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Thread: Carmelo and Amar'e Can Work

  1. #16
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cuckoo
    (a trade is generally benefitial to both teams
    Not with Dolan as your owner. Then you'll end up with Melo.

  2. #17
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    I'm sick of hearing that these 2 Elite players cant work, it can work and here's why

    Last Year together they averaged

    Anthony- 26.3ppg and 6rpg(25 and 10 in the playoffs)
    Stoudemire- 23.5ppg and 8rpg(injured most of series)

    We had 2 stars who dominated offensively with Billups as a consistent 3rd option but we lacked interior defense, perimeter defense, consistent 3 point shooter, consistent 6th man and consistent coaching

    Anthony/Stoudemire/Billups

    Jeffries/Turiaf/Fields/Walker/Williams/Douglas

    That team was horribly constructed with no true identity and ability to contend because we lacked depth

    Chauncey Billups was the perfect point guard because he could get both Stoudemire and Anthony involved as well create for others, instead of just throwing the ball into Melo for an ISO, he directed the players where to go on the floor to create the right spacing for Melo to operate. When it was time to run the pick n roll with STAT, he directed Melo to the correct spot so when STAT rolled if Melo's guy helped he could get an open 3 which is why Melo shot 42% from 3, he was benefiting from STAT tearing teams up in the middle as well as STAT's FG% going up because Melo being there made teams double STAT less and Melo more

    The Knicks problems last year lied within the role players, no Shumpert, no Chandler, no Novak, no Smith, no Harrellson

    if the team was constructed this way

    Billups/Lin/Douglas
    Shumpert/Smith
    Anthony/Novak/Fields
    Stoudemire/Jeffries
    Chandler/Harrellson/Jordan

    more complete team, a true leader on offense in Billups and on defense in Chandler, 2 legit go to scorers in STAT and Melo with Billups setting up for both, a great perimeter defender in Shumpert, Jeffries a very versatile defender, Harrellson is a solid rebounder and can hit the jump shot, Fields thrives on the 2nd unit led by Lin/STAT/Novak, Novak is good for 2 3's a game and JR Smith is instant offense off the bench

    This year from the start we lacked a PG who can make it work for both, Billups did but the Knicks lost because we lacked role players around our main guys. If we decline Billups option he still gets 4mil, we sign Chandler for the same deal, we re-sign Billups who has bird rights, still draft Shumpert and Harrellson, bring over Jordan, pick up Lin and Novak, fire D'Antoni anyway and add Woodson from the start then we are a more complete team with leaders on and off the court.

    At the end of the day we need a point guard like Billups who changed Melo's whole game and made him a better team player, he's also a great leader who took over the locker room from jump street

    Who can fill that void I'm not sure I'd love to make a play for one of these guys(in particular order)

    Stephen Curry
    Eric Maynor
    Deron Williams
    Steve Nash

    all guys I feel can provide that true PG, versatile feel for our team. The one I really like is Eric Maynor, he's rotting behind Westbrook, well he's been hurt but nonetheless Westbrook got benched 1 game for Maynor who is more of a true PG his Ast/To ratio is 3-1 which is phenomenal and he has great size, strength and quickness and he demands the ball and controls pace

    so there you have it, it took me a while to analyze why they both had great numbers together last year and what was the problem this year and thats it a true leader at Point Guard

    so stop with the trade STAT, trade Melo, STAT and Melo are over paid and over hyped because every NBA player is over paid and over hyped if you wanna get technical.

    if you wanna figure out a solution to this team find a point guard who can do what Chauncey Billups does and the Knicks will be in great shape to contend going forward
    Good read, and i think curry can be that type of player, he gets my vote because he can also shoot the lights out.

  3. #18
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    88. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

    There is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:
    • The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
    • The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
    • The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]).
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Nothing wrong with wishing, though its not Xmas. Even you can get Curry, he will be a FA next year!

  4. #19
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cuckoo
    88. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

    There is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:
    • The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
    • The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
    • The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]).
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Nothing wrong with wishing, though its not Xmas. Even you can get Curry, he will be a FA next year!
    we'd be able to give him a contract come next summer, no big deal since he'd be restricted and we'd just match it

  5. #20
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    Of course, they can work together. They did that during one win against Miami. The question is whether they always will.
    Originally Posted by CA7
    I wish you read what I wrote before you replied, I just like in depth answers rather than this open-ended responses which ruin conversation

    but yeah they can and will we just need that missing piece

    CA7....u didnt have to cut the legs off of someone who agreed with u to a point.
    Stat & Melo couldve won 65% of the Knicks games if the offense were controlled by the PG and coach decision making.

    The 2011-12 season made it clear on what it will take to have Stat & Melo co-exist consistently in a rotation with floor-leader guards "Lin-Sanity and ??? ......either PG-Billups, or PG-Rose, or PG-Rondo, or PG-Rubio, or maybe PG-Nash (if Nash body could go 70 regular season games in the Eastern Conference which have twice the amount of contact than the western conference).

    All the other NBA PG are either to weak to stand-up to Carmelo Anthony offensive-Ego, or dont have the body to go 70 games, plus a full postseason.

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    CA7....u didnt have to cut the legs off of someone who agreed with u to a point.
    Stat & Melo couldve won 65% of the Knicks games if the offense were controlled by the PG and coach decision making.

    The 2011-12 season made it clear on what it will take to have Stat & Melo co-exist consistently in a rotation with floor-leader guards "Lin-Sanity and ??? ......either PG-Billups, or PG-Rose, or PG-Rondo, or PG-Rubio, or maybe PG-Nash (if Nash body could go 70 regular season games in the Eastern Conference which have twice the amount of contact than the western conference).

    All the other NBA PG are either to weak to stand-up to Carmelo Anthony offensive-Ego, or dont have the body to go 70 games, plus a full postseason.
    thats part of maturing as a player, the fact is Billups got Melo to play to the bets of his ability and Melo added that and led the Nuggets to a WCF where they were 2 inbound passes away from winning it and going to the Finals.

    we need a veteran, Jeremy is not that but can be I dont know what he'll improve on next year, maybe Melo decides to just follow his lead on the court but when you got 2 potent scorers and other guys who need the ball you as the point guard have to understand how to incorporate everyone at the same time while still focusing on your best players.

    Is Lin over hyped- we all agree yes, no doubt

    Can he be the point guard to lead our team on the court- we dont know but from my point of view NO

    why?- he over dribbles, takes bad shots, there's times he comes down, no passes and goes one on one, no one says anything. On fast breaks he'll miss Melo who can get an easy dunk to get rhythm going but no he looks him off and shoots it while other times finding Fields, Chandler, Novak etc.... A point guards last option should be to shoot. Also can he handle non-stop pressure, what if the Heat put LeBron on him, Rose couldn't do **** with LBJ defending him what do you think Lin can do, we dont know which is my point but if we can find a vet to play in front of him so he can learn from someone then we have something going.

    if you think Melo has an offensive-ego then you're over-analyzing everything about him. Melo likes to pass, he's always reading the floor, hell if we had a consistent knock down 3-point shooter who teams couldn't just deny the ball too he'd average 4-5 assists per game. The point is I've never heard Martin, Billups, Smith, Nene, Afflalo, Camby, Birdman, Lawson, Carter, Balkman, Klieza, Jones or Miller complain about Melo's game. George Karl bitched about his defense I understand that but you, like the media, are doing nothing but blaming the best player which is natural. Nonetheless we need a point guard who both STAT and Melo can thrive off of and the jury is still out on Jeremy Lin and THATS A FACT

  7. #22
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Carmelo & Stoudemire can work if we sign Steve Nash.

    Still, I have a funny feeling Amar'e gets dealth this Summer. Look for something to happen with LAKERS (Pau Gasol) straight up, or perhaps a 4-team deal w/ HOU-ORL getting in the mix.

    Knicks be better off with Kevin Martin & something else (maybe Scola, or maybe we flip Luis for a SF?

    Nash
    Martin

    Carmelo
    Chandler

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Carmelo & Stoudemire can work if we sign Steve Nash.

    Still, I have a funny feeling Amar'e gets dealth this Summer. Look for something to happen with LAKERS (Pau Gasol) straight up, or perhaps a 4-team deal w/ HOU-ORL getting in the mix.

    Knicks be better off with Kevin Martin & something else (maybe Scola, or maybe we flip Luis for a SF?

    Nash
    Martin

    Carmelo
    Chandler
    I seen your idea, I really think STAT has proven to be a "system player" but nonetheless getting that mixture of Nash and Billups is ideal for Melo and STAT to both excel

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    I seen your idea, I really think STAT has proven to be a "system player" but nonetheless getting that mixture of Nash and Billups is ideal for Melo and STAT to both excel

    I think Amar'e will be fine actually. Like Jeter this season... Stoudemire had a bad back, the lock out prevented him from getting proper treatment, he put on 15 pounds and never really got into shape. Then his brother died. And since then he never found a groove.

    He'll get to work this Summer and come back strong.

    The worry is health, of course. 2 years now where we he missed playoff games. Last year, he was doing fancy dunks during warmups and twisted back. This time he punched glass. Both were foolish injuries.

    Amar'e has to work on post moves & attacking the glass. I don't care abnout his putrid defense, but he must be a force on offense.

    I do think they'll be a small window to move him, if LAK want to switch something up and get rid of Gasol.

    Wouldn't Kobe-Amar'e fit better, & same with Melo-Gasol? Might ORL take STAT on if they trade Howard to LA... get Bynum and the hometown STAT? Knicks need guards, & HOU could deal MArtin... plus they have 2 PGs (Lowry & Dragic).

    Then there's always CHA. Might we get Jordan to do something stupid?

    Anyway... Knicks have to sign Steve Nash, even if it means they lose LIN.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    I think Amar'e will be fine actually. Like Jeter this season... Stoudemire had a bad back, the lock out prevented him from getting proper treatment, he put on 15 pounds and never really got into shape. Then his brother died. And since then he never found a groove.

    He'll get to work this Summer and come back strong.

    The worry is health, of course. 2 years now where we he missed playoff games. Last year, he was doing fancy dunks during warmups and twisted back. This time he punched glass. Both were foolish injuries.

    Amar'e has to work on post moves & attacking the glass. I don't care abnout his putrid defense, but he must be a force on offense.

    I do think they'll be a small window to move him, if LAK want to switch something up and get rid of Gasol.

    Wouldn't Kobe-Amar'e fit better, & same with Melo-Gasol? Might ORL take STAT on if they trade Howard to LA... get Bynum and the hometown STAT? Knicks need guards, & HOU could deal MArtin... plus they have 2 PGs (Lowry & Dragic).

    Then there's always CHA. Might we get Jordan to do something stupid?

    Anyway... Knicks have to sign Steve Nash, even if it means they lose LIN.
    yeah I could see us, LAL and ORL all looking to swap guys with each other just to get a different feeling around each ogranization

  11. #26
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    I don't understand why you guys can't realize Lin won't be moved, whether you like it or not. Secondly, he can run the offense. he has the balls to not pass the ball to melo and he is also a pick and roll guard. Switching around the players on the team and making trades is not the solution, and we all should know that.. How can you make judgments on a point guard that you YOURSELF claim is unproven..

    The real truth is that the knicks can reach their full potential with a healthy team and a much improved coaching stratagem. It's time for the knicks to STOP making changes(we've seen that it ultimately messed us up over the course of the season) and to settle down and create chemistry.
    Unfortunately, you guys believe that players have to be traded for us to be better, the knicks finally have some chemistry and togetherness, so why create the extra drama and confusion caused by the entry of a new player..

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    Originally Posted by elcol
    I don't understand why you guys can't realize Lin won't be moved, whether you like it or not. Secondly, he can run the offense. he has the balls to not pass the ball to melo and he is also a pick and roll guard. Switching around the players on the team and making trades is not the solution, and we all should know that.. How can you make judgments on a point guard that you YOURSELF claim is unproven..

    The real truth is that the knicks can reach their full potential with a healthy team and a much improved coaching stratagem. It's time for the knicks to STOP making changes(we've seen that it ultimately messed us up over the course of the season) and to settle down and create chemistry.
    Unfortunately, you guys believe that players have to be traded for us to be better, the knicks finally have some chemistry and togetherness, so why create the extra drama and confusion caused by the entry of a new player..

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by elcol
    I don't understand why you guys can't realize Lin won't be moved, whether you like it or not. Secondly, he can run the offense. he has the balls to not pass the ball to melo and he is also a pick and roll guard. Switching around the players on the team and making trades is not the solution, and we all should know that.. How can you make judgments on a point guard that you YOURSELF claim is unproven..

    The real truth is that the knicks can reach their full potential with a healthy team and a much improved coaching stratagem. It's time for the knicks to STOP making changes(we've seen that it ultimately messed us up over the course of the season) and to settle down and create chemistry.
    Unfortunately, you guys believe that players have to be traded for us to be better, the knicks finally have some chemistry and togetherness, so why create the extra drama and confusion caused by the entry of a new player..
    That right there doesn't sit well with most, during game we counted numerous times he looked off Melo, what did that lead to Melo rushing a shot the next time he go the ball.

    Lin needs to understand that his role, is to set up the O, get everyone the ball in the right spots and get our super stars easy buckets.

    Lin was the focal point of the offense during "Linsanity" he also got all the credit and honestly that **** went to his head, even during games when we had everybody he was still going one on one toooooooooooo much, which is why his TO's were so high. He has to understand that one we have 3 not selfish but stone cold scores on the team(STAT, Melo and JR) so his role should not be what it was during our run, he needs to be Rondo like get STAT some easy dunks and lay-ups and jump shots, get JR involved in transition and easy open jumpers, get the floor spread for Melo's iso, hit Melo on the break for an easy dunk or lay up, not go one on one with my man and try to score and if it isn't there then pass. I mean if you got it, take it but dont force, Lin forces it a lot, mainly because he's young which is why we need a vet who understands what needs to be done

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    That right there doesn't sit well with most, during game we counted numerous times he looked off Melo, what did that lead to Melo rushing a shot the next time he go the ball.

    Lin needs to understand that his role, is to set up the O, get everyone the ball in the right spots and get our super stars easy buckets.

    Lin was the focal point of the offense during "Linsanity" he also got all the credit and honestly that **** went to his head, even during games when we had everybody he was still going one on one toooooooooooo much, which is why his TO's were so high. He has to understand that one we have 3 not selfish but stone cold scores on the team(STAT, Melo and JR) so his role should not be what it was during our run, he needs to be Rondo like get STAT some easy dunks and lay-ups and jump shots, get JR involved in transition and easy open jumpers, get the floor spread for Melo's iso, hit Melo on the break for an easy dunk or lay up, not go one on one with my man and try to score and if it isn't there then pass. I mean if you got it, take it but dont force, Lin forces it a lot, mainly because he's young which is why we need a vet who understands what needs to be done
    During the period he was playing point with melo there Lin was not playing badly at all, he averaged high assists also. Secondly, him penetrating was the knicks only offensive option. the only thing melo was was STONE COLD. JR smith is not a stone cold scorer nor is he a player that plays off of a point guard. he is a chucker who creates his own shot. How can u believe that Lin does not understand that he isn't the focal point of the offense with amare and melo, of course he realizes that.

    You are saying that Lin forced it alot and turned it over alot. but also he was playing with a cold melo and controlling the ball for the majority of most games. He forced because the rest of the team is a bunch of scrubs(think back to Linsanity: jeffries, novak, harrelson, shump, bibby, harrelson, fields etc:not an NBA caliber team by themselves.

    You can say that I am just following the hype and I'm on Lin's dick but unlike many players in the NBA, you can clearly see that he is a hungry player with a winners mentality

    Trading Lin or really most other players on the team is NOT the solution

  15. #30
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    He has to understand that one we have 3 not selfish but stone cold scores on the team(STAT, Melo and JR)
    That is blasphemy. Did you watch the playoffs at all or do you live in a dream world in which JR didn't hoist up every shot he could potentially take?

    Originally Posted by CA7
    get the floor spread for Melo's iso,
    How is that supposed to happen? Melo usually starts his isos at the elbow with a half-decent defense proper spacing is impossible from there.


    Originally Posted by CA7
    hit Melo on the break for an easy dunk or lay up,
    Lay-up. Not dunk. At best. Expect Melo's ass to be even fatter next year. He has got his contract so we can be glad if it will be possible to slip a newspaper under his feet when he is taking a jump shot. Giving him an open lay-up in the open court is difficult enough already as even Eric Dampier would be back on defense before Melo gets into gear. Oh wait, maybe we can make him wait for the ball mid-court to give him a head start. He is quick, not fast. Otherwise iso and bullying his way to the basket or taking the contested jump shot is what we are going to get.

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