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Thread: Should the NYKnicks trade Jeremy Lin?

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by TakMan
    Who said Lin will agree to play for the Knicks on 600k next year? I seriously doubt he'd accept this. As for the exposure he's bringing; all I've witnessed from this, is an increase of incredibly unknowledgeable fans who will only root for Lin and have no understanding of even the most fundamental aspects of basketball. The only purpose they serve is that of basketball's dumbing down, and giving Lin an excuse to demand much more money than he's worth in the Basketball market.

    Irrelevant post - Lin can't make more than 5million. "purported knowledgeable basketball fans don't seem to pay attention to the new CBA and limitations of the CBA to people finishing up their 2nd year - 1st contract"


    "He can't demand more money" - he potentially can earn 5$ million max.

    Your "commentary demanding much more money that he's worth in the basketball market" could only apply to Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire.
    * Note - I'm using this as an obvious example because of how much they are being paid. I'm happy with the effort, hustle, intensity, rebounding and defensive - improvements from both players. This is not a knock toward those two. I am just setting the record straight with Takman's statement.


    and giving Lin an excuse to demand much more money than he's worth in the Basketball market.


    contrasted with his other statement - same post -

    all I've witnessed from this, is an increase of incredibly unknowledgeable fans who will only root for Lin and have no understanding of even the most fundamental aspects of basketball.


    I question being able to make those 2 statements in the SAME post - while completely ignoring the new CBA. A knowledgeable basketball fan that understands basketball and the business would take the CBA #1 as the starting point in discussing market value. #2 Using their "knowledge" they would state that there is a ceiling - the 5million $ MLE. #3 There would not even be a start to discussing "demands for much more money than he is worth"
    Last edited by kinein; Mar 19, 2012 at 17:59.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Well I would certainly trade Lin for Rubio in a heartbeat.
    Even if this kid is soooo injury prone???? He aint built for ny bruh...Health wise I think he outlasts Rubio,amare,baron davis ect.

  3. #33
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    I've stopped reading most of the articles about Lin via the internet. Most of these websites only want the traffic. And, most of the articles are pure speculation. But, so are the sports news channels, I guess.

  4. #34
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    id keep Lin or only person i would trade for is a healthy Rubio.. wouldnt want a shoot first PG ... thats why we got Melo and Stat to distribute so they make the points...

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    Somehow I think Lin will be making a lot of money during this off-season from endorsement alone. He will be a very rich young man regardless of where he plays as long as it's in the NBA.

    Personally I don't think he has any loyalty to the Knicks yet. His favorite team growing up was the Warriors. Yeah, I would trade him for the right piece. I am not sure Dolan would pull the trigger though. Lin makes Knicks a more recognizable name in Asia.

    Did someone post about Knicks being one of the most profitable NBA teams before Linsanity? I don't doubt it. I can also tell you that nobody would turn away opportunities to make more money. Why would Dolan want to part with Lin when he stands to make so much more money?

  6. #36
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    The problem with trading for a PG who's better NOW is that the chances of us affording that player in the near future is significantly lower than affording Lin. I'd take my chances on the potential of Lin being a perennial All-Star and keeping him.

  7. #37
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    No.

    Why fix something that isnt broke? We are playing well again and Lin has the potential to become an All-Star in my opinion. Lets develop some talent for a change rather than buying it. Its cheaper for a start!

  8. #38
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    I would trade Lin for Steph Curry in a heartbeat.

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by onex0is0
    I thought this was a good article that deserves its own thread.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    After you're done reading, check out the movie Moneyball (2011).


    -----begin article-----

    Letís play a game: Should the Knicks trade Jeremy Lin? And if they did, what could they get?

    Three days ago, that seemed like the worldís most preposterous question. Now, with Mike DíAntoni gone, and his replacement Mike Woodson already talking about replacing Lin in the starting lineup and building his offense around Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire, itís far from far-fetched. Of course, the NBA trade deadline just passed, so no deal could happen until the off-season.

    Excuse me while I go put on my Nomex blazer. I got a lot of angry, but polite and thoughtful, feedback from irate Lin fans when I suggested that DíAntoniís departure could spell bad news for Lin. So let me ask politely: donít kill the messenger. Letís take this thought experiment on its own terms and actually make a reasonable attempt at determining Linís trade value.

    If youíve got your own trade proposal, please add it to the comments below. If you think the mere thought of trading Lin is too ridiculous to even contemplate (0r even if you think itís an awesome idea,) click on this poll.

    So what is Lin worth? Letís head straight to the stats. My friend John Hollinger creates NBA analytic stats and the most useful tool for this kind of comparison is Player Efficiency Rating. It tallies a playerís positive accomplishments such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, as well negative ones such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. Itís expressed on a per minute basis and adjusted for a teamís scoring pace, so that a player on a low-scoring team isnít penalized. The league average is 15.

    PER is a solid stat that does a good job of equating the contributions of players at different positions. According to PER, the top six players in the NBA are LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Manu Ginobili and Dwight Howard.

    What does PER say about Lin?

    * His PER is 20.37, which ranks him 34th overall in the NBA.


    * The five players just ahead of him are Tim Duncan, Marcin Gornat, DeMarcus Cousins, Kevin Garnett, and Josh Smith.

    * The five players just behind him are Pau Gasol, Andrea Bargnani, Ersan Ilyasova, David Lee and Drew Gooden.

    *Lin is the highest ranking Knick, ahead of Tyson Chandler (50th), Carmelo Anthony (55th), Steve Novak (60th) and Amare Stoudemire (85th.)

    *Lin ranks 10th among point guards, just behind Deron Williams, Kyrie Irving, and Lou Williams and ahead of Rodney Stuckey, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, and Brandon Jennings. Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, and Russell Westbrook are the top three point guards according to PER.

    Of course, Lin is a special case. Heís got a much smaller body of work than most of these players. You can look upon that as a positiveóhe can only improve. Or a negativeóitís just a small sample and teams will make defensive adjustments.

    Lin is also a very attractive player from a salary cap point of view. Heís making around $613,000 this year, pro-rated for the shortened season. At the end of the season, he becomes a restricted free agent which means that the Knicks could secure him to a contract of $5 million (the teamís mid-level exception) or less before any potential trade. Lin also has a unique marketing appeal both in the U.S and internationally that increases his appeal.

    Letís look at some recent comps of actual trades. Golden State guard Monta Ellis, who ranks below Lin in PER Lin at 49th, was traded at the deadline for oft-injured center Andrew Bogut. On the low end, Clevelandís young point guard, Ramon Sessions brought Laker veteran Derek Fisher.

    Here are eight players who have either been on the block recently or otherwise provide an interesting trade pairing for Lin. I did not attempt to match salaries, which would need to be done under the NBA salary cap rules.


    Would you trade Jeremy Lin for any of these eight players?

    Rajon Rondo, Celtics (17.85 PER, 67th) The 26-year old Rondo was the subject of swirling trade rumors this week, the most notable being a deal for Pau Gasol.

    Pau Gasol, Lakers: (20.18 PER, 35th) One of the keys to the Lakers championship teams, Gasol is skilled and versatile, but heís also aging and expensive, which may be why he wasnít dealt.

    Andrew Bynum, Lakers: (22.29 PER, 14th) The Lakers were reluctant to trade Bynum, a favorite of owner Jerry Buss, in a deal for Dwight Howard. Bynum is young and has great potential, but is also injury prone.

    Josh Smith, Hawks: (20.38 PER, 33rd) The eight-year veteran is reportedly disgruntled at the Hawksí lack of progress toward real championship contention, and there were conflicting rumors about whether he demanded a trade

    Chris Bosh, Heat: (18.65 PER, 58th) If the Heat fail to win the championship, they might be inclined to move 33.3% of their Big Three. One rumor had the high-paid Bosh going to Houston for Luis Scola and Kyle Lowry.

    Stephen Curry: Golden State: (PER 21.52, 23rd) The Knicks coveted the sharp shooting Curry in the 2009 draft, and his name was mentioned in connection with a Rajon Rondo deal that didnít get much traction.

    Brandon Jennings: Milwaukee: (PER 18.84, 58th) With Monta Ellis now in Milwaukee, the Bucks might consider dealing Jennings, a shoot-first point guard very similar to Curry, Ellisí backcourt mate with the Warriors. The Knicks passed on Jennings in that 2009 draft.

    Ricky Rubio, Timberwolves: (14.86 PER, 134th) Possibly the closest comp to Lin when off-court factors are considered, Rubio has a huge following in Spain, and has shown flashes of brilliance in his brief NBA career. A torn ACL ended his season prematurely, although he is expected to recover fully.

    If you were the Knicks GM, what would teams have to give you to get Lin? Share your trade scenarios below.

    -----end article-----
    dumb idea dude...are u the same kind of person that thought about trading Rondo?

    Remember how we were without Lin? Absolutely terrible.

    We need legit point guards.

    Eventhough trading Lin would be good because we would get value, he is still very young...wants to be here...HAS ICE IN HIS VAINS WHICH RARE AND PERFECT FOR NY...and he won't cost as much as he is actually worth.

    He will most likely sign here for the mid levell exception at 5 mil a year when he will be worth more than that in a year or two so we can get a steal of a deal.

    We need Lin.

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    I would trade Lin for Steph Curry in a heartbeat.
    I hope that's a joke!

    The only PG's in the league I'd say are even in the conversation would be Rubio and Lowry.

    Rubio would be ok but his injury history is worrying, at least he has a small contract.

    Lowry would cost us more but is way more reliable and consistent.

    Either way we won't trade Lin it's a moot point.

  11. #41
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    I would trade Lin for Steph Curry in a heartbeat.
    Curry has chronic injuries...and why do u want to give up Lin so quickly? Chill bro.

  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    ((crickets))

    Kobe shot 3 out of 20 last night against the Utah Jazz.

    So numbers don't count.

    It's hard to describe the feeling that you just know that someone can do it.


    Anyway, I laughed when I saw the word "crickets" you put there.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by kinein
    Irrelevant post - Lin can't make more than 5million. "purported knowledgeable basketball fans don't seem to pay attention to the new CBA and limitations of the CBA to people finishing up their 2nd year - 1st contract"


    "He can't demand more money" - he potentially can earn 5$ million max.

    Your "commentary demanding much more money that he's worth in the basketball market" could only apply to Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire.
    * Note - I'm using this as an obvious example because of how much they are being paid. I'm happy with the effort, hustle, intensity, rebounding and defensive - improvements from both players. This is not a knock toward those two. I am just setting the record straight with Takman's statement.


    and giving Lin an excuse to demand much more money than he's worth in the Basketball market.


    contrasted with his other statement - same post -

    all I've witnessed from this, is an increase of incredibly unknowledgeable fans who will only root for Lin and have no understanding of even the most fundamental aspects of basketball.


    I question being able to make those 2 statements in the SAME post - while completely ignoring the new CBA. A knowledgeable basketball fan that understands basketball and the business would take the CBA #1 as the starting point in discussing market value. #2 Using their "knowledge" they would state that there is a ceiling - the 5million $ MLE. #3 There would not even be a start to discussing "demands for much more money than he is worth"

    Why would you even bring up the economics of basketball as one of its most fundamental aspects. It's not. Basketball is a sport. How much money players make out of that sport has nothing to do with the fundamentals of how you play this sport. Watching a load of bandwagon fans on tv holding signs that state "We are here to watch Jeremy Lin" indicates how dumbed down a sport can become when people buy into hype created by the league and the media for commercial purposes.

    Did I know about Lin's contract situation; No I didn't. These people get paid far more than what they offer society anyway so the economics of professional sports is not something I examine in detail. Still, the theory behind it stands, that whilst bandwagoners elevate you to godly status when you haven't proven yourself, you as a player can demand more that you're worth (maybe not so much next season, but in seasons to come) as a result of your idiot followers who you can claim are bringing money into the franchise because of you. How many new members on here alone since the emergence of Lin? Basketball is a team sport, and unless we are talking Michael Jordan, one player cannot be allowed to dominate people's perception of the sport. Especially someone like Lin who is not even a top 10 PG (for the moment anyway).


    EDIT: Just to add; Stoudamire and Anthony at least have a history of positive contributions that extends to more than just 20 games. Yes they milked the Knicks for everything they could get, but they were proven performers. What's Lin's history of contributions? The only thing Lin could use to attempt to increase his worth, is the bandwagon mob and a few games worth of performances. Remember; Form is temporary, class is permanent. Lin's ability should be assessed throughout the space of a few years; not a few games.
    Last edited by TakMan; Mar 20, 2012 at 04:01.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by TakMan

    Remember; Form is temporary, class is permanent. Lin's ability should be assessed throughout the space of a few years; not a few games.
    It's hard to debate with your point. But is there any possibilities that we could predict something based on what we've seen so far? If there's no room for prediction, then what are scouts for?

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by rogeryy
    It's hard to debate with your point. But is there any possibilities that we could predict something based on what we've seen so far? If there's no room for prediction, then what are scouts for?
    Of course people have the right to attempt predictions. If Lin does turn out to be the buy of the century however, scouts will not have contributed in the slightest towards this as not one person picked up on him. He was obtained by the Knicks as a necessity while Davis was injured and Douglas was clearly demonstrating his non-existent PG skills. He's exceeded everyone's expectations thus far. He also has many flaws that need to be addressed if he is ever to be categorised as a star. Miami had his number, and good defensive teams will follow. He needs to add versatility to his game and improve his ball handling abilities. Also his defence is nothing special. Only time will tell as to whether he will cut it at an all star level. In the meantime, this hype is not really adding constructively to the situation.

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