Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27

Thread: STAT's game. With and w/o Tyson.

  1. #1
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default STAT's game. With and w/o Tyson.

    Not everyone on here will need this article, seeing as how a number of people have touched on the topic, but I still think this is a good read to share, especially the part that used mysynergysports.com to break down STAT's possessions and where they are on the court.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]




    The top box here is Amar’e's Synergy breakdown from the 2010-11 season and the bottom box is this season. Take a look at his play type distribution. Plays that would get him shots closer to the basket, like Post-ups and plays where he is the P&R Roll Man have taken a steep decline. Post-ups constituted 12 percent 0f his possessions last season and that number has dropped down to 8.4 percent this year. Similarly, P&R Roll Man possessions accounted for 9.6 percent of his total possessions last season and that number has dropped to 8.6 percent this year. By contrast, Spot-ups, which accounted for only 10.1 percent of STAT’s possessions last season, have shot all the way up to 18.1 percent, and Off Screen plays have risen from 4.9 percent of his offense to 7.3 percent.

    Spot-ups and Off Screen shots generally tend to come farther away from the basket than Post-Ups and P&R Roll Man shots, which explains why his FGA from the shorter locations (At-Rim, 3-9 feet, 10-15 feet) are declining but his Long 2′s (16-23 feet) have stayed pretty steady.

    As you can also see, in each season Amar’e has shot a worse percentage on both Spot-ups and Off Screen plays than he has as a P&R Roll Man. His effectiveness on Post-ups has also taken a dip this year (down 18.5 percent from 53.4% to 34.9%), which can help explain the 17.7 percent drop in his FG% on shot attempts from 3-9 feet from the HoopData graphic above.

    The presence of Tyson Chandler as the Knicks’ primary screener in the pick-and-roll has led to Stoudemire being used much differently this year than in years past. More often, he’s an outlet man coming in behind the primary action to stretch the defense or is spotted up in the corner for the same reason. This has led to him taking a higher percentage of outside shots than he normally does, shots that he is also hitting at a lower than normal percentage, and explains the decline in his overall FG%.
    Amar'e without Tyson on the court: Sorry for the poor camera work, but be sure to keep your eyes on STAT in all 5 vids.





    Amar'e with Tyson on the court:







    Now, the overall success of the plays is not my point. Look at STAT's action with Tyson on the bench vs Tyson on the court. If he's not running the PnR, he's really not doing much. So while he looked sluggish and less explosive earlier on, I wasn't so much worried about him getting blocked at the rim, as much as it seemed like he was only getting to the rim when Tyson was on the pine.

    In the playoffs (this year and in the future) we're going to need both our 4 AND 5 produce on the court, together. We can't wait for Tyson to sit down and have STAT actually involved in the play.

    The question is...can STAT produce last year's numbers with Tyson as a front court mate. Whether or not it's MDA's "system" is irrelevant. What will the Knicks get from Amar'e Stoudemire if he's not running the high PnR?

    This is not meant to hate on him, diss him, or anything like that. It's an honest question. Because he primarily ran the high PnR with Nash in Phoenix, ran it for us last year once he and Felton got comfortable, and he runs it now when Tyson isn't on the court. But Tyson will be on the court more often than not in the playoffs, so....what then?

    To me, this is bigger issue than Melo's shot selection.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Mar 10, 2012 at 19:11.

  2. #2
    12th man
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono
    Posts
    11,260
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I don't know if Stat has it in him, its like asking a pitcher to changing his throwing form or a boxer to switch his stance.

    Stat just wants to play center on offense. Only if this was the NFL. Have Chandler on defense and Amare on offense.

  3. #3
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I don't know if Stat has it in him, its like asking a pitcher to changing his throwing form or a boxer to switch his stance.

    Stat just wants to play center on offense. Only if this was the NFL. Have Chandler on defense and Amare on offense.
    This is exactly why I'm on board with moving him, if a deal can be had. I don't dislike him, I'm frustrated, but I don't hate the man...I just don't see $18M, $19M, $21M, and $23M worth of complimentary basketball in his game, at least for what the Knicks need.

    Getting rid of Melo (which isn't gonna happen) would solve absolutely nothing if STAT is still playing PF, next to a traditional center. And if STAT is playing center...well, you have very little interior defense.

    It's not completely his fault. He was groomed in the system for the majority of his professional career....but we don't need that from him right now.

    I just don't know if he can provide the team with what they do need. And if we don't have the answer to that question....how long do we wait while we try to figure it out?

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    280
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    I keep getting "this video is private" when I click on them.

  5. #5
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Originally Posted by kinein
    I keep getting "this video is private" when I click on them.
    Should be fixed now.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    280
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Should be fixed now.
    thanks!

    I really think Amare needs to spend time watching video

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Sorry to go off the topic: I actually see Lin missed the chances to pass the ball to Melo and Chandler in the paint. I think we need to let Lin sit on top for a bit to let the play develops/people get open instead of going to p-n-r right a way.

  8. #8
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Originally Posted by red32
    Sorry to go off the topic: I actually see Lin missed the chances to pass the ball to Melo and Chandler in the paint. I think we need to let Lin sit on top for a bit to let the play develops/people get open instead of going to p-n-r right a way.
    I'm sure there are other things that we can pick apart in the 5 videos, but I'm mainly talking about Stoudemire's game when he's on the court with Chandler.

    Lin finding people at the appropriate time can be corrected; Melo's shot selection can be corrected; but Amar'e would seemingly have to completely change his game to be useful on the court with Chandler out there as well.

    We assume that STAT has enough versatility to his game, that he can operate in an offense where we use our more one dimensional center as the primary P&R Man.

    But STAT is showing that when he's not the P&R Man, he's just a bystander. When he's standing there to create space and gets the ball -- he takes that awkward, out of rhythm jump shot, or he puts it on the court and usually fumbles it away, he often charges into someone and gets an offensive foul, or takes a bad shot.

    So for all of the criticism of other components of our team, how come no one wants to touch the fact that our $80 million PF seemingly can't function at a high level next to our $60 million center?

    Forget the shots Melo takes, forget MDA, forget everything else for a second....and think (and if you can find video evidence, even better) what does Amar'e have in his game that suggests he can operate in an offense where he isn't the primary P&R Man?

    Tyson can still get us offensive/defensive boards, scoring down low, and most importantly stellar defense.

    Amar'e gives us what?

    If he's not setting the pick and crashing to the rim, what is he doing? I can't remember seeing him successfully play any other way.

  9. #9
    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/Mount Vernon NY
    Posts
    1,357
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I don't know if Stat has it in him, its like asking a pitcher to changing his throwing form or a boxer to switch his stance.

    Stat just wants to play center on offense. Only if this was the NFL. Have Chandler on defense and Amare on offense.

    If this was the NFL we'd be the Giants and had won 2 SB trophies in the last 4 years

    Joke aside, it's an open secret that Amar'e is much better at center.
    During offseason management said though that he wants to switch to the 4 to prevent his body from the physical pounding he gets at center so we signed Tyson.

    Tyson has been great and he'S our MVP, but Amar'e struggles with him on the court.

    A trade for Joe Johnson would have been better for both Amar'e and D'Antoni and probably our record too.

    A typical D'Antoni guard/forward and a good compliment to STAT.

    Melo and Chandler are just the wrong players for the D'Antoni system and the personell we have like STAT, Fields, Walker etc.

    Imo it's either Melo, Chandler and a new coach or D'Antoni, STAT, Fields and a different SF/SG like Joe Johnson, STAT at center and a PF who does the dirty work like Ibaka or Love.

  10. #10
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Well...I guess we'll see what happens in the second half?

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    P-n-r is basically a 2-player game. So it's basically you do it w/Chandler (when he's in the game) or you do it w/Stat (when Chandler is out). When Stat was w/the Suns (and the last game against the Bucks), he played better when there is space in the paint.

    I think he's still got a lot to offer, but if he can't get back to the old explosive self, he would need to change "mode" to make himself a more defensive stop player.

  12. #12
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Originally Posted by red32
    P-n-r is basically a 2-player game. So it's basically you do it w/Chandler (when he's in the game) or you do it w/Stat (when Chandler is out). When Stat was w/the Suns (and the last game against the Bucks), he played better when there is space in the paint.

    I think he's still got a lot to offer, but if he can't get back to the old explosive self, he would need to change "mode" to make himself a more defensive stop player.
    Plenty of people kept telling me, and continue to tell me to give it time, and that he'll turn it around. When I ask what is that belief based on, can you show me examples of what you're talking about in his game....I get nothing.

    Not personally attacking you, but that answer isn't good enough. Can't run an organization like that.

    And if you really think Amar'e "becoming" a defensive stopper is the answer....that's funny.

  13. #13
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Stoudemire vs Bucks w/o Tyson: 27 points, 11 rebounds, 11/15 FGs.

    Stoudemire vs 76ers with Tyson: 9 points, 5 rebounds, 4/9 FGS.


    But there are those on here who wants to trade Melo...alright.

  14. #14
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    962
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    I think stat is on the decline...so many times today where he was in bad position, didn't box out, was unready for passes. He has no confidence right now. I don't wanna say he's washed yet but look at T-Mac and all the other out of high school players.

  15. #15
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,172
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    WITH TYSON ON THE COURT:






    Should this team fire MDA, and get a coach that wants a more traditional "inside-out" approach where STAT would have to spend a lot of time in the post...this is what his post game looks like:



    #1, he's not even on the low block to begin....but whatever, notice how the double team isn't there on the catch...he's not a threat. Brand takes him one on one, STAT IMMEDIATELY faces and drives baseline, he goes...no. where. Brand plays it well, uses the baseline to his advantage, and forces Amar'e to either go out of bounds, take a charge, or reverse and try to go middle...he does, and THEN the help comes.

    Now yea, STAT makes the right play, but getting forced in another direction then passing is not exactly how you describe a good post game. You want your guy to be dangerous to the point where he needs to be doubled on the catch.

    I'm not confident that Amar'e can give you what you get out of a Dirk, Tyler Hansbrough, or a Lamarcus Aldridge, in the post. Those 3 guys have 3 different styles, and means, of being effective in the post....but STAT doesn't show signs of any of them...if I'm wrong, you can easily correct me with some video.

    ONCE AGAIN...NO TYSON, NO PROBLEM, STAT WILL MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO CRASH THE PAINT:




    This is not enough. This is not good enough. I can't have a $100M man basically having one skill set, that he only aggressively utilizes when a teammate is on the bench.

    That's an absurd notion.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •