Amare and Melo

Kiyaman

Legend
I love how the same media who acted as if we were better without Melo months ago are now turning their sights to Melo and Amare not being able to co-exist.

If anyone is a hindrance in my opinion to Amare's game its Chandler because he doesn't free up the paint. Amare has always been use to having a stretch the floor big which gave him a free path now he has to adjust his game and learn to play while sharing the paint more.
smh

:agreed: the two super-stars didnt co-exist in any games lastseason or throughout
this season under Dantoni's coaching, the media wrote/said nothing of this.
Stat & Chandler has not found their place in the same lineup under either
coach Dantoni or Woodson, Knicks sports media/announcers doesnt mention anything
about the poor chemistry in our frontcourt bigmen players.

Tyson Chandler is the only reliable bigman we could throw a low post-up alley-oop pass to....
why is that?
Stat should be our post-up center on offense.
On defense Chandler is our down-low center.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
I just feel like there needs to be a pecking order

Pippen knew Jordan was the man, so he played off of him because he knows what was best for the team

Kobe played off of Shaq but then his ego got in the way

Gasol played off Kobe for obvious reason

Even David Robinson played off of Tim Duncan

Kareem and James played off of Magic

do you get my point, if we do the OKC thing where KD and Russ take turns, Miami LeBron and Wade takes turns, that wont work

The offense is run through Melo, STAT will get his opportunities like Nene did in Denver he averaged about 14 and 7 playing off of Melo, STAT can be an 18 and 11 guy and thats all we need. Melo can be the 25 and 8 guy we all know he can be and thats how you create flow, because now we arent forcing STAT and Melo to get touches but letting it created itself, just because the O runs through Melo doesn't mean he'll be our leading score every night, sometimes its STAT because he's attacking the glass and cutting to the basket for easy dunks, JR or Novak come off the bench and go off, Lin has a big night

But we have to establish order with the team, all great teams have that, its why Miami flopped in the Finals, Dallas established Dirk as the man and that is what they went with, one night for Miami it was Wade, then James, then they forced it to Bosh

Order people Order
 

fender0577

Rotation player
I just feel like there needs to be a pecking order

Pippen knew Jordan was the man, so he played off of him because he knows what was best for the team

Kobe played off of Shaq but then his ego got in the way

Gasol played off Kobe for obvious reason

Even David Robinson played off of Tim Duncan

Kareem and James played off of Magic

do you get my point, if we do the OKC thing where KD and Russ take turns, Miami LeBron and Wade takes turns, that wont work

The offense is run through Melo, STAT will get his opportunities like Nene did in Denver he averaged about 14 and 7 playing off of Melo, STAT can be an 18 and 11 guy and thats all we need. Melo can be the 25 and 8 guy we all know he can be and thats how you create flow, because now we arent forcing STAT and Melo to get touches but letting it created itself, just because the O runs through Melo doesn't mean he'll be our leading score every night, sometimes its STAT because he's attacking the glass and cutting to the basket for easy dunks, JR or Novak come off the bench and go off, Lin has a big night

But we have to establish order with the team, all great teams have that, its why Miami flopped in the Finals, Dallas established Dirk as the man and that is what they went with, one night for Miami it was Wade, then James, then they forced it to Bosh

Order people Order
:agreed::agreed::agreed:Go post, and we saw that last game STAT sat back let MELO get his, then went in the fourth.
 
"Stat should be our post-up center on offense.
On defense Chandler is our down-low center."

Yes, this is how to go. Melo to Amare.....and 1!
 

Red

TYPE-A
I just feel like there needs to be a pecking order

Pippen knew Jordan was the man, so he played off of him because he knows what was best for the team

Kobe played off of Shaq but then his ego got in the way

Gasol played off Kobe for obvious reason

Even David Robinson played off of Tim Duncan

Kareem and James played off of Magic

do you get my point, if we do the OKC thing where KD and Russ take turns, Miami LeBron and Wade takes turns, that wont work

The offense is run through Melo, STAT will get his opportunities like Nene did in Denver he averaged about 14 and 7 playing off of Melo, STAT can be an 18 and 11 guy and thats all we need. Melo can be the 25 and 8 guy we all know he can be and thats how you create flow, because now we arent forcing STAT and Melo to get touches but letting it created itself, just because the O runs through Melo doesn't mean he'll be our leading score every night, sometimes its STAT because he's attacking the glass and cutting to the basket for easy dunks, JR or Novak come off the bench and go off, Lin has a big night

But we have to establish order with the team, all great teams have that, its why Miami flopped in the Finals, Dallas established Dirk as the man and that is what they went with, one night for Miami it was Wade, then James, then they forced it to Bosh

Order people Order

I agree and its not complicated. We had identity issues up until you-know-who departed.

After that, we had to establish a new identity moreso on offense. Our Defensive identity was a work in progress although it was more progressive with TC & Shump.

The struggles we had with Melo were simple. He had to conform and was minimized and we could all tell he wasn't happy, and the team didn't recognize (possibly due to MDA conditioning where anyone and everyone should/could score- bizzaro nonsense).

Now after all the struggles, it should be obvious who our offensive leader is.

It was difficult because Amare a) is proud (ego), and b)held it down the year (1/2) before.

Its still a work in progress on Amare's part, because now he needs to do the dirty work most good pf's do to be that scoring threat. Now the spotlight is on him, Melo proved himself.

Now we see the need for Amare to clean the boards, to be a defender, etc... he's not use to that. He's use to getting a pass (MDA again!) because he scored.

He seems to be adjusting well, and he's lost weight. Kudos to him. Next year Woody will design a better offensive gameplan complete with contengincies and philosophy where Amare can be highlighted more.

But that starts with the recognition that Melo is the priority, everyone else gets in where they fit in, I.e. Novak.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
I agree and its not complicated. We had identity issues up until you-know-who departed.

After that, we had to establish a new identity moreso on offense. Our Defensive identity was a work in progress although it was more progressive with TC & Shump.

The struggles we had with Melo were simple. He had to conform and was minimized and we could all tell he wasn't happy, and the team didn't recognize (possibly due to MDA conditioning where anyone and everyone should/could score- bizzaro nonsense).

Now after all the struggles, it should be obvious who our offensive leader is.

It was difficult because Amare a) is proud (ego), and b)held it down the year (1/2) before.

Its still a work in progress on Amare's part, because now he needs to do the dirty work most good pf's do to be that scoring threat. Now the spotlight is on him, Melo proved himself.

Now we see the need for Amare to clean the boards, to be a defender, etc... he's not use to that. He's use to getting a pass (MDA again!) because he scored.

He seems to be adjusting well, and he's lost weight. Kudos to him. Next year Woody will design a better offensive gameplan complete with contengincies and philosophy where Amare can be highlighted more.

But that starts with the recognition that Melo is the priority, everyone else gets in where they fit in, I.e. Novak.

completely agree
 
This would make sense if Amare actually had post up ability. Sadly he doesn't, so.... um not gonna happen.

Haha...I'm sure stat was back in the lab watching TC do them sneaky cuts to the board...receiving dimes and positioning. Too bad Amare never had a coach like Woody a long time ago...someone who would have brought out his full potential. I think he'll adjust and find his flow. I do see some fire in his eyes...gotta let a dude rock when you see that. Benefit of the doubt. We will see thou...
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
I just feel like there needs to be a pecking order

Pippen knew Jordan was the man, so he played off of him because he knows what was best for the team

Kobe played off of Shaq but then his ego got in the way

Gasol played off Kobe for obvious reason

Even David Robinson played off of Tim Duncan

Kareem and James played off of Magic

do you get my point, if we do the OKC thing where KD and Russ take turns, Miami LeBron and Wade takes turns, that wont work

The offense is run through Melo, STAT will get his opportunities like Nene did in Denver he averaged about 14 and 7 playing off of Melo, STAT can be an 18 and 11 guy and thats all we need. Melo can be the 25 and 8 guy we all know he can be and thats how you create flow, because now we arent forcing STAT and Melo to get touches but letting it created itself, just because the O runs through Melo doesn't mean he'll be our leading score every night, sometimes its STAT because he's attacking the glass and cutting to the basket for easy dunks, JR or Novak come off the bench and go off, Lin has a big night

But we have to establish order with the team, all great teams have that, its why Miami flopped in the Finals, Dallas established Dirk as the man and that is what they went with, one night for Miami it was Wade, then James, then they forced it to Bosh

Order people Order


Good post I think the pecking order might be established Melo, then Amare, the who ever else steps up that night.

In MDA offense it really made everyone outside the PG equals so Melo was getting the same amount of touches as Fields and Amare getting the same amount of touches as Chandler which should not happen. Offensively your two best players need the ball most of the time to be successful in this league.

O yea and it was not just Kobe fault with the whole Shaq beef they did dumb shit
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
Good post I think the pecking order might be established Melo, then Amare, the who ever else steps up that night.

In MDA offense it really made everyone outside the PG equals so Melo was getting the same amount of touches as Fields and Amare getting the same amount of touches as Chandler which should not happen. Offensively your two best players need the ball most of the time to be successful in this league.

O yea and it was not just Kobe fault with the whole Shaq beef they did dumb shit

I expect you to know more, what was the real problem between the two of them
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
I expect you to know more, what was the real problem between the two of them

The real prob stemmed originally from the personality differences Kobe being more reserved and serious with Shaq being out going and comical. They never had issues about who should be getting more touches or things on the court but Kobe did have an issue with Shaq's work ethic and coming in to camp out of shape and let it be known to Shaq. And Shaq being the leader took offense to that and called Kobe out for disrespecting him.

It was not Kobe wanting more shots and being jealous of Shaq or Shaq not wanting to give Kobe more shots and being selfish. It wasn't basketball reasons they just really didn't like each other on a personal level at the time.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
The real prob stemmed originally from the personality differences Kobe being more reserved and serious with Shaq being out going and comical. They never had issues about who should be getting more touches or things on the court but Kobe did have an issue with Shaq's work ethic and coming in to camp out of shape and let it be known to Shaq. And Shaq being the leader took offense to that and called Kobe out for disrespecting him.

It was not Kobe wanting more shots and being jealous of Shaq or Shaq not wanting to give Kobe more shots and being selfish. It wasn't basketball reasons they just really didn't like each other on a personal level at the time.

damn shame, Kobe and Shaq would have like 7 rings if not for that non-sense

Turns out Kobe was right though, I honestly think as dominate Shaq was, Kobe has had a way better career

what do you think
 

Kiyaman

Legend
The real prob stemmed originally from the personality differences Kobe being more reserved and serious with Shaq being out going and comical. They never had issues about who should be getting more touches or things on the court but Kobe did have an issue with Shaq's work ethic and coming in to camp out of shape and let it be known to Shaq. And Shaq being the leader took offense to that and called Kobe out for disrespecting him.

It was not Kobe wanting more shots and being jealous of Shaq or Shaq not wanting to give Kobe more shots and being selfish. It wasn't basketball reasons they just really didn't like each other on a personal level at the time.


It had more to do with the "Glove" and "Mailman" replacing Rick Fox & Horry's average 6 shot attempt (each) per game....Shaq automatically will receive his average 15 shot attempts by being the #1 unstopple low post-up centers in the league....Kobe had to depend on a 15 shot attempt "Glove" givin him the ball, rather than the "Glove" averaging the majority of his 12 assist per game off of alley-oops to Shaq & Mailman.
Shaq leadership told Kobe in so many ways to stop acting like a BABY....Phil Jax wrote indirectly in his book in so many chapters "some time u have to let MEN settle certain things on their own".
:smokin::gony: :smokin:
 

lookgrabpull

Benchwarmer
I think our biggest problem under Woodson is not how Amare and Melo can co-exist, because as many have noted, we can work out a system where Amare feeds off Melo's Iso.

I think the biggest problem is that Chandler and Amare have trouble sharing the paint. From what little I saw when they play together, there is very little spacing in the paint with both of them up front, and so we take a ton of jumpshots.

Another problem is that Amare can't defend. And so whenever Chandler is not up there we have a big gaping hole in the paint for penetrations and post ups.

So our choice becomes: do we go with chandler more and give up the offensive power or Amare, or do we go with Amare and jeopardize our defense.

I personally think Amare is completely unsuited for our current team lineup and defensive-oriented system. Not because he's a bad player, on the contrary - he's so dominant up front and needs space to operate and take advantage of his opponent's D.

To conclude, for the remaining games I would alternate between Stat and Tyson depending on the situation.

In the offseason, I'd look into trading Stat for a more jumpshot oriented PF, that can be a better defender, i believe it's possible. Don't forget that we need the capspace too.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
I think our biggest problem under Woodson is not how Amare and Melo can co-exist, because as many have noted, we can work out a system where Amare feeds off Melo's Iso.

I think the biggest problem is that Chandler and Amare have trouble sharing the paint. From what little I saw when they play together, there is very little spacing in the paint with both of them up front, and so we take a ton of jumpshots.

Another problem is that Amare can't defend. And so whenever Chandler is not up there we have a big gaping hole in the paint for penetrations and post ups.

So our choice becomes: do we go with chandler more and give up the offensive power or Amare, or do we go with Amare and jeopardize our defense.

I personally think Amare is completely unsuited for our current team lineup and defensive-oriented system. Not because he's a bad player, on the contrary - he's so dominant up front and needs space to operate and take advantage of his opponent's D.

To conclude, for the remaining games I would alternate between Stat and Tyson depending on the situation.

In the offseason, I'd look into trading Stat for a more jumpshot oriented PF, that can be a better defender, i believe it's possible. Don't forget that we need the capspace too.

I think you make some good points here. It reminds me how Z Randolph and Gasol have no problem playing with each other because they have good spacing in the post. Amare and Tyson could work but i'd be lying if I said I didn't want the team to explore trade opportunites for Amare. His contract is going to kill us in 1-2 years when he totally breaks down.
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
It had more to do with the "Glove" and "Mailman" replacing Rick Fox & Horry's average 6 shot attempt (each) per game....Shaq automatically will receive his average 15 shot attempts by being the #1 unstopple low post-up centers in the league....Kobe had to depend on a 15 shot attempt "Glove" givin him the ball, rather than the "Glove" averaging the majority of his 12 assist per game off of alley-oops to Shaq & Mailman.
Shaq leadership told Kobe in so many ways to stop acting like a BABY....Phil Jax wrote indirectly in his book in so many chapters "some time u have to let MEN settle certain things on their own".
:smokin::gony: :smokin:

Payton and Malon accelerated and increased their beef but it started before that 03-04 season, that was just the breaking point.

And yes I do think Kobe will retire with the better career outta the two.
 

NYCLakerfan

Rotation player
And a trade for STAT is not happening and your not got gonna get a star PF back as good as Amare is nobody's gonna take that risk. And let's see what kind of job Woodson can do to get these two guys to gel with more time before we say STAT doesn't fit or anything like that he does fit, a month ago it was Melo who doesn't fit lets finally stop jumping to conclusions and sit back and just see what happens.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Stat is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Get over it......
Stat's contract, past knee surgery, and all these ailing injuries popin up makes Stat a Knicks 2013-14 season.

If u want Stat back to his super-star status gellin with his teammates do what headcoach Gentry would do if he had Woody's job....train two decent F/C to backup Tyson Chandler & Stat.

Trying to make Stat & Melo play defense consistently is a waste of time and good energy....the two already received their final big contract in the NBA.
 
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