. Melo can get the ball in the hoop, but he hasn't done it accurately this season. A 6"8 230 lb SF shooting 40% and 30% 3pt is atrocious; no matter how you look at it.

    Melo has been more perimeter oriented this season than working close the rim. And 1/3 of his offense coming close to the rim doesn't help the argument either because Melo still takes more shots AWAY from the point and the amount of points isn't a fair measurement because Melo is shooting pretty bad from those ranges. Either way, Melo's shot selection hasn't been good and could use improvement.

    Melo is a ****TY 3pt shooter and overrated. He shoots 31% from 3PT. Thats below average for a perimeter player. His game is everything under the 3pt line. He shouldn't even be taking as many 3's as he normally takes. Its very Antonie Walkerish.(Not that extreme, but if you're not a 35% or more 3pt shooter, tone it down a bit and shoot more from the area you're more accurate it)

    Good post, but Melo isn't the best player on this team this season. You may be underrating Chandler.

    I wish Melo would drive more to the basket and use his jump shot as a secondary option. I also wish we had more shooters to surround Melo's penetration because Shumpert, Smith, Fields aren't those guys. At the same time Melo is easy to block because he lacks the LeBron James or Kevin Durant athleticism.

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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    you and isayughh alreadly handled this



    Denver had some good players around Melo. Andre Miller was a good point guard, then they had Iverson who was still relevant at that point. Then the Nuggets had Billups...and they also had other good players like Kmart, Birdman, Camby, JR Smith.

    That doesnt say much that Carmelo only once was able to lead the Nuggets past the 1st round. The other 7 years Melo and the Nuggets made the playoffs, they were tossed in the 1st round.

    Those Bucks teams had their 3 stars but they never had balance or a bench. They were disappointing just like the Nuggets. Glen Big Dog coulda done more just like Melo. Ill agree with those that say Melo's a better version of Big Dog, my beef is really with the posters that are coming in here offended by the thread title. Anyone who cant see the similarities probably wasnt watching the NBA when the Big Dog played. This year has the closest similarities between Melo and Big Dog but those similarities have always been there. And i do believe overall this year has been bad for Melo, hes not as bad as the stats say he is. He had several injuries, a bad coach, and several injured teammates. At onepoint i think it did become mental for Carmelo but hes focused again and he needs to keep it up for this team to earn respect. All we really gotta do is win a playoff game or two, at this point with all the injuries i believe thats what our expectations are and should be.
    Well said.

    BTW p0nder, Melo is ranked 77th in Dunks. I don't know why you went hard comparing Melo to Hedo, its no comparison. Hedo is actually pretty good at getting to the FT line and he's more than a spot up shooter(not now, but I'd say 3 years ago when he was priming in Orlando). Hedo is probably one of the best passing SF's we've seen in the last 10 years, so lets not sell him short here. He's not better than Melo but he definitely present more than you stated.

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    A threat is more like a guy like LeBron. LeBron drives to the basket, you get the hell out the way. Kinda too slutty to call Melo a threat. Guys challenge his shot and he gets block if the opportunity is there. Melo can get the ball in the hoop, but he hasn't done it accurately this season. A 6"8 230 lb SF shooting 40% and 30% 3pt is atrocious; no matter how you look at it.

    Melo has been more perimeter oriented this season than working close the rim. And 1/3 of his offense coming close to the rim doesn't help the argument either because Melo still takes more shots AWAY from the point and the amount of points isn't a fair measurement because Melo is shooting pretty bad from those ranges. Either way, Melo's shot selection hasn't been good and could use improvement.

    Melo is a ****TY 3pt shooter and overrated. He shoots 31% from 3PT. Thats below average for a perimeter player. His game is everything under the 3pt line. He shouldn't even be taking as many 3's as he normally takes. Its very Antonie Walkerish.(Not that extreme, but if you're not a 35% or more 3pt shooter, tone it down a bit and shoot more from the area you're more accurate it)

    Good post, but Melo isn't the best player on this team this season. You may be underrating Chandler.

    I wish Melo would drive more to the basket and use his jump shot as a secondary option. I also wish we had more shooters to surround Melo's penetration because Shumpert, Smith, Fields aren't those guys. At the same time Melo is easy to block because he lacks the LeBron James or Kevin Durant athleticism.
    I think Melo is proving himself to be the best on the team and i hope he continues this. I've bolded what I agree with in your post. His numbers are down this season and i agree that before woodson Melo was vastly under-performing. I think with Woodson though we will witness a re-birth of melo's game, more post offense oriented with more shots around the rim, which we all agree is where melo's game is best suited.

    I also see Melo give a much more complete effort on the defensive end, which has been the knock against him all along. As a top 5 offensive talent if he brings his defense to a consistent, above average to pretty good grade that we are looking at a league leader and an overall top 5 player here. I will give melo the rest of the season and the post season to prove me right. If by the end of that you still feel the shot selection sucks and the effort is lacking i will concede melo is a disappointing player ala. big dog. But lets simply use the woodson era to judge Melo because before that he wasn't himself (injuries, coach throwing him under the bus).
    Last edited by p0nder; Apr 13, 2012 at 10:32. Reason: typo

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Talented player but didn't make his teammates better.
    But Melo averages more assist and less turnovers than Durant, over their careers, so how does Durant make his teammates better, but Melo doesn't.Their numbers are similar everywhere else, so how is 1 an elite player and the other isn't?

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Good post, but Melo isn't the best player on this team this season. You may be underrating Chandler.
    Chandler is more valuable, but he's definitely not a better player than Melo.

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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    I think Melo is proving himself to be the best on the team and i hope he continues this. I've bolded what I agree with in your post. His numbers are down this season and i agree that before woodson Melo was vastly under-performing. I think with Woodson though we will witness a re-birth of melo's game, more post offense oriented with more shots around the rim, which we all agree is where melo's game is best suited.

    I also see Melo give a much more complete effort on the defensive end, which has been the knock against him all along. As a top 5 offensive talent if he brings his defense to a consistent, above average to pretty good grade that we are looking at a league leader and an overall top 5 player here. I will give melo the rest of the season and the post season to prove me right. If by the end of that you still feel the shot selection sucks and the effort is lacking i will concede melo is a disappointing player ala. big dog. But lets simply use the woodson era to judge Melo because before that he wasn't himself (injuries, coach throwing him under the bus).
    After a few games? Nah. Melo lost his chance. He was horrible majority of the season. Chandler has been the most consistent and effective Knick all season.

    I'll use the Woodson Era to assess Melo but I can't say he's our best player. I'm picking Chandler first before everyone.

    Originally Posted by fender0577
    But Melo averages more assist and less turnovers than Durant, over their careers, so how does Durant make his teammates better, but Melo doesn't.Their numbers are similar everywhere else, so how is 1 an elite player and the other isn't?
    The assist thing can be overrated here. Melo averaging more assist comes from the fact he isolates himself from the offense, not trying to create for his teammates. We've seen Melo make good passes this season and Durant and Melo aren't facilitators like James, Jordan, Wade...those guys are very good at creating for their teammates.

    Durant is elite because he's in the MVP discussion.

    Melo isn't even in the top 10 of MVP discussion, he had a horrible year and under preform for us. Durant got better than last year...the NBA public is even talking about giving Durant the most improved player of the year award. Comparing Melo and Durant RIGHT now is homerish.

    Originally Posted by Rob Low
    Chandler is more valuable, but he's definitely not a better player than Melo.

    Isn't that the whole point?

    Defense is so underrated these days...

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    p0nder, you don't agree Melo is a poor 3pt shooter? Since when 31% is good?

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    The assist thing can be overrated here. Melo averaging more assist comes from the fact he isolates himself from the offense, not trying to create for his teammates. We've seen Melo make good passes this season and Durant and Melo aren't facilitators like James, Jordan, Wade...those guys are very good at creating for their teammates.

    Durant is elite because he's in the MVP discussion.

    Melo isn't even in the top 10 of MVP discussion, he had a horrible year and under preform for us. Durant got better than last year...the NBA public is even talking about giving Durant the most improved player of the year award. Comparing Melo and Durant RIGHT now is homerish.



    Metro, i just used your words, from one of your post.You said he doesn't make his teammates better, but Durant doesn't either, and i asked how Durant makes his teammates better, but averages less assist than Melo(over their careers), i think you miss that over their careers point.Assist are never overrated Metro, with all the STATS you point out, Metro, relevant or not, how could you call assist overrated, come on Metro, you just disappionted me with that one.Oh yeah you damn right i'm a homer, but i watch the games with no bias, toward or against my favorite team,(ok maybe just a little bais towards the Knicks, just a little).But i like you Metro, you got a lot of fight in you brotha.

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    Default IF KNicks didn't have Melo...

    Most you guys would be drooling to get him..typical spoil fan...when we didn't have Top 10 players in their prime..we watch them in 1 week put up 50 pts Melo with Denver..Lebron Damn Near triple double with 50 pts..and Kobe 63 pts all in 1 week....Melo is Prolific scorer..that If use properly could help lead to wining basketball..If Stat Develop low post game he be more deadly cause know you playing INSIDE OUT...not Outside Outside that last coach wanna live by...We have nice foundation stop complaining..****...GLen Robinson was #1 pick and Melo was gonna come straight out of High School which mean they at same age was dominant..as far NBA career..Big Dog had Solid career but Melo is more Prolific 6 x All star top 3-4 scorer damn near every year..got teams to playoffs n yes lost most of time to hmmm SPurs...Lakers...so stop it...

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    At the end of the day Melo's the best player on the Knicks and a more skilled player than Glenn Robinson.

    If anything Melo's a more athletic and clutch Bernard King.

    If anything Glenn Robinson is like a poor mans Melo.
    Last edited by NYCLakerfan; Apr 14, 2012 at 22:13.

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    Metro is using a 3 month sample size while Melo was playing out of position and hurt as the entire basis of his argument. Why not take into account his entire 9 year resume at least if you're gonna use stats in your argument.

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    Hi guys. Yea, it's crazy comparison. Melo >> Glendog

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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    Metro, i just used your words, from one of your post.You said he doesn't make his teammates better, but Durant doesn't either, and i asked how Durant makes his teammates better, but averages less assist than Melo(over their careers), i think you miss that over their careers point.Assist are never overrated Metro, with all the STATS you point out, Metro, relevant or not, how could you call assist overrated, come on Metro, you just disappionted me with that one.Oh yeah you damn right i'm a homer, but i watch the games with no bias, toward or against my favorite team,(ok maybe just a little bais towards the Knicks, just a little).But i like you Metro, you got a lot of fight in you brotha.
    Durant is a much more compatible teammate.
    moves without the ball, plays off the ball Jordan style and is willing to let other guys get their touches. His style doesn't clash and creates confusion on offense like how Melones style clashes with Fields, Lin, and Amare. if you think its all assist then you're being too simple minded here and if you don't know Durant and Melones are really in the same department you would know it was a waste of time to even bring it up.

    this isn't even a fight, no one here really came thru and broke through anything I actually.brought up.more solid points in favor of Melo.


    This is a bad season for Melo, despite everything he's played at a Glen Robinson level instead of Dominique level. he's overrated by many and those who dont see it now will see it later. How many times do we have to go over that he's not a top 15 player and we never needed him to be successful...because we always end up doing this and I always end up closing these arguments...anyway I'm blazed out of my mind. you're all crazy Melosexuals. His defense is soft and scoring is inefficient. When Melo is the best player on your team, you know your limits in terms of success. Primary scoring options who shoot low percentages have a high tendency to lead a team into failure especially when that player is inconcistent defensively. I wish there was crow for me to eat here but you guys really bring nothing to the table...I've admitted Melissa clutchness and scoring ability... I agree to the facts and disagree to the bull****. its that simple.

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