My answer to Linsanity in 3 words; sign and trade!

nyk_nyk

nyk_nyk

All Star
Linsanity is definitely bigger than Jeremy Lin, the player. You pay for both and there's no way around it.

Personally, I think Curry is better than Lin but not by a whole lot (based on what i've seen so far).

I wouldn't trade Lin right now. We can all agree that he has potential and you have to explore that. I understand the OP's concern about over-paying but he's going to get his $5 mil (max) unless he agrees to take less, which his agent won't allow him to do.

Let's just hope the word "trade" in the CBA is ruled to also players picked up after being waved.
 
K

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Why has this thread last even this long?

The three words used should have been......

Can Not Happen.


Lin cannot be signed and traded per CBA rules.
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
knickscity said:
Why has this thread last even this long?

The three words used should have been......

Can Not Happen.


Lin cannot be signed and traded per CBA rules.
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Only if he signs an offer sheet first

but then we'd have to max him out so 5mil the 1st year which means we'd be capped per CBA rules

but I digress
 
N

NYNYK

Benchwarmer
I really hate these type of threads. We've had one lockout shortened season hampered by injuries and a mid season coaching change and people are already calling to make changes left and right with the team. How about we pass our judgement till we actually have a normal season?

I hate the Celtics but if there's one thing I respect about them it's the fact that they've been able to keep their core group of players together so they can learn each other's strengths/weaknesses and develop team chemistry. Rondo would not be the PG he is if the Boston front office signed, traded, and let go of players left and right.

Keep as many of our guys as we can and our coach and let them work it out. In my opinion, the only changes to consider right now should be based off injuries.
 
LINvincible

LINvincible

Benchwarmer
How much they we paid Barron Davis again for this past season's service?

Let's face it. The knicks will never win a championship with Melo. With Lin, at least the game is fun to watch.
 
F

fender0577

Rotation player
LINvincible said:
How much they we paid Barron Davis again for this past season's service?

Let's face it. The knicks will never win a championship with Melo. With Lin, at least the game is fun to watch.
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First off, your name says it all.Second, you think Lin is a championship level PG?You would think after seeing, MARO CHALMERS, lock him down, you'd think some of ya'll would snap out of it.Stop it with all this "we'll never win with melo" crap.News flash Lin played 3 good weeks of basketball, and we haven't won anything with Lin either.
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
We can win with Melo and Lin our team full health is a championship contender stop yall bitchin about us losing in the playoffs we had no one
 
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K

knickerlocker

Rookie
CA7 said:
Only if he signs an offer sheet first

but then we'd have to max him out so 5mil the 1st year which means we'd be capped per CBA rules

but I digress
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No, that's incorrect. We cannot sign-and-trade Lin even if we don't match a competing offer sheet. You're not allowed to do a sign-and-trade contract using MLE. Basically, we're not allowed to Sign-and-Trade Lin unless: 1) We don't use any part of the MLE on him 2) We don't match a competing offer That seems unlikely, considering we have no money to pay him without the MLE, since all our money is locked up in Melo, Stoudemire, and Chandler. We're not allowed to sign-and-trade him. We either match whatever large contract he gets with another team, or let him walk for nothing. Can't sign-and-trade him or get anything back. Gotta let him walk for nothing if we don't match whatever crazy offer he might get from another team. He's a free agent. The entire premise of this thread is wrong. We can't sign-and-trade him under this CBA with our current cap situation.
 
R

rogeryy

Benchwarmer
knickerlocker said:
No, that's incorrect. We cannot sign-and-trade Lin even if we don't match a competing offer sheet. You're not allowed to do a sign-and-trade contract using MLE. Basically, we're not allowed to Sign-and-Trade Lin unless: 1) We don't use any part of the MLE on him 2) We don't match a competing offer That seems unlikely, considering we have no money to pay him without the MLE, since all our money is locked up in Melo, Stoudemire, and Chandler. We're not allowed to sign-and-trade him. We either match whatever large contract he gets with another team, or let him walk for nothing. Can't sign-and-trade him or get anything back. Gotta let him walk for nothing if we don't match whatever crazy offer he might get from another team. He's a free agent. The entire premise of this thread is wrong. We can't sign-and-trade him under this CBA with our current cap situation.
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That I couldn't agree more. :)
Welcome to this board!
(You're not someone who has trouble with your old account right?)
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
knickerlocker said:
No, that's incorrect. We cannot sign-and-trade Lin even if we don't match a competing offer sheet. You're not allowed to do a sign-and-trade contract using MLE. Basically, we're not allowed to Sign-and-Trade Lin unless: 1) We don't use any part of the MLE on him 2) We don't match a competing offer That seems unlikely, considering we have no money to pay him without the MLE, since all our money is locked up in Melo, Stoudemire, and Chandler. We're not allowed to sign-and-trade him. We either match whatever large contract he gets with another team, or let him walk for nothing. Can't sign-and-trade him or get anything back. Gotta let him walk for nothing if we don't match whatever crazy offer he might get from another team. He's a free agent. The entire premise of this thread is wrong. We can't sign-and-trade him under this CBA with our current cap situation.
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if we get the early bird rights for Lin then we can sign and trade him if he's really not interested in returning
 
K

knickerlocker

Rookie
CA7 said:
if we get the early bird rights for Lin then we can sign and trade him if he's really not interested in returning
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A sign-and-trade contract requires his agreement. Why would he agree to this instead of signing directly with the new team? This new CBA removed most of the reasons for doing so for the player that existed in the old CBA. They rewrote the rules to discourage sign-and-trades. So even if we were able to use Early Bird Rights to do a sign-and-trade, that would still be a smaller contract that he could get by signing directly with the new team for a backloaded contract. He can get a large backloaded contract with a team with cap space by signing directly. He can't get a large backloaded contract if he did a sign-and-trade with the Knicks using Early Bird Rights due to our lack of cap space. Also, from the Knicks perspective, we would be subject to the Base Year Compensation rule, so that we'd get less value back in a Sign-and-Trade using Early Bird rights to give him a raise. In the old CBA, the players could get bird rights earlier or get a larger Bird Contract via Sign-and-trade. That's disallowed in the new CBA. So the players have no reason to do it. He would be better off signing directly with the new team, for a larger backloaded contract if they have free cap space. Even if we do win the arbitration and get Early Bird Rights, a sign-and-trade is still not happening. Jeremy Lin (or any other free agent the Knicks have) would be foolish to agree to a sign-and-trade contract and when they can get a larger non-S&T contract elsewhere. And it's not like we can force him to accept a S&T contract. Nope, we either match whatever crazy contract he gets elsewhere, or we let him walk for nothing. No sign-and-trade with Jeremy Lin. Like I said, the premise of this whole thread is wrong. The OP obviously didn't read the new CBA rules.
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
knickerlocker said:
A sign-and-trade contract requires his agreement. Why would he agree to this instead of signing directly with the new team? This new CBA removed most of the reasons for doing so for the player that existed in the old CBA. They rewrote the rules to discourage sign-and-trades. So even if we were able to use Early Bird Rights to do a sign-and-trade, that would still be a smaller contract that he could get by signing directly with the new team for a backloaded contract. He can get a large backloaded contract with a team with cap space by signing directly. He can't get a large backloaded contract if he did a sign-and-trade with the Knicks using Early Bird Rights due to our lack of cap space. Also, from the Knicks perspective, we would be subject to the Base Year Compensation rule, so that we'd get less value back in a Sign-and-Trade using Early Bird rights to give him a raise. In the old CBA, the players could get bird rights earlier or get a larger Bird Contract via Sign-and-trade. That's disallowed in the new CBA. So the players have no reason to do it. He would be better off signing directly with the new team, for a larger backloaded contract if they have free cap space. Even if we do win the arbitration and get Early Bird Rights, a sign-and-trade is still not happening. Jeremy Lin (or any other free agent the Knicks have) would be foolish to agree to a sign-and-trade contract and when they can get a larger non-S&T contract elsewhere. And it's not like we can force him to accept a S&T contract. Nope, we either match whatever crazy contract he gets elsewhere, or we let him walk for nothing. No sign-and-trade with Jeremy Lin. Like I said, the premise of this whole thread is wrong. The OP obviously didn't read the new CBA rules.
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What if its a sign and trade to a team with no cap room. Then he'd have to agree, say he wanted to go to the Lakers for example but they only have the mini MLE so they could sign him outright or Sign and Trade for him give up say MWP and a 1st Round draft pick for Lin and a filler then they could still use their Mini MLE

Sign and Trade is possible but unlikely
 
K

knickerlocker

Rookie
CA7 said:
What if its a sign and trade to a team with no cap room. Then he'd have to agree, say he wanted to go to the Lakers for example but they only have the mini MLE so they could sign him outright or Sign and Trade for him give up say MWP and a 1st Round draft pick for Lin and a filler then they could still use their Mini MLE

Sign and Trade is possible but unlikely
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Like I said, he can't get a large backloaded contract that way. CBA rules don't allow it.
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
knickerlocker said:
Like I said, he can't get a large backloaded contract that way. CBA rules don't allow it.
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which means he would have to take less to sign with a team of his choosing, like I said "unlikely" but he'll make all his money off the court anyway I doubt it would matter
 
tkrieger

tkrieger

Benchwarmer
CA7 said:
Curry- 17pts, 6ast, 4rebs, almost 2 steals, 47-44-90

Career Best per game stats
18.6 pts(2nd year)
5.9 ast(rookie year)
4.5 rebs(rookie year
1.9 steals(rookie year)
49% FG(this year)
45.% from 3(this year)
93.4% FT(2nd year)
2.5 TO's(this year)

I'll just take Lin's stats from his tenure in New York

14.6 pts, 6.2 ast, 3.1 rebs, 44-32-79 and 3.6 to's

Lets be real on this board and stop the bull ****
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This is why statistics mean nothing........ If you look at the Sixer game in Philly, Lin had horrible numbers through 3 quarters, but willed his team to a win. Same goes for the first game in Toronto and the game in Indy...... Lin makes plays that don't show up on the stat sheet. (i.e. drawing loose ball fouls, drawing offensive fouls by the opposition, blowing up opposing pick and rolls, etc.) Especially in the 4th quarter. (His 4th qtr. PER was second in the entire league this past season, only behind Chris Paul.) Especially at the defensive end of the floor....... Often forcing the 2nd and 3rd options by the opposing offense. (People who think his defense is at best "average" have not watched the games closely to realize his defense is near elite. The last game in Toronto, he shut out Jose Calderon, and drew illegal screen fouls to boot.)

In judging players based solely on how many *wins* he brings for the team, Jeremy Lin is amongst the elites, in my humble opinion. The diminished numbers under Woodson and highish turnovers notwithstanding.

My biggest concern with Lin is durability. Hopefully his knee injury is an exception, not the rule.
 
K

knickerlocker

Rookie
CA7 said:
which means he would have to take less to sign with a team of his choosing, like I said "unlikely" but he'll make all his money off the court anyway I doubt it would matter
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That's like saying he could take Vet. Min in a Sign-and-trade to go to another team and make his money off the court. Same reasoning, just taken to an extreme. I don't think any player or his agent would do that when they can have a large contract AND make lots of money off the court. It's not like he has to choose between a large backloaded salary or huge off the court endorsements. Yao Ming made tons of endorsement money playing out of Houston.

And if you're talking about things that are "possible" but "unlikely" you could do a sign-and-trade right now with Vet. Min. It's "possible" but "unlikely" Heck, it's technically "possible" but "unlikely" that we trade all of Melo/Stat/Chandler for second rounders. Why are we discussing this again?

This whole thread's premise is wrong. No idea why it's run this many pages. The OP says if Jeremy gets a large contract, we should sign-and-trade him instead of matching. That's just not happening under this CBA's rules.
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
knickerlocker said:
That's like saying he could take Vet. Min to go to another team and make his money off the court. Same reasoning, just taken to an extreme. I don't think any player or his agent would do that when they can have a large contract AND make lots of money off the court. It's not like he has to choose between a large backloaded salary or huge off the court endorsements. Yao Ming made tons of endorsement money playing out of Houston.

And if you're talking about things that are "possible" but "unlikely", you could do a sign-and-trade right now with Vet. Min. It's "possible" but "unlikely." Heck, it's technically "possible" but "unlikely" that we trade all of Melo/Stat/Chandler for second rounders. Why are we discussing this again?

This whole thread's premise is wrong. No idea why it's run this many pages. The OP says if Jeremy gets a large contract, we should sign-and-trade him instead of matching. That's just not happening under this CBA's rules.
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I understand the bolded part thats not my argument, point is sign and trade IS possible just not likely to happen
 
CA7

CA7

Scoring Champ
tkrieger said:
This is why statistics mean nothing........ If you look at the Sixer game in Philly, Lin had horrible numbers through 3 quarters, but willed his team to a win. Same goes for the first game in Toronto and the game in Indy...... Lin makes plays that don't show up on the stat sheet. (i.e. drawing loose ball fouls, drawing offensive fouls by the opposition, blowing up opposing pick and rolls, etc.) Especially in the 4th quarter. (His 4th qtr. PER was second in the entire league this past season, only behind Chris Paul.) Especially at the defensive end of the floor....... Often forcing the 2nd and 3rd options by the opposing offense. (People who think his defense is at best "average" have not watched the games closely to realize his defense is near elite. The last game in Toronto, he shut out Jose Calderon, and drew illegal screen fouls to boot.)

In judging players based solely on how many *wins* he brings for the team, Jeremy Lin is amongst the elites, in my humble opinion. The diminished numbers under Woodson and highish turnovers notwithstanding.

My biggest concern with Lin is durability. Hopefully his knee injury is an exception, not the rule.
Click to expand...

Lin got raped by Calderon, Shumpert shut him down helping Lin hit that game winner dont take that away from Shumpert

Statistics dont matter when comparing Lin to a player but they do when comparing STAT or Melo, fact is Curry is a better player we can all agree, Lin is not Elite because in order to be elite you gotta perform consistently year in and year out and in the playoffs.

Rose did it
Paul did it
Rondo did it
D.Williams did it
Westbrook did it
Parker did it
Nash did it

Lin is good we can all agree but not as good as people are making to be

I pray he doesn't flop next year because my hopes of getting an NBA championship rest on his ability to be a real point guard not a D'Antoni PG who needs the ball the entire game to put up his numbers.

I'm expecting 14 and 8 which should be god enough if he makes sure STAT is 20 and 10 and Melo is 26 and 8
 
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