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Thread: Mike Woodson to lean on stars

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by red32
    BUT, wasn't Melo playing PG before he got hurt? So he was the focus of the offensive/running the offensive, right? And how did that turn out? So are we saying that he's been unhappy ever since he got here? Hmm... Could this whole thing just be a case of the post-purchase rationalization?
    Lebron left Cleveland for that main reason

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by Scipio
    Me too. Agreed.

    You could see how Dumbphoney wasn`t interested in changing anything by the way he would sub players. what I mean is that he didn`t coach the actual game that was taking place in front of him.

    He had his sub patterns and minutes for the players worked out before the game already had started. Every game it was the same no matter what was happening in the actual game. `Melo would always play all the first quarter then sit at the start of the second and so on.

    Surely your substitution of players should depend largely on what is happening in the game. He waouls sit players when they were hot and keep players in despite the fact that they were playing terribly. This was because he had already decided on his sub patterns before the game and no matter what happened he never deviated from his pattern which shows what a terrible coach he was. What kind of coach doesn`t actually coach the game in front of him?

    Alright, another Great Post....
    u got Dantoni's game-coaching down-pact

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    These are the posts I'm talking about...what's going on around here?

    Melo was asked to play point forward...but he's not a point forward. Then when Lin emerged and he got back, he was asked to space the court by hanging out on the perimeter, near the 3-point line, and be ready to catch and shoot.

    Not one off-ball screen was set for him, he had no plays called for him in the post. When he got the ball, Isoed, and observed the floor as he likes to do...no one was moving, because it wasn't the play call, the play is for him to catch and shoot. He stood there looking at everyone, and everyone stood there looking at him, at that point in time they're expecting to either walk or run back up the court off of a made basket or transition D.

    MDA looked at this, and said "shoot the ball, come on, lets go lets go lets go lets go" as opposed to "maybe I should work some scripted isolations into the game plan for Melo."

    Post-purchase rationalization assumes that we've never seen Melo at Syracuse, Denver, or with Team USA, and we can't identify the strengths and weaknesses of his game.

    Ask yourself this: maybe some people were constantly rationalizing his being misused in this offense.

    I'm cool with those who question his effort, defensive awareness (these silly fouls have to stop), and I guess you can throw body language in there...I dunno how much his teammates are saying "god damn...Melo is sagging his shoulders dawg..." but I guess it's a bad look to have in front of fans.
    I understand the offense was different after he rejoined the team, fine. What about before that? Melo handled the ball, and he was the focus of the offensive, but yet, it didn't really go anywhere.

    If you do take a look at the whole time when he was in Denver, how much did they go in the playoffs? And really, what does team USA have anything to do with anything? It was a all-star team.

    Just how much adjustment does a team have to make for ONE player for that player to perform?!

    I'm not taking D'Antoni's side. Really I'm not. I'm just saying that let's do take a look at this player, with what we "paid" to get him, maybe, and maybe, we paid way too much for a player that's just not really that good (OK, if you will, under performed), and we are trying to make excuses for the decision (purchase)?

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by red32
    I understand the offense was different after he rejoined the team, fine. What about before that? Melo handled the ball, and he was the focus of the offensive, but yet, it didn't really go anywhere.

    If you do take a look at the whole time when he was in Denver, how much did they go in the playoffs? And really, what does team USA have anything to do with anything? It was a all-star team.

    Just how much adjustment does a team have to make for ONE player for that player to perform?!

    I'm not taking D'Antoni's side. Really I'm not. I'm just saying that let's do take a look at this player, with what we "paid" to get him, maybe, and maybe, we paid way too much for a player that's just not really that good (OK, if you will, under performed), and we are trying to make excuses for the decision (purchase)?
    Still not playing to his strengths, so it's the same situation. Asking a player who isn't a point forward...to play point forward, is not playing to his strengths.

    It's not a situation where people are making excuses, it's a situation where we know what Carmelo does well, and he was not afforded the opportunity to do those things...because of the schematics of the offense.

    It's like taking Dwight Howard out of the paint, and wondering why he isn't performing. Well...he's a center, he operates in the paint...if he's not in the paint...he's not playing to his strengths.

    When Melo isolates, he needs movement off the ball to create driving angles, passing angles, etc.



    What is the rest of the team doing right there? Why is everyone looking at Melo? Notice the shot clock, 12 seconds have elapsed, so that's not a quick, heat check shot.

    12 seconds went by, Melo got the ball behind the 3-pt line....why is he still behind the 3 point line 12 seconds into the possession? Why is everyone else is on the same side of the court, save for Bibby who's in the corner.

    If your analysis of that play is that "he should have hit the shot" then we're not even reading the same book, so we're definitely not on the same page.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Still not playing to his strengths, so it's the same situation. Asking a player who isn't a point forward...to play point forward, is not playing to his strengths.

    It's not a situation where people are making excuses, it's a situation where we know what Carmelo does well, and he was not afforded the opportunity to do those things...because of the schematics of the offense.

    It's like taking Dwight Howard out of the paint, and wondering why he isn't performing. Well...he's a center, he operates in the paint...if he's not in the paint...he's not playing to his strengths.

    When Melo isolates, he needs movement off the ball to create driving angles, passing angles, etc.



    What is the rest of the team doing right there? Why is everyone looking at Melo? Notice the shot clock, 12 seconds have elapsed, so that's not a quick, heat check shot.

    12 seconds went by, Melo got the ball behind the 3-pt line....why is he still behind the 3 point line 12 seconds into the possession? Why is everyone else is on the same side of the court, save for Bibby who's in the corner.

    If your analysis of that play is that "he should have hit the shot" then we're not even reading the same book, so we're definitely not on the same page.
    Well, it's just that. How much do we have to do for him? Not this. Oh not that either.

    I was saying that he was handling the ball, so he could easier get to his comfort place, ISO, and whatever. You can't say that he wasn't getting enough touches or not getting the ball.

    Your screen cap shows a lot - when you ISO, what happens most of the time is other players would just fan out (to give you room). What happens? They become bystanders. And why is he shooting a 3-pt w/12 sec left on the clock?!

    No, I'm not saying that "he should've hit the shot." It's his playing style and the overall salary-to-performance ratio that I'm questioning.

    I do hope that he starts playing, or start playing better, now that D'Antoni is gone, and the Knicks get back on track. Assuming that Woodson doesn't get to be the head coach next year, and we get Jackson or whoever as the new head guy. I don't wanna hear the same old song about he's playing under another new offensive system when he's not performing.

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    i dont think he still gets it.

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    Default When I see the members with 3000 plus posts POSTING

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Great Post....
    I see the knowledgeable guys here who get it posting....WELL SAID ALL...
    Big away game tonight..We win I am a believer...DrB

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    Originally Posted by VeryGundy
    If Stat and Melo can put up all-star numbers, I don't really care what type of system Woodson deploys.
    That's the issue many posters are ignoring in this thread. Our "stars" haven't been playing like stars. And when that is pointed out, these people bring up Melo and Stat's past accomplishments. What matters is now and the future.

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by LA KNICKS GUY
    That's the issue many posters are ignoring in this thread. Our "stars" haven't been playing like stars. And when that is pointed out, these people bring up Melo and Stat's past accomplishments. What matters is now and the future.
    Up to this point they've been forced to be role players which was a big problem

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    Originally Posted by LA KNICKS GUY
    That's the issue many posters are ignoring in this thread. Our "stars" haven't been playing like stars. And when that is pointed out, these people bring up Melo and Stat's past accomplishments. What matters is now and the future.
    I am almost positive that Melo would bounce back and dominate again. I can't say the same about Stat. He seemed to have lost some of his explosiveness.

  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Still not playing to his strengths, so it's the same situation. Asking a player who isn't a point forward...to play point forward, is not playing to his strengths.

    It's not a situation where people are making excuses, it's a situation where we know what Carmelo does well, and he was not afforded the opportunity to do those things...because of the schematics of the offense.

    It's like taking Dwight Howard out of the paint, and wondering why he isn't performing. Well...he's a center, he operates in the paint...if he's not in the paint...he's not playing to his strengths.

    When Melo isolates, he needs movement off the ball to create driving angles, passing angles, etc.



    What is the rest of the team doing right there? Why is everyone looking at Melo? Notice the shot clock, 12 seconds have elapsed, so that's not a quick, heat check shot.

    12 seconds went by, Melo got the ball behind the 3-pt line....why is he still behind the 3 point line 12 seconds into the possession? Why is everyone else is on the same side of the court, save for Bibby who's in the corner.

    If your analysis of that play is that "he should have hit the shot" then we're not even reading the same book, so we're definitely not on the same page.
    Lmfao. That picture is so disappointing.

    I die a little inside whenever I saw those dead end iso's by Carmelo. I'm not saying it's not going to happen with Mike Woodson, but someone would have to specifically point out a play to me that looks like that one during this 3 game win streak with Woodson as the coach.

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    Originally Posted by Abxtraxion
    Lmfao. That picture is so disappointing.

    I die a little inside whenever I saw those dead end iso's by Carmelo. I'm not saying it's not going to happen with Mike Woodson, but someone would have to specifically point out a play to me that looks like that one during this 3 game win streak with Woodson as the coach.

    Hey, he has a 30% chance of that shot going in hahaha. He will never be a team player deep inside. I hope Woodson scared him a little into being a team player. His shots are still off the last 3 games, but at least he is playing team ball. I hope when we are behind in games, he doesn't turn on his Hero/Iso/Selfish mode.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    These are the posts I'm talking about...what's going on around here?

    Melo was asked to play point forward...but he's not a point forward. Then when Lin emerged and he got back, he was asked to space the court by hanging out on the perimeter, near the 3-point line, and be ready to catch and shoot.

    Not one off-ball screen was set for him, he had no plays called for him in the post. When he got the ball, Isoed, and observed the floor as he likes to do...no one was moving, because it wasn't the play call, the play is for him to catch and shoot. He stood there looking at everyone, and everyone stood there looking at him, at that point in time they're expecting to either walk or run back up the court off of a made basket or transition D.

    MDA looked at this, and said "shoot the ball, come on, lets go lets go lets go lets go" as opposed to "maybe I should work some scripted isolations into the game plan for Melo."

    Post-purchase rationalization assumes that we've never seen Melo at Syracuse, Denver, or with Team USA, and we can't identify the strengths and weaknesses of his game.

    Ask yourself this: maybe some people were constantly rationalizing his being misused in this offense.

    I'm cool with those who question his effort, defensive awareness (these silly fouls have to stop), and I guess you can throw body language in there...I dunno how much his teammates are saying "god damn...Melo is sagging his shoulders dawg..." but I guess it's a bad look to have in front of fans.
    Good post him having the ball at the start of the season was also putting him at another uncomfortable situation but on the opposite side of the spectrum, he needs to get the ball in his sweet spots and allowed to go to work often and thats whats probably gonna be happening now.

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    Originally Posted by Real NY Baller
    yet this might still have to be said in some other unheard of languages, lol

    great post dude.
    What "unheard of languages"?

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by red32
    BUT, wasn't Melo playing PG before he got hurt? So he was the focus of the offensive/running the offensive, right? And how did that turn out? So are we saying that he's been unhappy ever since he got here? Hmm... Could this whole thing just be a case of the post-purchase rationalization?
    Good point! I had that wonder too.
    I'd say MDA did the right thing to stick with the "working system". The problem was, he didn't have the power to change Melo's mind. And that should be done. So it was bound to happen (MDA's leaving).

    I can only say, his sacrifice is worth it. And meant to be. Whatever it takes to bring the players together. Whatever it takes to give Melo time, space, and excuse to adjust to the fact that there's a rising star in the Knicks.

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