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Thread: Should the NYKnicks trade Jeremy Lin?

  1. #46
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    He also has many flaws that need to be addressed if he is ever to be categorised as a star. Miami had his number, and good defensive teams will follow. He needs to add versatility to his game and improve his ball handling abilities. Also his defence is nothing special. Only time will tell as to whether he will cut it at an all star level. In the meantime, this hype is not really adding constructively to the situation.
    Fair enough!

    p.s. Basketball is a team game. I like to see Lin play well. However, only a Knicks win can bring me true peace.

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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    Why would you even bring up the economics of basketball as one of its most fundamental aspects. It's not. Basketball is a sport. How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport. Watching a load of bandwagon fans on tv holding signs that state "We are here to watch Jeremy Lin" indicates how dumbed down a sport can become when people buy into hype created by the league and the media for commercial purposes.

    Did I know about Lin's contract situation; No I didn't. These people get paid far more than what they offer society anyway so the economics of professional sports is not something I examine in detail. Still, the theory behind it stands, that whilst bandwagoners elevate you to godly status when you haven't proven yourself, you as a player can demand more that you're worth (maybe not so much next season, but in seasons to come) as a result of your idiot followers who you can claim are bringing money into the franchise because of you. How many new members on here alone since the emergence of Lin? Basketball is a team sport, and unless we are talking Michael Jordan, one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport. Especially someone like Lin who is not even a top 10 PG (for the moment anyway).


    EDIT: Just to add; Stoudamire and Anthony at least have a history of positive contributions that extends to more than just 20 games. Yes they milked the Knicks for everything they could get, but they were proven performers. What's Lin's history of contributions? The only thing Lin could use to attempt to increase his worth, is the bandwagon mob and a few games worth of performances. Remember; Form is temporary, class is permanent. Lin's ability should be assessed throughout the space of a few years; not a few games.

    Lin did a lot of good things in his short time. Melo and Stats did a lot of harms in a short time. 2 superstars turned into 2 bums in a matter of months. Lin is a scrub that is on the verge of turning into a star.

  3. #48
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    Why would you even bring up the economics of basketball as one of its most fundamental aspects. It's not. Basketball is a sport. How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport. Watching a load of bandwagon fans on tv holding signs that state "We are here to watch Jeremy Lin" indicates how dumbed down a sport can become when people buy into hype created by the league and the media for commercial purposes.

    Did I know about Lin's contract situation; No I didn't. These people get paid far more than what they offer society anyway so the economics of professional sports is not something I examine in detail. Still, the theory behind it stands, that whilst bandwagoners elevate you to godly status when you haven't proven yourself, you as a player can demand more that you're worth (maybe not so much next season, but in seasons to come) as a result of your idiot followers who you can claim are bringing money into the franchise because of you. How many new members on here alone since the emergence of Lin? Basketball is a team sport, and unless we are talking Michael Jordan, one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport. Especially someone like Lin who is not even a top 10 PG (for the moment anyway).


    EDIT: Just to add; Stoudamire and Anthony at least have a history of positive contributions that extends to more than just 20 games. Yes they milked the Knicks for everything they could get, but they were proven performers. What's Lin's history of contributions? The only thing Lin could use to attempt to increase his worth, is the bandwagon mob and a few games worth of performances. Remember; Form is temporary, class is permanent. Lin's ability should be assessed throughout the space of a few years; not a few games.
    1. How is the SPORT - DUMBED down. Because people have their favorites? When someone wears a Carmelo Jersey, or Amare Jersey - is that dumbed down? Before you even answer that. To say no - already shows HYPOCRISY.
    * Who are you to tell those fans - who have paid hundreds and some thousands of dollars - to watch those games. How they want to express their support. When they cheer for the Knicks winning - it sounds and feels the same as someone 60 years old 20 years old or 5 years old.
    * What you need to respect is the culture of fans from various ethnic groups or basketball preferences and how they choose to communicate. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to demean the sport of basketball.
    * This "Dumbed Down Basketball" makes no sense - In fact if you look at the PG figures - almost every team that has played the Knicks in the last 20 games has experienced an ABOVE-average performance. Teams WANT to compete with the Knicks.
    * Derrick Rose experienced a Grade 1 GROIN injury and PLAYED 3 more quarters AND DUNKED THE BALL vs the Knicks. If anything your statement that the PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL LEVEL - is DUMBED DOWN - is proven FALSE.


    You should know Jeremy Lin's basketball contract situation - if you are going to make a claim.....


    TAKMAN QUOTE:
    and giving Lin an excuse to demand much more money than he's worth in the Basketball market.
    You yourself have made commentary disparaging Lin - Have introduced the Market aspect, Have introduced the Contract aspect.

    You can't start a conversation - and then pretend you did not initiate the topics. You lack accountability and responsibility for your own words.

    * I'm holding you accountable.


    Why would you even bring up the economics of basketball as one of its most fundamental aspects. It's not. Basketball is a sport. How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport. Watching a load of bandwagon fans on tv holding signs that state "We are here to watch Jeremy Lin" indicates how dumbed down a sport can become when people buy into hype created by the league and the media for commercial purposes.


    Line 1 addresssed [x]
    Line 2 addressed partially [x]
    * So if you state basketball is a sport - what does it have to do with how fans celebrate their favorite athlete? Does that influence how Jeremy Lin dunks the ball? Does that determine who Carmelo passes the ball to? Does Coach Woodson look up into the stands and sees the hot girl saying: "I want you Linside me" and he immediately calls timeout to call a play with that "dumbed down" inspiration.
    * No - in fact you dislike the fact that these fans care so much about their favorite athlete that they are bringing back signs that Bball fans DID CREATE in the past.

    Line 3 How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport.
    * Has anyone disputed this?
    * Your missing the entire point - since you are addressing me.
    - I have always stated that these guys making a quarter of a million dollars a game: NEED TO HUSTLE, NEED TO COMMUNICATE, NEED TO DEFEND, NEED TO REBOUND OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY.
    - I have STATED: Their needs to be ACCOUNTABILITY & LEADERSHIP - Some 2 WEEKS AGO Prior to any news articles or COACHING CHANGES.

    Line 4 Do you honestly believe these fans go out of their way to twitter, facebook, make signs, etc just because of MEDIA HYPE?
    * What you cannot accept is what these fans are supporting.
    - for some its the underdog story
    - for others its the fact that he was rejected and denied a chance to succeed at every level of the game
    - for others its the overt or covert racism leveled against him everyday
    - for others its the fact that haters hate him just because they want to and refuse to be objective in their hate or disregard.
    * you know something is wrong when, peers throughout the NBA active and retired. Hall of Famers, Future Hall of Famers, and COACHES - all have made some great positive comments on the player in question
    * yet there is a loud segment of the basketball population that enjoys spewing vitriol to feel better about themselves - they reject comparative data, they reject the reputations and the works of NBA players - and go based on their own hate-filled feelings.


    for commercial purposes

    The NBA is a business. There are shareholders to satisfy and stock prices to monitor. Make no mistake - the NBA is a business.

    The games are basketball - everything else is business.
    * I suggest if you have a problem reconciling that fact - the NCAA is generally not a business.


    Did I know about Lin's contract situation; No I didn't. These people get paid far more than what they offer society anyway so the economics of professional sports is not something I examine in detail. Still, the theory behind it stands, that whilst bandwagoners elevate you to godly status when you haven't proven yourself, you as a player can demand more that you're worth (maybe not so much next season, but in seasons to come) as a result of your idiot followers who you can claim are bringing money into the franchise because of you. How many new members on here alone since the emergence of Lin? Basketball is a team sport, and unless we are talking Michael Jordan, one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport. Especially someone like Lin who is not even a top 10 PG (for the moment anyway).

    This is pure philosophical rambling - its obvious that you have some personal agenda against Lin. You also have a personal agenda against anyone that supports Lin.

    You are also not being realistic or objective.

    "one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport"

    * Do you honestly think that Jeremy Lin is dominating the perception of the kid playing hoops in Iran?

    * Do you honestly think that the fans cheering Marbury in the Chinese Basketball Association - in Asia really care about the NBA?

    * Do you honestly think that the fans of basketball - watching the italian basketball league - have the same "perceptions" as you watching their italian teams.


    etc.etc.etc


    You have an incredibly small view of the sport of basketball and the world-at-large.


    I have nothing more to say to you concerning your bias - and personal vendetta against anything related to Jeremy Lin or fans that support him.

    I just felt you deserved someone that would call you out : and hold you accountable for your statements.



    In closing: Basketball - its enjoyment, the perception of others around the world. Be it in Australia, Singapore, Brazil, or Russia - belongs to each individual. Their own personal satisfaction and joy from participating or watching the sports - on whatever stage, wherever it may be - is PERSONAL.
    * You have no ownership over the experience of OTHERS - who buy-in to their own degree.

    * Nor do you have any control. You can't physically force every single fan of Lin - from New Zealand, to Spain - to cater to your own preferences. Nor should they try to force you to like or care about what they like. You are entitled to your freedom just as they are.

    * Just remember basketball is supposed to be fun. No one is telling you not to have fun cheering for your team or your favorite player. No one is telling you not to laugh or cheer when you hit your shot. No one is telling you HOW to celebrate the game.

  4. #49
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    Close this freaking thread, this is a bunch of tomfoolery.

  5. #50
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    Maybe knicks can trade [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in other fan? or we can send him in boston for free

  6. #51
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    Originally Posted by kinein
    1. How is the SPORT - DUMBED down. Because people have their favorites? When someone wears a Carmelo Jersey, or Amare Jersey - is that dumbed down? Before you even answer that. To say no - already shows HYPOCRISY.
    * Who are you to tell those fans - who have paid hundreds and some thousands of dollars - to watch those games. How they want to express their support. When they cheer for the Knicks winning - it sounds and feels the same as someone 60 years old 20 years old or 5 years old.
    * What you need to respect is the culture of fans from various ethnic groups or basketball preferences and how they choose to communicate. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to demean the sport of basketball.
    * This "Dumbed Down Basketball" makes no sense - In fact if you look at the PG figures - almost every team that has played the Knicks in the last 20 games has experienced an ABOVE-average performance. Teams WANT to compete with the Knicks.
    * Derrick Rose experienced a Grade 1 GROIN injury and PLAYED 3 more quarters AND DUNKED THE BALL vs the Knicks. If anything your statement that the PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL LEVEL - is DUMBED DOWN - is proven FALSE.


    You should know Jeremy Lin's basketball contract situation - if you are going to make a claim.....


    TAKMAN QUOTE:

    You yourself have made commentary disparaging Lin - Have introduced the Market aspect, Have introduced the Contract aspect.

    You can't start a conversation - and then pretend you did not initiate the topics. You lack accountability and responsibility for your own words.

    * I'm holding you accountable.


    Why would you even bring up the economics of basketball as one of its most fundamental aspects. It's not. Basketball is a sport. How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport. Watching a load of bandwagon fans on tv holding signs that state "We are here to watch Jeremy Lin" indicates how dumbed down a sport can become when people buy into hype created by the league and the media for commercial purposes.


    Line 1 addresssed [x]
    Line 2 addressed partially [x]
    * So if you state basketball is a sport - what does it have to do with how fans celebrate their favorite athlete? Does that influence how Jeremy Lin dunks the ball? Does that determine who Carmelo passes the ball to? Does Coach Woodson look up into the stands and sees the hot girl saying: "I want you Linside me" and he immediately calls timeout to call a play with that "dumbed down" inspiration.
    * No - in fact you dislike the fact that these fans care so much about their favorite athlete that they are bringing back signs that Bball fans DID CREATE in the past.

    Line 3 How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport.
    * Has anyone disputed this?
    * Your missing the entire point - since you are addressing me.
    - I have always stated that these guys making a quarter of a million dollars a game: NEED TO HUSTLE, NEED TO COMMUNICATE, NEED TO DEFEND, NEED TO REBOUND OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY.
    - I have STATED: Their needs to be ACCOUNTABILITY & LEADERSHIP - Some 2 WEEKS AGO Prior to any news articles or COACHING CHANGES.

    Line 4 Do you honestly believe these fans go out of their way to twitter, facebook, make signs, etc just because of MEDIA HYPE?
    * What you cannot accept is what these fans are supporting.
    - for some its the underdog story
    - for others its the fact that he was rejected and denied a chance to succeed at every level of the game
    - for others its the overt or covert racism leveled against him everyday
    - for others its the fact that haters hate him just because they want to and refuse to be objective in their hate or disregard.
    * you know something is wrong when, peers throughout the NBA active and retired. Hall of Famers, Future Hall of Famers, and COACHES - all have made some great positive comments on the player in question
    * yet there is a loud segment of the basketball population that enjoys spewing vitriol to feel better about themselves - they reject comparative data, they reject the reputations and the works of NBA players - and go based on their own hate-filled feelings.


    for commercial purposes

    The NBA is a business. There are shareholders to satisfy and stock prices to monitor. Make no mistake - the NBA is a business.

    The games are basketball - everything else is business.
    * I suggest if you have a problem reconciling that fact - the NCAA is generally not a business.


    Did I know about Lin's contract situation; No I didn't. These people get paid far more than what they offer society anyway so the economics of professional sports is not something I examine in detail. Still, the theory behind it stands, that whilst bandwagoners elevate you to godly status when you haven't proven yourself, you as a player can demand more that you're worth (maybe not so much next season, but in seasons to come) as a result of your idiot followers who you can claim are bringing money into the franchise because of you. How many new members on here alone since the emergence of Lin? Basketball is a team sport, and unless we are talking Michael Jordan, one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport. Especially someone like Lin who is not even a top 10 PG (for the moment anyway).

    This is pure philosophical rambling - its obvious that you have some personal agenda against Lin. You also have a personal agenda against anyone that supports Lin.

    You are also not being realistic or objective.

    "one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport"

    * Do you honestly think that Jeremy Lin is dominating the perception of the kid playing hoops in Iran?

    * Do you honestly think that the fans cheering Marbury in the Chinese Basketball Association - in Asia really care about the NBA?

    * Do you honestly think that the fans of basketball - watching the italian basketball league - have the same "perceptions" as you watching their italian teams.


    etc.etc.etc


    You have an incredibly small view of the sport of basketball and the world-at-large.


    I have nothing more to say to you concerning your bias - and personal vendetta against anything related to Jeremy Lin or fans that support him.

    I just felt you deserved someone that would call you out : and hold you accountable for your statements.



    In closing: Basketball - its enjoyment, the perception of others around the world. Be it in Australia, Singapore, Brazil, or Russia - belongs to each individual. Their own personal satisfaction and joy from participating or watching the sports - on whatever stage, wherever it may be - is PERSONAL.
    * You have no ownership over the experience of OTHERS - who buy-in to their own degree.
    * Nor do you have any control. You can't physically force every single fan of Lin - from New Zealand, to Spain - to cater to your own preferences. Nor should they try to force you to like or care about what they like. You are entitled to your freedom just as they are.

    * Just remember basketball is supposed to be fun. No one is telling you not to have fun cheering for your team or your favorite player. No one is telling you not to laugh or cheer when you hit your shot. No one is telling you HOW to celebrate the game.

    This is all ranting for the sake of it. It's pretty evident that if someone starts watching a sport in support of one player and makes this player his/her entire focus, this person instantly becomes a fanatic. That generaly equates to the dumbing down of a sport. If some people start at that level and end up educating themselves on the TEAM sport that is basketball, leaving behind their fanaticism of any player then this is positive. The majority will ride the bandwagon until that player's hype dies down. Of course everyone has a right to watch a game of basketball (or any other sport) for whatever reasons they see fit. I also have the right to express my thoughts on those people who see the latest craze and participate in it. Much like the people who see the latest gadget and have to have it. I am not a christian; I am an atheist, so not judging people is not the way I roll. I will hold an opinion of people as I expect some to do the same with me. This does not mean I am denying them the right to watch basketball or support whoever they want to. If Lin is to play for another team in the future, many of his fans will start supporting that team. 'Linsanity' began about three games into Lin's introduction to the NBA. It was a craze that was promoted by the media and the association for obvious reasons. Many bought into it. Good for them. I am not in favour any (insert player name)sanity. What's even worse is when it develops after having sampled a minute portion of the particular player's abilities.

    I have nothing more to say to you concerning your bias- and personal vendetta against anything related to Jeremy Lin or fans that support him.
    This is just you assuming. You haven't been around long enough to sample some of the debates I've had with die hard Carmelo Anthony fans who were attempting to excuse his appalling performances. This isn't about Jeremy Lin. It's about the Knicks and what people feel is good for them. I sincerely hope Lin develops into an all-star (at the moment he's not) and I hope he stays with the Knicks for a long time to come; but to be honest, It would make me far happier if the Knicks won a championship, regardless of what contribution Lin, Anthony, or Stoudamire made.

    You are not taking alternative viewpoints very well. You kind of remind me of G.W Bush when he stated that "You're either with us or against us." I believe I have every right not to buy into 'Linsanity' and still not hold a vendetta against Lin. I support the New York Knicks; and they are much bigger than any one player.
    Last edited by TakMan; Mar 20, 2012 at 15:47.

  7. #52
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    Can we please close this thread, because your not going to convince basketball fans, that LIN, is that dude, and your not going to convince, LIN fanatics, that he's not the greatest thing, since booty implants.This is about to divide this forum, and were winning again, that's all that matters.

  8. #53
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    Can we please close this thread, because your not going to convince basketball fans, that LIN, is that dude, and your not going to convince, LIN fanatics, that he's not the greatest thing, since booty implants.This is about to divide this forum, and we're winning again, that's all that matters.
    I agree that the only thing that matters is that the Knicks are winning!!

    P.S. And, why in the world would the Knicks trade Lin at this point? So,
    the point and discussion is moot. IMHO!

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    This isn't about Jeremy Lin. It's about the Knicks and what people feel is good for them. I sincerely hope Lin develops into an all-star (at the moment he's not) and I hope he stays with the Knicks for a long time to come; but to be honest, It would make me far happier if the Knicks won a championship, regardless of what contribution Lin, Anthony, or Stoudamire made.

    You are not taking alternative viewpoints very well. You kind of remind me of G.W Bush when he stated that "You're either with us or against us." I believe I have every right not to buy into 'Linsanity' and still not hold a vendetta against Lin. I support the New York Knicks; and they are much bigger than any one player.

    We can agree on many points, based on your reply. Though I don't see where I'm saying you are with us or against us. I'm pointing out how your degrading how other fans celebrate the game and players.

    But I won't argue with ya concerning your new statements, as I said before you are free to enjoy the game as you wish, no one is telling you how to enjoy the game.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    I agree with fender that this thread deserves a lock.

  10. #55
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    You are not taking alternative viewpoints very well. You kind of remind me of G.W Bush when he stated that "You're either with us or against us." I believe I have every right not to buy into 'Linsanity' and still not hold a vendetta against Lin. I support the New York Knicks; and they are much bigger than any one player.
    You are a true sports fan. Fans like you are exactly any sports team would want/need in order to last long and stay energized all the time.

    However I wonder how many fans are like you. Many mentioned they stopped paying too much attention to the Knicks games after Patrick Ewing.

    The point is, is stardom a bad thing? This is a complicated issue. If there's no such thing as stardom, there wouldn't be so many multi-millionnaire running around with jerseys and shorts on the court.

    Anyway, I like it when you said the truth: "I have every right not to buy into 'Linsanity' and still not hold a vendetta against Lin."

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