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Thread: Eating crow and loving it

  1. #31
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    We were also missing our starting PG, our starting defensive stalwart SG, and our starting PF.

    Yea, if Melo comes as a free agent, we keep Gallo or Wilson, and Moz, etc. We'd have 4 SF's on the roster, and maybe no Tyson Chandler.

    It's a factual point you're making, but I dunno how relevant it is on May 3rd, 2012. What's done is done.

    We have what we have. Without 3/5 of our starting lineup out, we don't look quite as pathetic, and Melo doesn't have to carry the entire offensive load.
    We're 0-3. It hasn't been just this game. We lost by 33 in game 1 with everybody, except Lin.

    And Lin, Novak, Fields, Davis, Bibbly, Jeffries and Smith need to be replaced or resigned next year, somehow.

    The old team with $18 mil in cap space could have built a better product than what we have now. No question. But you're right, what's done is done. Just have to accept and eat the crap Dolan feeds us. It's what us Knick fans do best.

  2. #32
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    We're 0-3. It hasn't been just this game. We lost by 33 in game 1 with everybody, except Lin.

    And Lin, Novak, Fields, Davis, Bibbly, Jeffries and Smith need to be replaced or resigned next year, somehow.

    The old team with $18 mil in cap space could have built a better product than what we have now. No question. But you're right, what's done is done. Just have to accept and eat the crap Dolan feeds us. It's what us Knick fans do best.
    True, but clearly the team is not 33 point defeat, bad. I throw a game like that out, and look to the next. Nothing to take from it, nothing to learn from it, expect nothing was working. I prefer to look to games 2 and 3 for more insight into what's plaguing the team in the playoffs.

    And I don't know that the old team with $18M in cap space is better. That's intimating that if you take last year's STAT, and put him on the Nuggets right now (who obviously have Gallo, Moz, and a better PG situation in Lawson and Miller) they would be better off than our current Knicks team. I'm not sold on that.

    With STAT's health situation (mainly the back injury, trying to compensate for it, having the compensation affect his game, then having to counteract that....only to get hurt again), and his becoming less of an effective weapon with Melo and Chandler on the court...I say the problem lies there.

    Not with what woulda, coulda, shoulda, oh but if we had did this, scenarios.

    Denver signed Nene to a 5-year, $67+M contract, it was looked on as an untraceable contract, then they offloaded him. It can be done.

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    Originally Posted by StEpHoN_mArBuRy
    It's not fair to blame Melo for this. It's basically him vs 2 superstars. His supporting cast isn't giving him much help

    7 for 23 with 5 TO, season on the line. He suck ass for 3 games, will get sweep out of the playoff 0-4 AGAIN. Yeah, let blame everyone else. He is da man. What a selfish loser!!

  4. #34
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Den318
    7 for 23 with 5 TO, season on the line. He suck ass for 3 games, will get sweep out of the playoff 0-4 AGAIN. Yeah, let blame everyone else. He is da man. What a selfish loser!!
    Who would you have preferred take the shots then?

    I will concede to you that Melo took some terrible shots when he was being doubled on the catch, but now can you please articulate who you wanted taking the shots?

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    I kind of think I know why.

    I mean I know why Melo is to be blamed.

    And I know why Melo is not to be blamed.

    First, Let's take a look at the reason why not:
    .....He contributed his part and led us to the playoffs........
    .....He was double teamed............................................ .....
    .....They have two super stars...........................................
    .....He is such a good scorer............................................ ...
    .....And many many more.............................................. ......
    .....And many many more.............................................. ......
    .....And many many more.............................................. ......

    But like the 9-ball pool game, you don't win even if you made ball 1 through ball 8. You just don't win if you missed the number 9 ball.

    And now, let's take a look at the reason why he should:
    The team did try to find another/other star(s) to help Melo, but look what he has done (mentally)? He has something deep down in his mind that wouldn't allow a solid triangle to form. Need proof? He admitted himself he wouldn't do his best under MDA. That's a sign. And just check this board out and you'll see how many people were talking about trading Lin, and trading xxx because Melo performed less than OK with "them" on the court.

    I think what's missing for the Knicks to win a title is our superstar's truly unselfish mind.

    You and I can only discuss here at KO. He is the one who can actually dribble on the court and think how to get his teammates involved to make the best shot.

    But that's just me. I mean, just me thinking this way.

    I might be wrong or mistaken. If you think otherwise and willing to share with me. I'm willing to listen.

  6. #36
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    We're 0-3. It hasn't been just this game. We lost by 33 in game 1 with everybody, except Lin.

    And Lin, Novak, Fields, Davis, Bibbly, Jeffries and Smith need to be replaced or resigned next year, somehow.

    The old team with $18 mil in cap space could have built a better product than what we have now. No question. But you're right, what's done is done. Just have to accept and eat the crap Dolan feeds us. It's what us Knick fans do best.
    The Knicks would not have had 18mil to use, why? because Wilson Chandler would have taken half of it, leaving 9mil for who, Melo, Tyson, Nene

    This team is way better we just have not gotten a real chance to click, everything has been on the fly give the guys this training camp and an 8 game pre-season and see where things are then, if I'm wrong I'll eat my crow but if I'm right then this team is a force to be reckon with

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    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    This team is way better we just have not gotten a real chance to click, everything has been on the fly give the guys this training camp and an 8 game pre-season and see where things are then, if I'm wrong I'll eat my crow but if I'm right then this team is a force to be reckon with
    I know it hurts, but sooner or later you'll have to admit that Melo isn't doing what this franchise is paying him to do, just as he didn't do what the Nuggets paid him for. He is just too self-centred to see that he is not going to win a title on his own.

    He had more than enough pieces of humble pie in his career, however it doesn't seem to change his approach in the long run.

  8. #38
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    I know it hurts, but sooner or later you'll have to admit that Melo isn't doing what this franchise is paying him to do, just as he didn't do what the Nuggets paid him for. He is just too self-centred to see that he is not going to win a title on his own.

    He had more than enough pieces of humble pie in his career, however it doesn't seem to change his approach in the long run.
    First game of the playoffs last year, Amar'e went 28 & 11, while Melo went 15, 4, 4, and 2 steals.

    Second game, Melo went 42 & 17, Amar'e went 4 & 5, in 17 minutes of action.

    Third game, Melo went 15 & 11, Amar'e went 7 & 3.

    4th game, Melo went 32 & 9, Amar'e went 19 & 12.

    Melo averaged 26 points and 10 rebounds a game in the series.
    Amar'e averaged 14 and 7 rebounds a game in the series.

    This is without a Lin, JR, Shump, Novak, or Tyson Chandler on the roster.

    How is that humble pie for Melo?

    If folks have an actual argument to make, I'm more than open to hearing it. I'm not mindlessly defending Melo, but like I state earlier, sometimes is seems like more of a vendetta than anything.

    I even asked a question a few posts up...people keep on complaining about the number of shots Melo takes, which is fair, because there's some efficiency to be desired. But on the flip side of that...if not Melo, then who?

    His options were JR (who took 18 shots), Baron, Fields, Bibby, Jeffries, Jorts, and Tyson.

    So, I guess, subtracting JR from that list...who do we want taking shots?

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2

    But on the flip side of that...if not Melo, then who?

    His options were JR (who took 18 shots), Baron, Fields, Bibby, Jeffries, Jorts, and Tyson.

    So, I guess, subtracting JR from that list...who do we want taking shots?
    Thanks for willing to discuss it openly.
    This is the fundamental basketball thing.
    It hurts to think that way.
    If we fans think "if not Melo, who else" too, then it's so easy to be Miami Heat's coach. He doesn't even need a brain to sweep the Knicks. Dwyane Wade said himself their strategy is to give Melo 48 minute suffocating style defense. And it worked.

    We simply can't do the same to them because they have 3. If we would to give them suffocating style defense then we would need 6 players at least.

    I remember I saw a post here a while ago, saying Melo needs to have ball in hand enough time to be clutch. I can only assume, who doesn't?

    What I'm saying is that they are NBA players. They have potentials to be discovered. Make themselves believe they can too. They are who they used to be -- who played so many years of excellent basketball before they made NBA.

    With Woodson's go ahead order, Melo's truly unselfish mind, and some appropriate and working boost, the Heat would find out they can't just emphasize on watching Melo only. And we get a chance to win.

  10. #40
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    I know it hurts, but sooner or later you'll have to admit that Melo isn't doing what this franchise is paying him to do, just as he didn't do what the Nuggets paid him for. He is just too self-centred to see that he is not going to win a title on his own.

    He had more than enough pieces of humble pie in his career, however it doesn't seem to change his approach in the long run.
    Instead of just saying Melo is "too self-centred" can you explain why you feel that way? It's annoying when people just throw out words without backing it up.

    Also, you are basically claiming that Melo wants to win a title on his own. How did you come up with that?

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    I don't blame MELO or STAT,they are, what they are.I think we need to build a better defensive team around them, players like, Novak, Smith, TD, Bibby, Davis, are nice players on the right team.But i think we need to put defensive minded players around STAT, MELO, and TC.The team we have now, will never go far in the playoffs, because only 2 guys play D, that's not gonna get it done, if yo look at teams like SA,and CHI, there built mainly on Defense, with only one main scorer, and they win a lot of games every year, we need to change or formula, we have the 2 guys to put the ball in the hoop, but now we need defenders.So the 5 guys i mentioned earlier, are expendable IMO.

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    Originally Posted by StEpHoN_mArBuRy
    It's not fair to blame Melo for this. It's basically him vs 2 superstars. His supporting cast isn't giving him much help
    Finally someone smart enough to figure it out. Melo played 1 on 3 last night. BD was good for one layup and JR one dunk. The end. Bron rested on the bench the entire 3rd quarter and had fresh legs in the fourth. The entire Heat game plan was to stop Melo as he is the only KNICKS scoring option and so they threw four defenders at him. And when Melo drove and dished, Folds built a brick house and Novak couldn't even get his shot off except for the one that went in and was promptly waived off by the zebras. If someone could explain that one to me I would appreciate it.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Finally someone smart enough to figure it out. Melo played 1 on 3 last night. BD was good for one layup and JR one dunk. The end. Bron rested on the bench the entire 3rd quarter and had fresh legs in the fourth. The entire Heat game plan was to stop Melo as he is the only KNICKS scoring option and so they threw four defenders at him. And when Melo drove and dished, Folds built a brick house and Novak couldn't even get his shot off except for the one that went in and was promptly waived off by the zebras. If someone could explain that one to me I would appreciate it.
    LBJ consistently got out of the first round and into the finals once with himself and a bunch of scrubs as good as what we have now.

    Not saying losing is Melo's fault as much as it shows Melo ain't on LeBron's superstar level.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Who would you have preferred take the shots then?

    I will concede to you that Melo took some terrible shots when he was being doubled on the catch, but now can you please articulate who you wanted taking the shots?
    Thank you. Everyone coming up with shooting equations and Melo being selfish but who do you rather take the shots???? On several occasions the KNICKS spread the floor, Melo iso-top of the key, drive and dish and then what???? Slow release Novak couldn't even get his shot off. Folds shot more bricks than the third little pig. JR got on Sportcenter with his highlight dunk and that was it for him. Even the white-boy came off the bench and threw in a hook in the first half and he was done. I haven't seen a white boy playing for Kentucky since Travis Ford but somehow the one ended up on the Knicks roster. The Knicks were better off letting Melo throw up trick shots then let let the supporting cast miss bunnies. At least Melo was getting beaten to death double-tripled teamed and had a shot at going to the line when the refs weren't swallowing their whistle.

  15. #45
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rogeryy
    Thanks for willing to discuss it openly.
    This is the fundamental basketball thing.
    It hurts to think that way.
    If we fans think "if not Melo, who else" too, then it's so easy to be Miami Heat's coach. He doesn't even need a brain to sweep the Knicks. Dwyane Wade said himself their strategy is to give Melo 48 minute suffocating style defense. And it worked.

    We simply can't do the same to them because they have 3. If we would to give them suffocating style defense then we would need 6 players at least.

    I remember I saw a post here a while ago, saying Melo needs to have ball in hand enough time to be clutch. I can only assume, who doesn't?

    What I'm saying is that they are NBA players. They have potentials to be discovered. Make themselves believe they can too. They are who they used to be -- who played so many years of excellent basketball before they made NBA.

    With Woodson's go ahead order, Melo's truly unselfish mind, and some appropriate and working boost, the Heat would find out they can't just emphasize on watching Melo only. And we get a chance to win.
    Everything you said is cool, but I don't need Landry Fields thinking he's at Stanford, and he can go off against NBA players. You don't want him taking more than 7-9 shots a game. Steve Novak is a good player, in his own right, that's the issue tho...he's a pigeonholed, role player, he thrives off of other teammates' interior success, and game planning. If help doesn't have to come from his man, he's taken out of the game plan. Baron Davis is an older PG with injury woes, so when the team needs the ball pushed into the middle of the defense, he's just walking it up at a snail's pace.

    This is what Melo has had to work with the past two games.

    We need Shump to stick to the opposing team's best player/ball handler, so with his harassing style of play, it allows everyone else to stay at home on their man. I counted a couple of times, last night, where Fields was on LeBron, and Melo was sagging off of his man to give help. The ball was kicked to Melo's assignment, who then got his shot off (Chalmers a few times), same with JR and his man.

    I'm not saying the Knicks are in a position to win the series with Shump playing, but they most certainly have no shot without him. You don't want Fields guarding LBJ or Wade, 1-on-1...as a matter of fact, you can't have that. But you also can't help off of Chalmers, Miller, Battier, or Jones.

    See...when I start seeing (and hearing) people say things like "they have potentials to be discovered. They're NBA players. They need to believe. Theoretically, you need 6 guys to defend Miami's big three" I start getting royally pissed off. I don't mean to attack anyone, I don't wanna be THAT GUY, but none of that means anything.

    Every single player on the Knicks can believe with their heart of hearts that they can accomplish anything in the world...and if Baron Davis walks the basketball up the court, while Miami gets set 1 thru 5, on the defensive end...we're playing into their hands.

    If Baron walks it up, eats up 6-7 seconds doing so; keeps his dribble while looking around, Miami is denying Melo all the way out past the 3 point line, he finally gets the ball with about 13 seconds left on the clock, he's now standing at the free throw line extended (way out on the wing), he looks up, and he sees Novak blanketed, Tyson fronted, Baron on the other god damn side of the court -- opposite free throw line extended, and JR desperately trying to get away from Wade or Chalmers....what does Melo do? Is it selfish for him to try to get his own shot there? Where does he apply his truly unselfish mind, and go with the ball?

    And in scenarios where Melo is being fronted about 18 feet from the cup, why does Baron....after he expends the 6-7 seconds walking it up...why does he take another 2-3 seconds trying to make the perfect lob pass to Melo behind the man fronting him? Now once again, Melo finally gets the ball, 13-14 seconds on the shot clock, he's either blitzed with another defender, sent baseline so the help can meet him at the rim, or he faces up, and sees what I described in the previous paragraph.

    What is he to do?

    To avoid those situations, the team needs to get into it's offense quicker. I don't want to blame Baron, because he's trying. But if he's not gonna push in transition, then he needs to attack in the half court set a bit more....I counted Baron getting to the rim twice in the game yesterday. Once for a floater, and the other where he shook Miller. Conversely, Lin lived in the paint.

    These are the kind of things you need to look at, but people don't...then they approach me with "Oh man, Melo is so selfish dawg", and all I can think is:



    Alright.....rant over.....

    In case I hurt some feelings or whatever, it's nothing personal. I have people that I see everyday that says wild ****, so when I come on here and see some of the stuff said. I activate beast mode.

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