Eating crow and loving it

fender0577

Rotation player
I don't blame MELO or STAT,they are, what they are.I think we need to build a better defensive team around them, players like, Novak, Smith, TD, Bibby, Davis, are nice players on the right team.But i think we need to put defensive minded players around STAT, MELO, and TC.The team we have now, will never go far in the playoffs, because only 2 guys play D, that's not gonna get it done, if yo look at teams like SA,and CHI, there built mainly on Defense, with only one main scorer, and they win a lot of games every year, we need to change or formula, we have the 2 guys to put the ball in the hoop, but now we need defenders.So the 5 guys i mentioned earlier, are expendable IMO.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
It's not fair to blame Melo for this. It's basically him vs 2 superstars. His supporting cast isn't giving him much help

Finally someone smart enough to figure it out. Melo played 1 on 3 last night. BD was good for one layup and JR one dunk. The end. Bron rested on the bench the entire 3rd quarter and had fresh legs in the fourth. The entire Heat game plan was to stop Melo as he is the only KNICKS scoring option and so they threw four defenders at him. And when Melo drove and dished, Folds built a brick house and Novak couldn't even get his shot off except for the one that went in and was promptly waived off by the zebras. If someone could explain that one to me I would appreciate it.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Finally someone smart enough to figure it out. Melo played 1 on 3 last night. BD was good for one layup and JR one dunk. The end. Bron rested on the bench the entire 3rd quarter and had fresh legs in the fourth. The entire Heat game plan was to stop Melo as he is the only KNICKS scoring option and so they threw four defenders at him. And when Melo drove and dished, Folds built a brick house and Novak couldn't even get his shot off except for the one that went in and was promptly waived off by the zebras. If someone could explain that one to me I would appreciate it.

LBJ consistently got out of the first round and into the finals once with himself and a bunch of scrubs as good as what we have now.

Not saying losing is Melo's fault as much as it shows Melo ain't on LeBron's superstar level.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Who would you have preferred take the shots then?

I will concede to you that Melo took some terrible shots when he was being doubled on the catch, but now can you please articulate who you wanted taking the shots?

Thank you. Everyone coming up with shooting equations and Melo being selfish but who do you rather take the shots???? On several occasions the KNICKS spread the floor, Melo iso-top of the key, drive and dish and then what???? Slow release Novak couldn't even get his shot off. Folds shot more bricks than the third little pig. JR got on Sportcenter with his highlight dunk and that was it for him. Even the white-boy came off the bench and threw in a hook in the first half and he was done. I haven't seen a white boy playing for Kentucky since Travis Ford but somehow the one ended up on the Knicks roster. The Knicks were better off letting Melo throw up trick shots then let let the supporting cast miss bunnies. At least Melo was getting beaten to death double-tripled teamed and had a shot at going to the line when the refs weren't swallowing their whistle.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Thanks for willing to discuss it openly.
This is the fundamental basketball thing.
It hurts to think that way.
If we fans think "if not Melo, who else" too, then it's so easy to be Miami Heat's coach. He doesn't even need a brain to sweep the Knicks. Dwyane Wade said himself their strategy is to give Melo 48 minute suffocating style defense. And it worked.

We simply can't do the same to them because they have 3. If we would to give them suffocating style defense then we would need 6 players at least.

I remember I saw a post here a while ago, saying Melo needs to have ball in hand enough time to be clutch. I can only assume, who doesn't?

What I'm saying is that they are NBA players. They have potentials to be discovered. Make themselves believe they can too. They are who they used to be -- who played so many years of excellent basketball before they made NBA.

With Woodson's go ahead order, Melo's truly unselfish mind, and some appropriate and working boost, the Heat would find out they can't just emphasize on watching Melo only. And we get a chance to win.

Everything you said is cool, but I don't need Landry Fields thinking he's at Stanford, and he can go off against NBA players. You don't want him taking more than 7-9 shots a game. Steve Novak is a good player, in his own right, that's the issue tho...he's a pigeonholed, role player, he thrives off of other teammates' interior success, and game planning. If help doesn't have to come from his man, he's taken out of the game plan. Baron Davis is an older PG with injury woes, so when the team needs the ball pushed into the middle of the defense, he's just walking it up at a snail's pace.

This is what Melo has had to work with the past two games.

We need Shump to stick to the opposing team's best player/ball handler, so with his harassing style of play, it allows everyone else to stay at home on their man. I counted a couple of times, last night, where Fields was on LeBron, and Melo was sagging off of his man to give help. The ball was kicked to Melo's assignment, who then got his shot off (Chalmers a few times), same with JR and his man.

I'm not saying the Knicks are in a position to win the series with Shump playing, but they most certainly have no shot without him. You don't want Fields guarding LBJ or Wade, 1-on-1...as a matter of fact, you can't have that. But you also can't help off of Chalmers, Miller, Battier, or Jones.

See...when I start seeing (and hearing) people say things like "they have potentials to be discovered. They're NBA players. They need to believe. Theoretically, you need 6 guys to defend Miami's big three" I start getting royally pissed off. I don't mean to attack anyone, I don't wanna be THAT GUY, but none of that means anything.

Every single player on the Knicks can believe with their heart of hearts that they can accomplish anything in the world...and if Baron Davis walks the basketball up the court, while Miami gets set 1 thru 5, on the defensive end...we're playing into their hands.

If Baron walks it up, eats up 6-7 seconds doing so; keeps his dribble while looking around, Miami is denying Melo all the way out past the 3 point line, he finally gets the ball with about 13 seconds left on the clock, he's now standing at the free throw line extended (way out on the wing), he looks up, and he sees Novak blanketed, Tyson fronted, Baron on the other god damn side of the court -- opposite free throw line extended, and JR desperately trying to get away from Wade or Chalmers....what does Melo do? Is it selfish for him to try to get his own shot there? Where does he apply his truly unselfish mind, and go with the ball?

And in scenarios where Melo is being fronted about 18 feet from the cup, why does Baron....after he expends the 6-7 seconds walking it up...why does he take another 2-3 seconds trying to make the perfect lob pass to Melo behind the man fronting him? Now once again, Melo finally gets the ball, 13-14 seconds on the shot clock, he's either blitzed with another defender, sent baseline so the help can meet him at the rim, or he faces up, and sees what I described in the previous paragraph.

What is he to do?

To avoid those situations, the team needs to get into it's offense quicker. I don't want to blame Baron, because he's trying. But if he's not gonna push in transition, then he needs to attack in the half court set a bit more....I counted Baron getting to the rim twice in the game yesterday. Once for a floater, and the other where he shook Miller. Conversely, Lin lived in the paint.

These are the kind of things you need to look at, but people don't...then they approach me with "Oh man, Melo is so selfish dawg", and all I can think is:

36a4yr.jpg


Alright.....rant over.....

In case I hurt some feelings or whatever, it's nothing personal. I have people that I see everyday that says wild ****, so when I come on here and see some of the stuff said. I activate beast mode.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Bench getting a lot of hate, but if you remember this team turned it around with out bench guys in the game. In fact, the only three guys last night for NY with a positive plus/minus were off our bench (Harrellson, Jeffries, Bibby). Of course, this is skewed - but I honestly think if you thought the bench was bad last night you really weren't watching.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
LBJ consistently got out of the first round and into the finals once with himself and a bunch of scrubs as good as what we have now.

Not saying losing is Melo's fault as much as it shows Melo ain't on LeBron's superstar level.

I would check your facts there. Delonte West, Antwian Jamison, Z,and Boobi weren't scrubs. And the Celtics Big Three were always better than the Big One Bron. That is what happened to Melo last night. Why is no one blaming punk-a$$ STAT for watching from the BENCH with that ridiculous cast on????
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Bench getting a lot of hate, but if you remember this team turned it around with out bench guys in the game. In fact, the only three guys last night for NY with a positive plus/minus were off our bench (Harrellson, Jeffries, Bibby). Of course, this is skewed - but I honestly think if you thought the bench was bad last night you really weren't watching.

Oh no doubt, that was the most exciting part of the game. But it was also against Miami's bench, and if you were also watching carefully, you would have noticed that Miller, Jones, and Joel, gave Miami a collective helping of nothing.

James Jones finding his way onto the court for 5 minutes is a failure, in and of itself.
 

KBlack25

Starter
I would check your facts there. Delonte West, Antwian Jamison, Z,and Boobi weren't scrubs. And the Celtics Big Three were always better than the Big One Bron. That is what happened to Melo last night. Why is no one blaming punk-a$$ STAT for watching from the BENCH with that ridiculous cast on????

Z isn't as good as Chandler.

Jamison only got there for LBJ's last playoff run in 2010 - when LBJ quit on the team.

I don't think West and Boobie are markedly better guys than what we have now.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Oh no doubt, that was the most exciting part of the game. But it was also against Miami's bench, and if you were also watching carefully, you would have noticed that Miller, Jones, and Joel, gave Miami a collective helping of nothing.

James Jones finding his way onto the court for 5 minutes is a failure, in and of itself.

Well for part of the time it was (which is why I said the numbers were skewed). But there were def. times Wade and/or James were out there with our bench guys.

FWIW I noticed a lot more passion in the rebounding game and on the defensive end when Jeffries entered the game. I think we went on a 9-0 run when he got in.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I would check your facts there. Delonte West, Antwian Jamison, Z,and Boobi weren't scrubs. And the Celtics Big Three were always better than the Big One Bron. That is what happened to Melo last night. Why is no one blaming punk-a$$ STAT for watching from the BENCH with that ridiculous cast on????

I know Jamison and Delonte weren't there when they went to the Finals, but the rest were. Yea, I wouldn't say a cast of Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Boobi Gibson, Andy Varejao, and Big Z in 2007 was exactly the same as what the Knicks have right now.
 

KBlack25

Starter
I know Jamison and Delonte weren't there when they went to the Finals, but the rest were. Yea, I wouldn't say a cast of Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Boobi Gibson, Andy Varejao, and Big Z in 2007 was exactly the same as what the Knicks have right now.

Besides Varejao how many of them were truly effective after LBJ wasn't there? Or they left LBJ?
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Z isn't as good as Chandler.

Jamison only got there for LBJ's last playoff run in 2010 - when LBJ quit on the team.

I don't think West and Boobie are markedly better guys than what we have now.

C'mon you had for account for Z on the offensive end and Twan was a big time scorer. I would watch some of that old tape before I commit to any of that. And your little equation can't account for defense or fatigue. You got the god-father Pat Riley overseeing things in the luxury box. Remember Pat??? Architect of the great Knick defenses of the 90's??? So he sent 2-3 premier NBA defenders at Melo to harass and get the ball out of his hands. Every shot Melo managed to get off was contested and Riles kept fresh legs on him and unleashed a fresh Bron in the 4th quarter to finish wearing Melo out by attrition . This stuff is pretty simple actually, but you have to get out of the lab and play a little to understand it.
 

KBlack25

Starter
C'mon you had for account for Z on the offensive end and Twan was a big time scorer. I would watch some of that old tape before I commit to any of that. And your little equation can't account for defense or fatigue. You got the god-father Pat Riley overseeing things in the luxury box. Remember Pat??? Architect of the great Knick defenses of the 90's??? So he sent 2-3 premier NBA defenders at Melo to harass and get the ball out of his hands. Every shot Melo managed to get off was contested and Riles kept fresh legs on him and unleashed a fresh Bron in the 4th quarter to finish wearing Melo out by attrition . This stuff is pretty simple actually, but you have to get out of the lab and play a little to understand it.

Give credit where credits due.

1) Bron was fresh in the 4th b/c he had to sit b/c of foul trouble in the third.

2) Spo is a darn good coach (I've said it over and over).

3) Your post is irrelevant to what I said, but of course you are deflecting to try and insult me.

4) Twan was a big-time scorer, at one point - but again he wasn't there for the title run. Only the short-lived playoff run of 2010. Bron did it with Hughes and Boobie.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
I know Jamison and Delonte weren't there when they went to the Finals, but the rest were. Yea, I wouldn't say a cast of Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Boobi Gibson, Andy Varejao, and Big Z in 2007 was exactly the same as what the Knicks have right now.

I am talking about Bron's entire stay in Cleveland. Guys came and went but small-market, midwest cheapness kept the Cavs from bringing another star or two to provide real help. That's why Lebron left. Without Shump our bench is terrible. Novak couldn't even get the ball out of his hands with that slow, wind-up release and JR is too steaky. He can and will shoot you out of a game. And Bibby??? We were fortunate he actually broke out of his slump and hit a couple. It is an indication of how bad you are depleted when Harrelson gets to remove his warm-ups in a must win game.
 
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jimkcchief88

All Star
Give credit where credits due.

1) Bron was fresh in the 4th b/c he had to sit b/c of foul trouble in the third.

2) Spo is a darn good coach (I've said it over and over).

3) Your post is irrelevant to what I said, but of course you are deflecting to try and insult me.

4) Twan was a big-time scorer, at one point - but again he wasn't there for the title run. Only the short-lived playoff run of 2010. Bron did it with Hughes and Boobie.

Naw its relevant all right. Bron got to sit and chill with those four fouls the entire 3rd quarter cause you still have Wade and Bosh. Spo is a pinoy-boy from right here in Chicago who ended up in the film room in Miami. Maybe he let Riles bang his sister to get the job but best believe Riles is still running things. If Spo was a good coach with Miami's talent they would have a record like those old Bulls teams. And Hughes and Boobi were big time streak shooters and Twan is still with the Cavs banging. Remember when Twan came out Carolina fans thought he was better and more rounded than Vinsanity.And Mike Brown coached them all up. HE is a better coach than Spo and doing great with the Lakers. Your revisionist history is funny. You must have been reading your hoops books instead of watching those games.
 
Just give this team and coaching staff one good year and they will be in the mix. Let them do one real year together they will smash the heat and anyone else...take aware all the detractions and injuries we will be good. I'm tired of all these trades and coaching changing sh!t. We got something promising to work with right now.
 

Newbie

Benchwarmer
Just give this team and coaching staff one good year and they will be in the mix. Let them do one real year together they will smash the heat and anyone else...take aware all the detractions and injuries we will be good. I'm tired of all these trades and coaching changing sh!t. We got something promising to work with right now.
:thumbsup:
 

skisloper

Starter
Just give this team and coaching staff one good year and they will be in the mix. Let them do one real year together they will smash the heat and anyone else...take aware all the detractions and injuries we will be good. I'm tired of all these trades and coaching changing sh!t. We got something promising to work with right now.

whats promising........we still have not seem Melo and Stat gel.......
The most important move is not getting rid of Woodson due to his ability but rather getting a proven Champion in Phil Jackson and let him take the knicks as they are now to the next level.
If we do not make that move we will do better next season but end up just like Woodsons Hawks did...NOT CHAMPIONS
 

rogeryy

Benchwarmer
Everything you said is cool, but I don't need Landry Fields thinking he's at Stanford, and he can go off against NBA players. You don't want him taking more than 7-9 shots a game. Steve Novak is a good player, in his own right, that's the issue tho...he's a pigeonholed, role player, he thrives off of other teammates' interior success, and game planning. If help doesn't have to come from his man, he's taken out of the game plan. Baron Davis is an older PG with injury woes, so when the team needs the ball pushed into the middle of the defense, he's just walking it up at a snail's pace.

This is what Melo has had to work with the past two games.

We need Shump to stick to the opposing team's best player/ball handler, so with his harassing style of play, it allows everyone else to stay at home on their man. I counted a couple of times, last night, where Fields was on LeBron, and Melo was sagging off of his man to give help. The ball was kicked to Melo's assignment, who then got his shot off (Chalmers a few times), same with JR and his man.

I'm not saying the Knicks are in a position to win the series with Shump playing, but they most certainly have no shot without him. You don't want Fields guarding LBJ or Wade, 1-on-1...as a matter of fact, you can't have that. But you also can't help off of Chalmers, Miller, Battier, or Jones.

See...when I start seeing (and hearing) people say things like "they have potentials to be discovered. They're NBA players. They need to believe. Theoretically, you need 6 guys to defend Miami's big three" I start getting royally pissed off. I don't mean to attack anyone, I don't wanna be THAT GUY, but none of that means anything.

Every single player on the Knicks can believe with their heart of hearts that they can accomplish anything in the world...and if Baron Davis walks the basketball up the court, while Miami gets set 1 thru 5, on the defensive end...we're playing into their hands.

If Baron walks it up, eats up 6-7 seconds doing so; keeps his dribble while looking around, Miami is denying Melo all the way out past the 3 point line, he finally gets the ball with about 13 seconds left on the clock, he's now standing at the free throw line extended (way out on the wing), he looks up, and he sees Novak blanketed, Tyson fronted, Baron on the other god damn side of the court -- opposite free throw line extended, and JR desperately trying to get away from Wade or Chalmers....what does Melo do? Is it selfish for him to try to get his own shot there? Where does he apply his truly unselfish mind, and go with the ball?

And in scenarios where Melo is being fronted about 18 feet from the cup, why does Baron....after he expends the 6-7 seconds walking it up...why does he take another 2-3 seconds trying to make the perfect lob pass to Melo behind the man fronting him? Now once again, Melo finally gets the ball, 13-14 seconds on the shot clock, he's either blitzed with another defender, sent baseline so the help can meet him at the rim, or he faces up, and sees what I described in the previous paragraph.

What is he to do?

To avoid those situations, the team needs to get into it's offense quicker. I don't want to blame Baron, because he's trying. But if he's not gonna push in transition, then he needs to attack in the half court set a bit more....I counted Baron getting to the rim twice in the game yesterday. Once for a floater, and the other where he shook Miller. Conversely, Lin lived in the paint.

These are the kind of things you need to look at, but people don't...then they approach me with "Oh man, Melo is so selfish dawg", and all I can think is:

36a4yr.jpg


Alright.....rant over.....

In case I hurt some feelings or whatever, it's nothing personal. I have people that I see everyday that says wild ****, so when I come on here and see some of the stuff said. I activate beast mode.

No hard feelings! You've got your points.

I know if I dig into the games, the analysis would look exactly like yours. That's why I deceided to leave the ball passing responsibility to high-paid Melo and wish for the right game plan and right players to execute it.

Could you help me with the following quote? I mean can you explain why we can't be like that?
The Sixers rarely run isolation plays, which is exactly the way they like it. According to Elton Brand, the more different players get to handle the ball, the better the team?s defenseis?

Huh?


"When you iso a lot you don't have that shared responsibility on defense. It's kind of human nature ?if you work hard to get a guy a layup, he'll want to return the favor and play harder on defense," Brand explained.

Brand, a two-time All-Star, was the focal point of the offense when he played for the Clippers and averaged upto 18 shots per game one season. Often, the offense filtered through him on the post, which Brand says didn't look like too much fun for his teammates. Truthbe told, he prefers the Sixers' style of offense.

This season the Sixers had seven different players lead the team in scoring in the first 10 games.

That's unpredicatable and acceptable to me. Or say ideal.

I know it's easier said than done. So I'll keep listening to you guys.

BTW, that "upgrade to pro today" icon is rather cute. Can't do it in one day though. Got to give me time. :)
 
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