Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Why Mike Woodson should NOT get the job

  1. #1
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,580
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Why Mike Woodson should NOT get the job

    Alright, I'm going to preface this thread with the heads-up that much like the eve of every other Knicks' last game of the season, I am currently drunk. But still, I am now going to make the case why Mike Woodson should not get the Knicks' head coaching job for the start of next season.

    First off, I'd like to go ahead and say that my argument against Woodson has nothing to do with his overall quality as a coach. I think he is a hell of a coach and absolutely should be a head coach in this league. Just not with us.

    So, here we go:

    1) We need a coach who will figure out to maximize the production of Melo and Amare as a tandem, because, guess what, they're about all we're going to have barring a trade giving our salary cap situation. By maximize I mean that they both need to play like superstars. We're talking 2/5's of the East All-Star team each year. We will not succeed w/o this. How can we do it? I don't know, because I've now seen 2 coaches fail miserably at making this happen. That's why this is reason numero why we need someone else at the helm.

    2) We need a coach who believes in Jeremy Lin. Why? Because guess what? Dolan is going to make sure we give what little we have left of the cap to Lin because he is a damn profitable mo fo. Why do I think Woodson doesn't believe in Lin? Look at Lin's minutes after Woodson took over and before Lin got hurt. I know we were still winning, but bottom line is our head coach at the beginning of next season needs to be all in on Lin, because he will be the engine that drives this train.

    3) We need a coach who doesn't continue to milk a guy to win regular season games for 2 months that is useless in the playoffs. Woodson should have seen that Novak would be useless in a playoff series with a top defensive team that could neutralize him. You can't base a huge part of your winning strategy around an option that will be a no-show in the playoffs.

    4) JR Smith. At some point Woodson should have pulled the plug on him. He never did. Knicks have too much of a history of bringing in guys who are trainwrecks when it matters to have a coach who doesn't know when to say when about a player who is SUPPOSED to contribute.

    Well, that's what I got for now. I look forward to your counter-arguments. Go Knicks!...in 2012-2013!

    Addendum: And yes, I do think Patrick Ewing should be our next head coach. We owe him that much and I think he is up to the task.

  2. #2
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by htr10
    2) We need a coach who believes in Jeremy Lin. Why? Because guess what? Dolan is going to make sure we give what little we have left of the cap to Lin because he is a damn profitable mo fo. Why do I think Woodson doesn't believe in Lin? Look at Lin's minutes after Woodson took over and before Lin got hurt. I know we were still winning, but bottom line is our head coach at the beginning of next season needs to be all in on Lin, because he will be the engine that drives this train.
    I saw someone else say this on this forum... and it's just a bad point.

    Jeremy and Melo both literally averaged 28 minutes per game during that stretch. If you're saying Woodson doesn't believe in Jeremy, then I guess Woodson doesn't believe in Melo either. If you can remember, they both didn't play that much because we were blowing teams out practically every game.

    The ball movement and shot distribution during that stretch was great as well.

    Lin averaged 9 FGA per game at 28 MPG.
    Amar'e averaged 11 FGA per game at 30 MPG.
    Melo averaged 13 FGA per game at 28 MPG.


    That said, I don't want Woodson back either. I think Iso is his natural way of coaching the offense, and I just hate that sort of game. Bron and Wade just called out our iso game in the post game too. Wade said Pacers are the better team.

  3. #3
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,580
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by ChartFiction
    I saw someone else say this on this forum... and it's just a bad point.

    Jeremy and Melo both literally averaged 28 minutes per game during that stretch. If you're saying Woodson doesn't believe in Jeremy, then I guess Woodson doesn't believe in Melo either. If you can remember, they both didn't play that much because we were blowing teams out practically every game.

    The ball movement and shot distribution during that stretch was great as well.

    Lin averaged 9 FGA per game at 28 MPG.
    Amar'e averaged 11 FGA per game at 30 MPG.
    Melo averaged 13 FGA per game at 28 MPG.


    That said, I don't want Woodson back either. I think Iso is his natural way of coaching the offense, and I just hate that sort of game. Bron and Wade just called out our iso game in the post game too. Wade said Pacers are the better team.
    First off, thanks for responding. Second, you make an interesting point. My thoughts about Woodson not believing in Lin had a lot to do with comparing Lin's playing time with Woodson compared to his playing time with MDA. The numbers you provided on Amare and Melo's playing makes me re-think that statistic.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    68
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Lets trade woodson! Hate to see iso melo and iso jr.

  5. #5
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chinabury
    Posts
    3,313
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    I agree with ChartFictions opinion about #2

    And i half disagree with u about #4, JR Smith wasnt playing too good but Fields was a non factor for the most part in this series. Someone had to take the shots, and Smith can explode like a superstar when he gets hot. Hes a guy that can get close to 30 any given day, the fact that he didnt do this against Miami says something about their defense. But I do believe against most teams, Smith would still be inconsistent but at least get hot in a couple games. We were short on players, someone had to get the minutes and the shots. Smith was really the only other player we had besides Melo that could break a defense down too, even though Miami rarely let that happen. Smith got his sometimes though

    #1 is on point assuming Amarknee returns next year....

    I also agree about #3, Novak wasnt really worth of minutes against Cryami


    Overall I like Woodson, but i gotta be honest and say we'd probably be better off with another coach. Id like to see Woodson stay as an assistant

  6. #6
    Member GoKnicks!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Knickelodeon
    Posts
    88
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by Peter
    Lets trade woodson! Hate to see iso melo and iso jr.
    This. What boring basketball. Watch the heat and you see why they're an elite team. Even though Lebron and wade score the most, the ball movement is artwork among them. Watching Melo and Jr is like watching... Melo and Jr with Denver.

  7. #7
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Well I disagree about him pulling the plug on JR. He had no choice but to stick with him because there was nobody else that could provide firepower with enough athleticism on defense. He had to stick with him, trainwreck or not. Although in some games it was completely obvious he was cold as ice and should have been taken out.

    But I agree with your concept though. I think he was way to loyal to Fields. We might have won game 5 if just kept Landry Butterfinger Fields on the bench. He screwed up at the most pivotal moments, as usual.

    I also agree with him getting the most out of Melo and Amara as a duo and I think it correlates directly with Novak getting shut down this series. It was basically a double isolation offense completely innefective of getting Novak open for even .5 of a second. Even the worst teams can get their 3 point specialist half a dozen catch and shoot attempts a game. And that's another reason why JR had to play because he can create his own 3's.

    Even with Lin they aren't gonna be able to wing it in the playoffs next year against the elite Miami defense. They need a true system because Stat just isn't good enough for iso but he always has the excuse that he doesn't get enough shots. If Melo had confidence in him he'd get his shots.

    But I think Woodson should stay because I can't recall when the Knicks played such good defense. It totally covered up the lack of a offensive system...until the playoffs.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    193
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    I still find it laughable some of you think amre can realistically be traded this offseason

  9. #9
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    402
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by htr10
    First off, thanks for responding. Second, you make an interesting point. My thoughts about Woodson not believing in Lin had a lot to do with comparing Lin's playing time with Woodson compared to his playing time with MDA. The numbers you provided on Amare and Melo's playing makes me re-think that statistic.
    Okay 2 things here. One, MDA played Lin for such large minutes because we had a plethora of injuries in that stretch and Lin was effectively our be all and end all scorer with STAT & Melo out.

    Two, Woodson utilised much more of our roster, especially in blowouts to rest the starters as we had a tough schedule. The fact that Baron Davis was out for 90% of Lin's run under MDA also contributed to his increased minutes as we had no effective backup.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    217
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    Originally Posted by Tokie420
    I still find it laughable some of you think amre can realistically be traded this offseason
    The same way you feel about Stat is the same way other teams feel about their bad contracts. If the situation comes up, Knicks can trade Stat.

  11. #11
    Member Hayato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    413
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Originally Posted by Cuckoo
    The same way you feel about Stat is the same way other teams feel about their bad contracts. If the situation comes up, Knicks can trade Stat.
    yeah maybe they could... but they wont

  12. #12
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,308
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by htr10
    Alright, I'm going to preface this thread with the heads-up that much like the eve of every other Knicks' last game of the season, I am currently drunk. But still, I am now going to make the case why Mike Woodson should not get the Knicks' head coaching job for the start of next season.


    Originally Posted by htr10
    First off, I'd like to go ahead and say that my argument against Woodson has nothing to do with his overall quality as a coach. I think he is a hell of a coach and absolutely should be a head coach in this league. Just not with us.
    You can't ask for more than quality, relative to other options available. Plus more listed below at the end...

    So, here we go:

    Originally Posted by htr10
    1) We need a coach who will figure out to maximize the production of Melo and Amare as a tandem, because, guess what, they're about all we're going to have barring a trade giving our salary cap situation. By maximize I mean that they both need to play like superstars. We're talking 2/5's of the East All-Star team each year. We will not succeed w/o this. How can we do it? I don't know, because I've now seen 2 coaches fail miserably at making this happen. That's why this is reason numero why we need someone else at the helm.
    No coach can be an absolute solution especially when figuring how STAT & Meloo are incorporated because only TWO have had limited time with them. (A very tumultuous time I might add with the injuries and such)

    One of them not only produced a winning record, but got things out of them individually that were seen as skeptical. (Amare's [and the team's] defense, Melo's shot, etc...)

    Originally Posted by htr10
    2) We need a coach who believes in Jeremy Lin. Why? Because guess what? Dolan is going to make sure we give what little we have left of the cap to Lin because he is a damn profitable mo fo. Why do I think Woodson doesn't believe in Lin? Look at Lin's minutes after Woodson took over and before Lin got hurt. I know we were still winning, but bottom line is our head coach at the beginning of next season needs to be all in on Lin, because he will be the engine that drives this train.
    This theory is flawed. A) Lin is injured and unable to perform making him a medical question (see knee injuries in young ball players) B) His resume is limited and partly skewed

    but yet, even IF forced to accept Lin, Woodson has demonstrated a control of playing time, i.e. if Lin sucks, possibly due to injury or whatever reason, he won't get burn. How far Jerem'y goes is up to him, God, and his agent. Woodson can't be seen as a coach that will impeded Lin, there's no evidence of that. Health and Lin's shortcomings can be attributed more to Lin than Woodson (or his system).

    Originally Posted by htr10
    3) We need a coach who doesn't continue to milk a guy to win regular season games for 2 months that is useless in the playoffs. Woodson should have seen that Novak would be useless in a playoff series with a top defensive team that could neutralize him. You can't base a huge part of your winning strategy around an option that will be a no-show in the playoffs.
    Understand that Novak plays a part (an important part) of ANY serious team. There aren't too many Novak's. I think the positive is that Novak showed what he has against the best, now Woodson and management can make more informed decisions.

    Originally Posted by htr10
    4) JR Smith. At some point Woodson should have pulled the plug on him. He never did. Knicks have too much of a history of bringing in guys who are trainwrecks when it matters to have a coach who doesn't know when to say when about a player who is SUPPOSED to contribute.
    This is a poor point. Smith had extended minutes due to injury. His number was called as per the depth-chart. Him being a feast or famine player is independent of Woodson using him. He had NO SG's! I do not include Fields in the SG conversation. (Because we are considering Fields as a SG due to a former coach who was unorthodox and ruins some peoples games). Can Fields be a SG- he anything is possible, but right now he's a backup 3.

    BAck to the point, JR and what Woody had to work with are not his fault at all.

    Originally Posted by htr10
    Well, that's what I got for now. I look forward to your counter-arguments. Go Knicks!...in 2012-2013!

    Addendum: And yes, I do think Patrick Ewing should be our next head coach. We owe him that much and I think he is up to the task.
    Pat huh?

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    217
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    Even an average coach like Frank Vogle knows how to get "vaccinated" against Flopfluenza virus before playing Heat:

    Indiana coach Frank Vogel wasted no time on Thursday taking shots at the Heat, claiming the Heat are "the biggest flopping team in the NBA."
    Led by Heat forwards Udonis Haslem and Shane Battier, the Heat drew the fourth-most charges in the NBA during the regular season, according to Hoopdata.com. Vogel took issue with the Heat's exaggeration of contact instead of choosing to make plays above the rim.
    "Every drive to the basket, they have guys not making a play on the ball, but sliding in front of drivers," Vogel said. "Oftentimes, they're falling down even before contact is even being made. It'll be interesting to see how the series is officiated."
    Miami heard Vogel's message loud and clear. Speaking a day later at Friday's practice at AmericanAirlines Arena, the Heat responded. But mostly with a shrug.
    "We could care less," Spoelstra said of Vogel's assertions. "We're a physical team and we're focused on what's ahead of us. Part of our defensive philosophy is putting our bodies in front of offensive players. That's what we've been doing for years and years."
    LeBron James and Dwyane Wade echoed Spoelstra's reaction.
    "We don't get caught up in that, honestly," James said. "We've been thrown under the bus. So we've heard everything. There's nothing that you can say to our team that can get us extra motivated. We don't really care.''
    Wade said he doesn't care about the off-court banter.
    "We really don't get into going back and forth too much with what people say," Wade said. "Everyone has their own opinion and they can use it whenever they want to, and that's fine."
    Heat forward Chris Bosh, however, is using the comments as fuel for Sunday's game.
    "It's fantastic motivation," Bosh said. "We know it's going to come down to heart and determination. Everything else is just motivation."
    On Friday afternoon, speaking to 790 the Ticket, a South Florida radio station, Vogel didn't back down from what he called "harmless" comments while reiterating his frustrations with the Heat's defensive approach.
    "Flopping is a problem in this league," Vogel said. "Miami certainly has some guys who do a lot of it. I just don't think it's good for the game in general.
    "We've got the greatest athletes in the world. There's nothing more exciting for our fans to see an athletic play made above the rim. When a defender's intent is to fall down and hope for a whistle, I don't think that's good for the game. That was only my point."
    As one of the Heat's top charge-takers, Haslem said he won't change his mentality because of Vogel's comments.
    "I'm speechless," Haslem said. "I don't know. He's entitled to his opinion. A charge is a charge. I take mine. It's up the referee to make the call. I don't know what it is. If that's the way (Vogel) feels, that's the way he feels. It's not going to change the way we play the game, how we step in there or how we take hits. The referees are going to do their job."
    The Heat defeated the New York Knicks on Wednesday night in the series clincher. Wade and James are known to be the top foul-drawing players in the game. In the first-round series against New York, the Heat won the free-throw battle, generating 151 free-throw attempts. New York had 109.
    Spoelstra foresees a physical series against the Pacers.
    "This next series, I'm sure, will feel like it's played in a cage rather than on a basketball court," Spoelstra said after Miami's win over the Knicks. "It'll be that physical."
    The Pacers enter Sunday's game as one of the league's hottest teams, beating the Orlando Magic in five games and winning 14 of their last 17 games dating to early April.
    Sunday's matchup will be the first game between the two teams since March 23, when Indiana won by 15 points on its home floor. The Heat won the three previous matchups by a total of 52 points.
    James disagreed with a reporter on Wednesday who suggested the Pacers have had the upper hand against the Heat this season.
    "I don't think they've given us too many problems, personally," James said. "We played some great ball against them. I think we gave them more problems than they gave us."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  14. #14
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    6,930
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Originally Posted by htr10
    Alright, I'm going to preface this thread with the heads-up that much like the eve of every other Knicks' last game of the season, I am currently drunk. But still, I am now going to make the case why Mike Woodson should not get the Knicks' head coaching job for the start of next season.

    First off, I'd like to go ahead and say that my argument against Woodson has nothing to do with his overall quality as a coach. I think he is a hell of a coach and absolutely should be a head coach in this league. Just not with us.

    So, here we go:

    1) We need a coach who will figure out to maximize the production of Melo and Amare as a tandem, because, guess what, they're about all we're going to have barring a trade giving our salary cap situation. By maximize I mean that they both need to play like superstars. We're talking 2/5's of the East All-Star team each year. We will not succeed w/o this. How can we do it? I don't know, because I've now seen 2 coaches fail miserably at making this happen. That's why this is reason numero why we need someone else at the helm.

    Whoa! a interim coach is not going to risk his chance at becoming the headcoach by screaming or yelling at Stat and Melo to co-exist as star players, or to pass the ball to teammates, or to get back on defense, or to play defense, or to screen for a $1M per Novak.

    2) We need a coach who believes in Jeremy Lin. Why? Because guess what? Dolan is going to make sure we give what little we have left of the cap to Lin because he is a damn profitable mo fo. Why do I think Woodson doesn't believe in Lin? Look at Lin's minutes after Woodson took over and before Lin got hurt. I know we were still winning, but bottom line is our head coach at the beginning of next season needs to be all in on Lin, because he will be the engine that drives this train.
    Lin co-exist well with Tyson/Jeff/Novak/Fields/Shump. Lin did not co-exist well with a stop the ball movement no passing Stat, plus Lin (like Stat) wanted no part of the Denver Nuggets Melo & JR show in Knicks uniform. Our interim coach seen this in Lin's performance when both Stat & Melo return to the rotation to hand Dantoni a 6 game losing streak....resignation.

    3) We need a coach who doesn't continue to milk a guy to win regular season games for 2 months that is useless in the playoffs. Woodson should have seen that Novak would be useless in a playoff series with a top defensive team that could neutralize him. You can't base a huge part of your winning strategy around an option that will be a no-show in the playoffs.
    In March the fan base was calling for Carmelo Anthony head for returning to the lineup to give the Knicks 6 straight losses, plus Melo did not show any effort co-exist with Lin or Stat.
    Novak was useless in the playoffs b/c the two guys (Melo & JR) that draw double team defenders always shot the ball, turning our offense into two touches then ISO. Miami defense was decent but our problem was a 42 minute Melo controlling the offense.

    4) JR Smith. At some point Woodson should have pulled the plug on him. He never did. Knicks have too much of a history of bringing in guys who are trainwrecks when it matters to have a coach who doesn't know when to say when about a player who is SUPPOSED to contribute.
    When Stat & Lin got injured in April. Melo wanted his ex-teammate JR Smith to receive 32+ minutes in the rotation. No interim coach would be foolish to deny Super-Star Melo, especially when the two scorers won 60% of the games in April on the strength of Tyson & Shump strong defense in the final quarters.

    Addendum: And yes, I do think Patrick Ewing should be our next head coach. We owe him that much and I think he is up to the task
    Patrick Ewing demanded to be traded a month after the Knicks visit to the FINALS.......Dolan has not got over that.
    Last edited by Kiyaman; May 12, 2012 at 01:06.

  15. #15
    Member JujuXG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    217
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    The problems I have with woodson is his offensive game plan is just iso melo.
    That won't work, which has been proven this year and previous years.

Similar Threads

  1. Good article on keeping Mike Woodson
    By StreetDreams21 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: May 08, 2012, 15:11
  2. Mike Woodson Head Coach thread
    By MeloforMayor in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: Mar 30, 2012, 16:20
  3. D'Antoni: Mike Woodson Not A Defensive Coach!
    By Crazy⑧s in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Dec 15, 2011, 10:40
  4. Mike Woodson to be named defensive assistant
    By Paul1355 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Aug 25, 2011, 15:54

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •