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Thread: Should the NYKnicks trade Jeremy Lin?

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    Default Should the NYKnicks trade Jeremy Lin?

    I thought this was a good article that deserves its own thread.


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    After you're done reading, check out the movie Moneyball (2011).


    -----begin article-----

    Let’s play a game: Should the Knicks trade Jeremy Lin? And if they did, what could they get?

    Three days ago, that seemed like the world’s most preposterous question. Now, with Mike D’Antoni gone, and his replacement Mike Woodson already talking about replacing Lin in the starting lineup and building his offense around Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire, it’s far from far-fetched. Of course, the NBA trade deadline just passed, so no deal could happen until the off-season.

    Excuse me while I go put on my Nomex blazer. I got a lot of angry, but polite and thoughtful, feedback from irate Lin fans when I suggested that D’Antoni’s departure could spell bad news for Lin. So let me ask politely: don’t kill the messenger. Let’s take this thought experiment on its own terms and actually make a reasonable attempt at determining Lin’s trade value.

    If you’ve got your own trade proposal, please add it to the comments below. If you think the mere thought of trading Lin is too ridiculous to even contemplate (0r even if you think it’s an awesome idea,) click on this poll.

    So what is Lin worth? Let’s head straight to the stats. My friend John Hollinger creates NBA analytic stats and the most useful tool for this kind of comparison is Player Efficiency Rating. It tallies a player’s positive accomplishments such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, as well negative ones such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. It’s expressed on a per minute basis and adjusted for a team’s scoring pace, so that a player on a low-scoring team isn’t penalized. The league average is 15.

    PER is a solid stat that does a good job of equating the contributions of players at different positions. According to PER, the top six players in the NBA are LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Manu Ginobili and Dwight Howard.

    What does PER say about Lin?

    * His PER is 20.37, which ranks him 34th overall in the NBA.


    * The five players just ahead of him are Tim Duncan, Marcin Gornat, DeMarcus Cousins, Kevin Garnett, and Josh Smith.

    * The five players just behind him are Pau Gasol, Andrea Bargnani, Ersan Ilyasova, David Lee and Drew Gooden.

    *Lin is the highest ranking Knick, ahead of Tyson Chandler (50th), Carmelo Anthony (55th), Steve Novak (60th) and Amare Stoudemire (85th.)

    *Lin ranks 10th among point guards, just behind Deron Williams, Kyrie Irving, and Lou Williams and ahead of Rodney Stuckey, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, and Brandon Jennings. Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, and Russell Westbrook are the top three point guards according to PER.

    Of course, Lin is a special case. He’s got a much smaller body of work than most of these players. You can look upon that as a positive—he can only improve. Or a negative—it’s just a small sample and teams will make defensive adjustments.

    Lin is also a very attractive player from a salary cap point of view. He’s making around $613,000 this year, pro-rated for the shortened season. At the end of the season, he becomes a restricted free agent which means that the Knicks could secure him to a contract of $5 million (the team’s mid-level exception) or less before any potential trade. Lin also has a unique marketing appeal both in the U.S and internationally that increases his appeal.

    Let’s look at some recent comps of actual trades. Golden State guard Monta Ellis, who ranks below Lin in PER Lin at 49th, was traded at the deadline for oft-injured center Andrew Bogut. On the low end, Cleveland’s young point guard, Ramon Sessions brought Laker veteran Derek Fisher.

    Here are eight players who have either been on the block recently or otherwise provide an interesting trade pairing for Lin. I did not attempt to match salaries, which would need to be done under the NBA salary cap rules.


    Would you trade Jeremy Lin for any of these eight players?

    Rajon Rondo, Celtics (17.85 PER, 67th) The 26-year old Rondo was the subject of swirling trade rumors this week, the most notable being a deal for Pau Gasol.

    Pau Gasol, Lakers: (20.18 PER, 35th) One of the keys to the Lakers championship teams, Gasol is skilled and versatile, but he’s also aging and expensive, which may be why he wasn’t dealt.

    Andrew Bynum, Lakers: (22.29 PER, 14th) The Lakers were reluctant to trade Bynum, a favorite of owner Jerry Buss, in a deal for Dwight Howard. Bynum is young and has great potential, but is also injury prone.

    Josh Smith, Hawks: (20.38 PER, 33rd) The eight-year veteran is reportedly disgruntled at the Hawks’ lack of progress toward real championship contention, and there were conflicting rumors about whether he demanded a trade

    Chris Bosh, Heat: (18.65 PER, 58th) If the Heat fail to win the championship, they might be inclined to move 33.3% of their Big Three. One rumor had the high-paid Bosh going to Houston for Luis Scola and Kyle Lowry.

    Stephen Curry: Golden State: (PER 21.52, 23rd) The Knicks coveted the sharp shooting Curry in the 2009 draft, and his name was mentioned in connection with a Rajon Rondo deal that didn’t get much traction.

    Brandon Jennings: Milwaukee: (PER 18.84, 58th) With Monta Ellis now in Milwaukee, the Bucks might consider dealing Jennings, a shoot-first point guard very similar to Curry, Ellis’ backcourt mate with the Warriors. The Knicks passed on Jennings in that 2009 draft.

    Ricky Rubio, Timberwolves: (14.86 PER, 134th) Possibly the closest comp to Lin when off-court factors are considered, Rubio has a huge following in Spain, and has shown flashes of brilliance in his brief NBA career. A torn ACL ended his season prematurely, although he is expected to recover fully.

    If you were the Knicks GM, what would teams have to give you to get Lin? Share your trade scenarios below.

    -----end article-----
    Last edited by onex0is0; Mar 19, 2012 at 06:14.

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    Should Knicksonline amnesty onex0is0?

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    Don't get me wrong, I want Lin in NY.

    I just post the article because there are still a lot of closet haters and Lin-non-believers on this forum. You know, the Screamin' A. Smith type - people in denial.

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    Well I would certainly trade Lin for Rubio in a heartbeat.

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    I think any of those trades are crazy. Lin does not have enough play time to accurately assess him.

    I think a small market team would consider making the trade though as Lin would likely boost attendance.

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    The one 1, i wouldn't trade him for is rubio, all those other players, hell yeah.7 of those players are all-stars, our borderline all-stars, i love lin, but if i had a chance to get any of those guys, i'd do it ASAP.Because it's the right basketball move, period.

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    The NBA is about making money.
    There isn't another athlete on this planet over the next decade that can 'rack' in the 'potential' money that Lin can.

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    Why would you want to trade Lin for any of those players... Lin is 23 and will only get better, sure he makes mistakes but how many seasons has this kid played in the NBA as a starter???

    Then on top of that you surround him with Melo, Chandler, Amare and now your saying ok Lin your the PG make this work. It's not that easy especially for a PG with little experience Lin has. He logs in mins, plays with heart every night and comes cheap, whats not to love? just let him develop and keep it moving.

    S.Curry --- to injury prone.


    Jennings--- i like jennings but im not parting ways with Lin just for Jennings. Jennings would demand alot of money which would shoot our cap space in the heart even further.

    Rondo--- Cant shoot worth spit, struggles at the line. He would thrive in this system though, but im not willing to part with Lin for him

    Rubio---- injured do not want him.

    The rest of the players are pointless because if were packaging Lin for them that means we are back to square one and stuck without a PG again.

    in conclusion how would you get any of these players for Lin anyway? none of their salaries match... which means we would be blowing the team up making packages to make these trades work. Which would fu*k up our chemistry and put our run at the playoffs in jeopardy & didn't the trade deadline come and go already *Face Palm*

    I would cut someone pick up derek fisher off waivers. We could use a extra Vet PG on this team because lets be real here Baron is injury prone and can blow his back out any moment & bibby is pretty much unreliable.
    Last edited by NYk_Reloaded718; Mar 19, 2012 at 08:56.

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    Never mind whether I would or would not....PER is a relatively irrelevant statistic. The Celtics wouldn't trade us Rondo for Lin. We'd have to add. Probably a lot. And I think that's the theme here for a lot of those players.

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    Originally Posted by Almost_famous718
    I would cut someone pick up derek fisher off waivers. We could use a extra Vet PG on this team because lets be real here Baron is injury prone and can blow his back out any moment & bibby is pretty much unreliable.[/I]
    I gave this some thought myself.

    I doubt it will happen, but the idea is there and has some validity. He's a leader, no doubt about that. His game is on its very last legs though.

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    I'd trade him for all those player besides Jennings, Smith, and maybe Curry just because of his health.

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    Originally Posted by onex0is0
    If you were the Knicks GM, what would teams have to give you to get Lin? Share your trade scenarios below.

    -----end article-----
    I don't know why my previous post got lost, but I'll say this again:

    I will not trade Lin for any other player.

    I will build my team around Lin and get me the championship within 3 years.

  13. #13
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    That's a lot of good players in a Lin trade but if the Knicks did decide to do the trade it would probably be to move Stat and his albatross contract rather than trading Lin and using Lin's low salary as a kicker to entice teams into taking Stat.

    Rajon Rondo, Celtics (17.85 PER, 67th) The 26-year old Rondo was the subject of swirling trade rumors this week, the most notable being a deal for Pau Gasol.

    Pau Gasol, Lakers: (20.18 PER, 35th) One of the keys to the Lakers championship teams, Gasol is skilled and versatile, but he’s also aging and expensive, which may be why he wasn’t dealt.

    Andrew Bynum, Lakers: (22.29 PER, 14th) The Lakers were reluctant to trade Bynum, a favorite of owner Jerry Buss, in a deal for Dwight Howard. Bynum is young and has great potential, but is also injury prone.

    Josh Smith, Hawks: (20.38 PER, 33rd) The eight-year veteran is reportedly disgruntled at the Hawks’ lack of progress toward real championship contention, and there were conflicting rumors about whether he demanded a trade

    Chris Bosh, Heat: (18.65 PER, 58th) If the Heat fail to win the championship, they might be inclined to move 33.3% of their Big Three. One rumor had the high-paid Bosh going to Houston for Luis Scola and Kyle Lowry.

    Stephen Curry: Golden State: (PER 21.52, 23rd) The Knicks coveted the sharp shooting Curry in the 2009 draft, and his name was mentioned in connection with a Rajon Rondo deal that didn’t get much traction.

    Brandon Jennings: Milwaukee: (PER 18.84, 58th) With Monta Ellis now in Milwaukee, the Bucks might consider dealing Jennings, a shoot-first point guard very similar to Curry, Ellis’ backcourt mate with the Warriors. The Knicks passed on Jennings in that 2009 draft.

    Ricky Rubio, Timberwolves: (14.86 PER, 134th) Possibly the closest comp to Lin when off-court factors are considered, Rubio has a huge following in Spain, and has shown flashes of brilliance in his brief NBA career. A torn ACL ended his season prematurely, although he is expected to recover fully.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Well I would certainly trade Lin for Rubio in a heartbeat.
    Thank God you said heartbeat.

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    I love what LIN did for this team, but some of you guys are delusional, if you think he has a higher upside than Curry, Rondo, or Jennings.Please stop saying he's a cash cow, we all know he is, but the knicks make money regardless, we were winning 23 games a year, still turning a profit, this is the knicks.

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