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Thread: Analysis for knicks offense, During 7-win streak and After Melo/Stats Came backup

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    Newbie stannhuang1's Avatar
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    Game Thread Analysis for knicks offense, During 7-win streak and After Melo/Stats Came backup

    It has been a thing that I found on knicks offense, because after Jeremy Lin got crazy, I started to look at their games. Their offense strategies has been dramatically different! I took some offense examples and I can show you guys how this stuff is changing for the knicks. I took the game VS Lakers and VS Heat.

    My drawing are not great, but one line illustrates one player, a triangle symbolizes where they're at when the shot is taken, the Line starts when their offense start moving.

    Lakers: When Lin is on point, with Fields/Walker/Jefferies/Chandler, the ball movement is as fast as personnel movement. The movement allows the people to have open looks, and it is almost like Phil Jackson's Triangle offense + D'Antoni offense. Just simply look at this pic below.



    Landry Fields/Walker almost switched wings at the same time. Chandler and Jefferies switched locations. Lin drew a big circle to get away from the double defenders after the pick. Jefferies took the shot, and Chandler is ready to pickup and rebounds.

    Note: Walker was almost open. Fields had a defender that was a bit far from him. He was free to do a ball fake and then penetrate for goal/kickout. This is the beauty of the TEAM basketball. We shoot WHEN WE'RE OPEN!

    Heat:

    Lin WITH STOUDEMIRE. ANTHONY WAS ON THE BENCH.

    When Landry gets a possibility to penetrate the basket, Novak got up towards the top, so that the defenders would not all concentrate on Fields. Lin moved to the left wing to prep for 3 or restart offense. Chandler moved towards a possible rebound. and what did STOUDEMIRE do? Almost sideline. You think he's thinking about a rebound or wanting to let Landry Fields kick out? I bet Stats wants his kickout and maybe do his Jumper...... I got nothing to say. Stats did not really move at all!

    WITH STOUDEMIRE AND ANTHONY + Lin.


    Anthony did not move around. He sleeps in his corner, waiving his hands for the ball to be in his hand. Stat sits in the middle, doing rebounds? No. Doing attack? No, but I guess he still wanted it in this example... Lin moved to the right side to weaken defense, and Chandler threw himself in the paint for rebounds. Fields was sandwiched in the middle, he couldn't move, because if he moves, his defender would have time to double on 'Melo.

    everybody was guarded, nobody had a chance to make a shot. 'Melo does his iso-jumper, and hit the rim, no basket.

    This time, the poor Stoudemire finally gets to attack..


    Lin took a pick n' roll and sent it to Stoudemire. He runs from the almost corner straight to the basket. He did it, but it wasn't pretty.
    If STATs didn't make the shots, 4 Heat players are in the paint, available for rebound. Chandler couldn't get in, because his defenders can simply help against STATs. Melo sleeps on his corner, while his defender (James) already went to defend against Stats. Lin couldn't move, and Landry couldn't either.




    ------------------------------------------------------------
    my point is, when Knicks re-gained their superstars, the offense becomes more... like everybody are glued to the ground. while Baron davis threw 8 assists with bench (ex-Jeremy Lin's startup team), it is crazy of how the offense with superstars helped Knicks NEGATIVELY while the big 3 + Lin are on the floor. Baron Davis and Lin both have similar PG styles, and that is one of the reasons why Lin threw some 8-9 assists per game without 'Melo.

    Melo's problem to the offense is that D'Antoni's offense doesn't need a star SF. When Steve Nash reigned the 05-06 season, I saw these guys in their rosters with him: Joe Johnson (got a bigger contract later, of course, 3pt capable), Shawn Marion (pro defender + 3pt), Boris Diaw (point forward, 3pt capable), and Steve Hunter/Stoudemire dominates the Paint for the suns. The start of offense starts with Pick-roll. and then all the 3pt capable shooters wait outside the line, if Stats&Nash decides to kick out.

    With Knicks's current style, Stats + Lin/Davis + Novak + JR Smith + Bill Walker/Shumpert/Fields can be a re-do of the Phoenix D'Antoni offense. I mention bill walker because he is NOT selfish. He passes the ball, do jumpers, do 3s, and defended Kobe finely with the help from Shumpert/Fields. Novak PF, Stats =C, and then SF/SG + Lin/Davis.

    With a better defensive model, ,Chandler replacing Stats can also be an good idea. He is better in rebounding, and he can do pick n' roll like Stats..

    If Josh Harrison develops his 3pt capability, it's going to be scary, because the lanes will be wide open for PG to penetrate, being that the defense cannot shrink for the PG, and PG can either finish basket, or give it to the pick-n-roll PF/C, or kickout for 3pointer. However, Josh is still a rookie. he should concentrate more on the Inside, learn stuff from Chandler and grab more rebounds for second-chance offense and kill the second-chance of the opposing team.


    Please make comments about my idea, whether you think it's good or wrong. that way we would have a good discussion. Thanks!

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    12th man
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    All time classic thread. Wow. Excellent job. You've obtain KO.com legacy.

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    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
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    This thread should be a sticked one. +1, have some green.

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    Veteran BIG APPLE SPORTS's Avatar
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    Definitely a +1 rep.

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    I guess because this thread wasn't about shepparding the herd to chant FIRE DUMBTONI, it didn't get any play.

    Shame.

    Sick thread indeed, stickie this bitch along with the other awesome underrepped thread that's going above lotta peoples' heads.

    +1

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    Originally Posted by stannhuang1
    With Knicks's current style, Stats + Lin/Davis + Novak + JR Smith + Bill Walker/Shumpert/Fields can be a re-do of the Phoenix D'Antoni offense.
    Come on really? We tried lineups like this in the past.. welcome to the world of scoring 110 and our opponents scoring 120.. sounds like another lin fan to me .

    But your offensive analysis is really great i will admit

    Why do you think no teams run d'antonis system? First of all takes an extremely gifted shooting team.. secondly putting these small lineups out there you can't play D. D'antoni is not even running his own system this year so don't even bother comparing with any steve nash videos.

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    Member zshopa's Avatar
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    Best thread i have read in a long time, you really know your basketball ! +rep

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    Nice thread with position pic....of players playing off the ball.
    there's no specific movement made in a certain derection to control the whereabout of a defender, there's no timing where a defender run into a screen, and there's no precission to repeat it over when a defender is slipping or out of place. There was no scout report on Lin's PnR with Tyson or Jefferies.

    Star players are so spoiled by their teammates (movement & screens) making it possible within 12 seconds (Carmelo, Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, KG, Duncan) to have a rookie or smaller defender on them for their jumper.....Peirce, KG, and Dirk shot so many shots over Lin & Shump....we shouldve just assign Lin & Shump to defend those players.

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    Great post by the OP. Clearly illustrates what's wrong with the offense when Melo and Amare are on the floor at the same time.

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    Such great illustrations, why this isn't getting more responses is beyond me! Great job!

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    Veteran BIG APPLE SPORTS's Avatar
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    Should ask Mods to sticky this, while watching the game i constantly refer back to your illustrations.

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    Member cheapandcheerful's Avatar
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    is it just me? I can't see the pictures..

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    Its you, I can see the pictures. This thread needs to be stickied.

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    Veteran KingofNy's Avatar
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    I've been saying this same sh*t all season. When Melo and Stat play together the ball just stops and there's NO ball movement, rebounds, defense, etc. This is where we need a coach with balls to draw up plays that fit their styles and hold them accountable when the start falling back into ISO mode. Fire MDA!

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    Another interesting statement I heard was from my brother - when he noted that Baron wasn't trying to get the ball to Lin. There were a few minutes where Lin would be open - and Baron and Melo were utilizing just 1/5th of the floor space for their own little iso movement. One of the dry spells in that 18 points 3rd quarter.


    I'd partly blame Baron for smothering the offensive tempo. 1st half they were running, gunning and forcing the Bucks to play at their pace - it was aggressive, fluid, and fast. 2nd half they let the Bucks set the pace and started struggling.

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