When Mike D'Antoni quit (or was forced to resign) he actually left some residual effects behind, two of which are Jeremy Lin and Amare stoudemire.
STAT if you recall was a consolation prize, acquired during the summer free agent bonanza. In almost close particular order, teams had James, Wade, Bosh, STAT, Boozer, and Johnson on their radars. Although NY lost out on the first three they still had impetus to spend their long-awaited cap monies on someone, and STAT was a perfect fit for Mike's system.
Lin emerged just just as the ship scraped against an iceberg and was taking on water. Luckily D'Antoni had no "star" players to highlight during Lin's start thus leaving the little known Harvard Guard to shine on the big stage. It was important to note that Lin would need to learn how to coexist with two alpha-males healing up. When they did return, although Lin's role was reduced, there was some success. But who Lin was and what he meant was a tale of two teams. One needed him to lead, score, finish, flourish... the other needed him to facilitate and PLAY DEFENSE.
With D'Antoni gone, the roles of Lin and STAT have to be re-examined. We aren't in "save us now mode". We aren't in please STAT, sign here to justify our cap maneuvers mode.
We are in, we have a new, defensive minded, fundamentally sound coach mode. And we have the DPOY and a quasi-knock-down-shooter. (I would add Shump but until I see him better, he doesn't exist for trade purposes) Those two provide corner stones for a winning franchise while rendering Stat and Lin ancillary parts- more important to the old regime than the new.
Woody (if signed) should be allowed the same room for building and improvement as his predecessor, and these two are a) defensive liabilities (on a championship level contender) & b) injury prone (backs and knees equal no bueno) thus should be looked at as expendable under Woody. Add Laundry Folds in there as well.
Let's not fool ourselves on Lin or Stat, they are what they are and it is improtant to really gauge their value. Both show promise when at peak performance.
The only way to beat the Heat (which is what I assume we should be doing) is to fight fire with fire. Top level players MUST agree to structure their deals to maximize the roster. Of course STAT can no longer do this.
I propose going all "Lin", as in trade Lin if available. I'm interested incontention NOT entertainment. I say there are about 3 available players who could be paired with Melo to beat the Heat.
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Dwight Howard
(No need to consider players like Durant or Kobe or anyone else not assumed to be leaving)
This means that if and only if the KNICKS can trade/sign and trade with an organization to pair Melo with one of the above, clear out some room for fillers, maybe draft picks...
We will continue to be fodder.
THE FORMULA IS SIMPLE YET COMPLEX.
1. A Knock-down-shooter (ala Kobe, Dirk, etc...)
2. A solid 1&5 (or 4) combination (Kidd/Chandler, Fisher/Bynum, Rondo/Garnot, Parker/Duncan, Shaq/Wade [I know Wade is a 2], etc...)
3. A solid bench
Note: We haven't had a star like Melo since the early 80's. Our last true star (A-level) during their prime was P. Ewing. We're not used to having a star wing player. We think that Lin can handle this but that's wishful thinking.
So, our only hope is to trade STAT. And to trade STAT we have to add any or all of: TC, Lin, TD, or Folds to entice such a trade.
It sounds reactionary (yet I'm calm), far-fetched, and almost impossible. The greater fool theory says its possible.
Pair any and all of STAT and whoever to get Woody and Melo a shot to beat the Heat by pairing him with an A-level star. I know, it sounds ridiculous at this point, but remember STAT and Lin shined within the D'Antoni system (the one with no defense). Melo shined under Woody coaching.
Any and everything MUST be done to free up cap room and add another legit star minus the question marks. Short of Durant, Rose, or a Rondo (who as of now are NOT available)
If we don't complete this we will be stuck standing without a chair. We made sacrifices that resulted in moves inspired by D'Antoni. Those moves have holes and inconsistencies. These three being available might be our only way to make up for mistakes...
DO YOU (WE) HAVE THE BALLS TO TRY THIS?
Last edited by Red; May 14, 2012 at 16:13.
no body...is taking amar'e n his 20m non-insurable contract.. he is here to stay, so woodson or the next coach better figure out how to best use him/melo/chandler... ladies and gentlemen... your ny knicks for the next 3 years...
What did this guy just say about posting trade scenarios in the forum?
Come on, man.
I'd like to hold on to Lin a bit longer just for potential's sake. Amare can go now for all I care. He'll never earn his 20m/yr salary and after 10+ years in the league he still has a lot to learn about the PF position. I'd also throw in Folds and TD in any trade scenerio.
My fault, I didn't read the trade scenario thread. Actually though this isn't a trade scenario because I have no idea who could or would want STAT.
My point was that IF we don't want to seem bias, then we must allow Woody (if signed) the same latitude we allowed D'Antoni.
That said, I don't see Lin or STAT as "Woody players". Remember the three years past when we had to consider who "fit" into D'Antoni's system and who didn't? Well we now have to figure who fits in Woody's system and who doesn't.
If we take that approach, then we can only offer what is expendable and we must get certain types in return, ala D'Antoni.
Those types are defensive players. The only major defensive players I see possibly available are:
3. D WIll
4. Bynum (possibly) (added him late)
and the only pieces we have that I consider expendable are STAT, LIN, FOLDS, and TD. Meaning we can't count on having Lin nor should we.
That said, there is someone who would take STAT IF you couple that with Lin or Chandler.
Are you telling me a team like the Clippers won't explore that sign and trade IF they know CP3 won't resign?
Or an Orlando or Laker team. What else is better? Sure they'd explore the Bynum and Gasol for D12, but we'd have to be in it to win it.
The point i am making is are we even in play? Are we willing to sacrifice Lin or Chandler to trade STAT in order to build a team to Woody's liking? If not then I see us up against mediocrity for years like the past
or just a bit biased, being that we did all we could to appease D'Antoni.
I forget CP3 is a free agent in 2013, I'd love to try and get Paul, Melo and Chandler as our big 3, really think we should have traded STAT for CP3 when we had the chance
Melo respects CP3 and will realize Paul is the best player on the team and that he can make Melo that much better, also Shumpert and Paul would be a deadly 1-2 punch with Chandler anchoring the D
As much as i'm happy that we are out of the NBA doghouse, im pretty unhappy with once again, the Knicks looking to quick fix everything and this team is so fundamentally flawed.
We really should have either traded for CP3 instead of Melo or offered STAT for CP3 this offseason.
CP3/Melo/Chandler is much better than the team we currently have.
Our best option is to try go after D-Will this offseason, chances are he wont re-sign in Brooklyn and has already said previously he would sign an extension here. If Williams makes it clear he wont re-sign with the Nets then we should do a sign & trade for Lin so that they at least get something in return and Lin is still in a big market making them millions in the process and creating a great city rivalry narrative.
But we would also need to dump STAT's contract for anything in the process, even some Charlotte junk, a core of D-Will/Shump/Melo/Chandler is a great building block. I think we have a trade exception? I'd even dump Stat for a bunch of picks, even if only gets us some 2nd rounders.
Knicks- Chris Paul
Rockets- Amar'e Stoudemire
Hornets- Goran Dragic, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, 2012 Knicks and Rockets 1st Round picks
similar to the 1st deal they had with the Lakers
with the full MLE work with- Lamar Odom maybe, Ryan Anderson maybe or anyone versatile enough who can rebound and stretch the floor
remember they did this for Gasol, STAT had way more value prior to the start of the season than Gasol did
Last edited by CA7; May 14, 2012 at 21:47.
The trade thread onslaught will never end....
Image hotlinked from a malware website // removed
I don't see CP3 being available.
Originally Posted by Knicksin60
Your article was good until you partially blamed Lin for our misery.
He's not even played half a season, so we really shouldn't jump the gun in his case.
I think the non-existing chemistry in our frontcourt is probably the bigget issue. Chandler AND Amar'e just doesn't work and when Melo enters the mix too...it's a first round team forever.
It would probably take a Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Jason Kidd in his prime to get that frontcourt working. None of them is available though.
And Melo needs to score more effectively. 30 points on 30 shots ain't gonna cut it. It's just great to watch Kevin Durant score. Purest scorer in the league.
That whole OKC team is just a joy to watch, a shame we can't trade our roster for theirs.