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Thread: You Have to Deal Melo AND Amar'e, Then We Can Build Around Lin

  1. #31
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    So we tanked three seasons, traded away every loose piece we had to get two main guys...

    To trade them to build around a guy who has had 8 good weeks in the NBA?
    I think this is a shaky assumption that we have two main guys.

    To my mind, we have two guys that are overpayed and overhyped.

    Lin balled for only a short time, but he is a better team player than Melo and he is more complete as a baller compared to Amar'e. Lin does everything for you while Amar'e is a one-dimensional piece of paper.

  2. #32
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Just because we tanked three seasons for this roster does not mean we made good moves.

    It's entirely possible to tank three seasons and make big mistakes that squander the house cleaning. I think this is the situation we are looking at here.

  3. #33
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    I think this is a shaky assumption that we have two main guys.

    To my mind, we have two guys that are overpayed and overhyped.

    Lin balled for only a short time, but he is a better team player than Melo and he is more complete as a baller compared to Amar'e. Lin does everything for you while Amar'e is a one-dimensional piece of paper.
    How do you know that?

    He had 8 good weeks in the NBA. Melo has a track record of being at least a very good player, same with Amare. Overpaid, maybe. But I am betting on the guy with a track record. Not the guy who has had 8 weeks.

    This whole thread is idiotic.

  4. #34
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    Just because we tanked three seasons for this roster does not mean we made good moves.

    It's entirely possible to tank three seasons and make big mistakes that squander the house cleaning. I think this is the situation we are looking at here.
    You're right.

    We should rebuild for 3 years to give up on it after 1 lockout-shortened year to build around a guy who has played 8 weeks in the NBA.

    Short-sightedness for the win.

  5. #35
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    How do you know that?

    He had 8 good weeks in the NBA. Melo has a track record of being at least a very good player, same with Amare. Overpaid, maybe. But I am betting on the guy with a track record. Not the guy who has had 8 weeks.

    This whole thread is idiotic.
    I'm not sure what track record you're talking about.

    Maybe the one that has him at the lowest playoffs winning percentage out of ANY player over the last 20 years.

    25 points per game is always nice to look at on the stat sheet, but the reality is not so clear. It's possible to be able to drop 25 every night while being a generally terrible basketball player.

    Scoring and playing basketball are two different things.

  6. #36
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    I'm not sure what track record you're talking about.

    Maybe the one that has him at the lowest playoffs winning percentage out of ANY player over the last 20 years.

    25 points per game is always nice to look at on the stat sheet, but the reality is not so clear. It's possible to be able to drop 25 every night while being a generally terrible basketball player.

    Scoring and playing basketball are two different things.
    Nah you're right.

    Three max contrats, we should just trade two of them after 66 games and no real off-season to build around a guy with 8 weeks experience.

    Give me a break.

  7. #37
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    You're right.

    We should rebuild for 3 years to give up on it after 1 lockout-shortened year to build around a guy who has played 8 weeks in the NBA.

    Short-sightedness for the win.
    I would be more inclined to agree with you on this if we were having this conversation last year. But the reality is that we've had 2 playoffs with this team, we're 1-8 over those games, and lockout or not it's still a 66 game season.

    This team has been together for a chunk of time that allows us to start making some good observations.

  8. #38
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    I would be more inclined to agree with you on this if we were having this conversation last year. But the reality is that we've had 2 playoffs with this team, we're 1-8 over those games, and lockout or not it's still a 66 game season.

    This team has been together for a chunk of time that allows us to start making some good observations.
    Yep.

    You're right.

    Let's trade two of our three max contracts and venture into the complete unknown with a guy who has played 8 weeks of NBA basketball and a second round pick who took a solid three steps backwards this season.

    This is ****ing idiotic. I'm done with this conversation. It's beyond idiotic and pointless if you actually believe this moronic nonsense.

  9. #39
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Nah you're right.

    Three max contrats, we should just trade two of them after 66 games and no real off-season to build around a guy with 8 weeks experience.

    Give me a break.
    To build around is not necessarily to say he is D Rose. But he is an above average player at the most important position in hoops and always improving. That's something you build with, if not around. It's a huge piece of the puzzle while scorers are a dime a dozen.

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    To build around is not necessarily to say he is D Rose. But he is an above average player at the most important position in hoops and always improving. That's something you build with, if not around. It's a huge piece of the puzzle while scorers are a dime a dozen.
    How do you know he is always improving?

    He has had 8 weeks of NBA basketball.

    You have no frame of reference, and are now just making stuff up.

  11. #41
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    How do you know he is always improving?

    He has had 8 weeks of NBA basketball.

    You have no frame of reference, and are now just making stuff up.
    I see what you're saying. He has not been around for a long time.

    I am saying he is improving because that's what he has done all his career. He works on his game constantly and that's a big reason why he is in this situation. That's what I'm basing it on, not making stuff up.

    I don't think it's some crazy gamble to say that he will play at a high level for a long time.

  12. #42
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    I see what you're saying. He has not been around for a long time.

    I am saying he is improving because that's what he has done all his career. He works on his game constantly and that's a big reason why he is in this situation. That's what I'm basing it on, not making stuff up.

    I don't think it's some crazy gamble to say that he will play at a high level for a long time.
    How do you know that?

    All career?!?! REALLY? All 8 weeks of relevancy that he's had? How do you know he's going to get better and improve from where he's at right now? You don't.

    But you're prob. right. We should prob. dump 2 of our 3 max contracts for a guy with 8 weeks of NBA Experience and a second round pick who took 3 steps backwards.

  13. #43
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    How do you know that?

    All career?!?! REALLY? All 8 weeks of relevancy that he's had? How do you know he's going to get better and improve from where he's at right now? You don't.

    But you're prob. right. We should prob. dump 2 of our 3 max contracts for a guy with 8 weeks of NBA Experience and a second round pick who took 3 steps backwards.
    You wouldn't be dumping them in the water. The goal is to bring back better fitting pieces.

    How much doubt is there in your mind about Lin being our long-term solution at the Point?

    All career, yea, from Harvard to Golden State to New York. His history is a story of fight and determination. We saw what he did last summer with the training, how much work he put into becoming a physically stronger player.

    I can't think of a single report of Carmelo doing anything significant on his game or his body, ever.

    If Melo came in lean and constantly played with effort, I'd say keep him, we can improve. But the guy is a looffa.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    How do you know that?

    All career?!?! REALLY? All 8 weeks of relevancy that he's had? How do you know he's going to get better and improve from where he's at right now? You don't.

    But you're prob. right. We should prob. dump 2 of our 3 max contracts for a guy with 8 weeks of NBA Experience and a second round pick who took 3 steps backwards.
    Black i don't know why your even responding to this guy.

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    You wouldn't be dumping them in the water. The goal is to bring back better fitting pieces.

    How much doubt is there in your mind about Lin being our long-term solution at the Point?

    All career, yea, from Harvard to Golden State to New York. His history is a story of fight and determination. We saw what he did last summer with the training, how much work he put into becoming a physically stronger player.

    I can't think of a single report of Carmelo doing anything significant on his game or his body, ever.
    How do you know Lin hasn't been the same player all throughout his career, he just got a chance for minutes during that 8-week run? You don't. So you don't know that he's been improving. You are assuming he has because that's what the NY Tabloids say. But there's no evidence to show he improved markedly from when he was in Harvard to when he got to the NBA because the body of work isn't there. You don't have a control sample to compare it to, any samples of his old work are too small a sample size, even smaller than his meager run in the NBA so far.

    How much doubt in my mind that Lin is the long-term solution at point? Depends on the other guys on the roster. If I'm counting on him to be the piece we build around - there's plenty of doubt. He's probably a 14-7 player, who couldn't handle a full court press (I guess that never came up in his extensive workout sessions during his career). If I'm counting on him to be a facilitator I think he could be fine.

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