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Thread: This Knicks Draft Season

  1. #31
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    If we stand pat at 48 (even if we move up slightly, say to the top portion of the 2nd round 30-40), Kim English continues to be my guy. I still think he's the best fit for us and when you're a win-now team like we are, you go for a need, esp. when picking all the way down in the 2nd round...Just my opinion... English is a 6'5"+ natural 2G that can really shoot the ball from the arc, plus he can handle it a little bit and he's a pesky defender. We need a bunch of different role players all up & down our rotation -- A sniper-type 2G is the one element I'm having trouble finding elsewhere on the cheap (Ryan Wittman can certainly shoot it but I look at him as more of a backup SF. Jamelle Horne same thing. I like Sylven Landesberg & Scotty Hopson for us too but those 2 aren't pure shooters like English). That's why I'd use the draft pick at 48 on that type of player. I already know we could find PGs, wings, a very promising center with skills and a few PFs that are as good if not better than anyone we could take at 48.

    Starting to give 6'8" SF/SG Hollis Thompson outta G-Town a real look now, though. That kid can shoot it too and at that size (good for a SF, excellent for a 2G), he's real intriguing. Pretty good in all other areas too -- good athlete, pretty good rebounder, etc. And his length could give the opposition problems when he's out defending on the perimeter. Was unhappy with his role on the Hoyas during his soph. season, declared for the draft last year before pulling out and going back to school -- went on to have a better junior yr. where he showed steady improvement. Any Big-East/G-Town fans out there that have a good feel for this kid? Is he a late bloomer that could make it in the NBA?
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 13, 2012 at 11:22.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    If we stand pat at 48 (even if we move up slightly, say to the top portion of the 2nd round 30-40), Kim English continues to be my guy. I still think he's the best fit for us and when you're a win-now team like we are, you go for a need, esp. when picking all the way down in the 2nd round...Just my opinion... English is a 6'5"+ natural 2G that can really shoot the ball from the arc, plus he can handle it a little bit and he's a pesky defender. We need a bunch of different role players all up & down our rotation -- A sniper-type 2G is the one element I'm having trouble finding elsewhere on the cheap (Ryan Wittman can certainly shoot it but I look at him as more of a backup SF. Jamelle Horne same thing. I like Sylven Landesberg & Scotty Hopson for us too but those 2 aren't pure shooters like English). That's why I'd use the draft pick at 48 on that type of player. I already know we could find PGs, wings, a very promising center with skills and a few PFs that are as good if not better than anyone we could take at 48.

    Starting to give 6'8" SF/SG Hollis Thompson outta G-Town a real look now, though. That kid can shoot it too and at that size (good for a SF, excellent for a 2G), he's real intriguing. Pretty good in all other areas too -- good athlete, pretty good rebounder, etc. And his length could give the opposition problems when he's out defending on the perimeter. Was unhappy with his role on the Hoyas during his soph. season, declared for the draft last year before pulling out and going back to school -- went on to have a better junior yr. where he showed steady improvement. Any Big-East/G-Town fans out there that have a good feel for this kid? Is he a late bloomer that could make it in the NBA?

    I like English also and hope he is the Knicks pick at 48. The guy has good range and can fill it up.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by Pearl15
    I like English also and hope he is the Knicks pick at 48. The guy has good range and can fill it up.
    Bottom line for me -- we really need an upgrade at 2G with this pick...Kim English can really shoot the ball and from what I've seen anyway he's got some nice versatility -- dude can handle it a little bit and he's underrated defensively. He'd be a nice pickup. At 48 on a win-now team, I think you go need and this guy fills a HUGE need for us -- a 2G that can really fill it up from deep. Whether it's English or Hollis Thompson for their standout shooting or someone else (maybe 6'6" Kevin Murphy is the way to go if he's there -- dude's bigger than English and he looks to be a more versatile overall scorer in the Nick Young mold -- or a guy like 6'5" Orlando Johnson outta UC Santa Barbara who's not even listed on nbadraft.net's mock. This guy looks like a dynamite prospect -- he might be my dark horse at this point...Looks incredibly strong and well put together, an absolute bull of a 2G...Very nice combination of brute strength, above-average athleticism and high skill level...For starters, he can definitely shoot it (over 40% from 3 back to back yrs [39.7% his soph. season] which is an absolute requisite for me in terms of who we draft--we gotta start there. The player has to be able to shoot the ball well---good thing is we should have a couple of guys to choose from). 6'5", somewhere in the neighborhood of 220-230 lbs possibly with a 6'11" wingspan. That's a very impressive physical package...Even if cut off after using a very good first step, he's still got the strength, length, handle, footwork and craftiness to get to the rim anyway. Looks incredibly hard to stop when he puts it on the floor..Shows he got a solid mid-range game and a very underrated post game too - again, his strength, footwork and offensive skill level all serve him well here..This guy really reminds me of Mitch Richmond. No joke. I can't see him slipping that much though. The man looks like 1st round talent all the way to me. Maybe this is a guy we can target if we can move up in this draft -- possibly with this rumored trade of Fields (resigned I guess - S&T?) + #48 to GS for their pick at 30. I do that deal...I'd draft Orlando Johnson at 30 and then replace Fields with one of the following on the cheap: Jamelle Horne, Sylven Landesberg or Scotty Hopson (3 solid undrafted wings from last yr's draft class)... I think I like Johnson better than Jared Cunningham who's been getting a lot of hype lately. I hope to God other teams are sleeping on him and he falls to the point where we have a shot at him somehow, either at 48 or with a deal to move up.


    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 20, 2012 at 09:39.

  4. #34
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    i think i'm liking orlando johnson more than kim english. but looking at his TO ,wtf?

    i'll give it a pass, though. since, he doesn't have to be the premier go to guy.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by BananaSauce
    i think i'm liking orlando johnson more than kim english. but looking at his TO ,wtf?

    i'll give it a pass, though. since, he doesn't have to be the premier go to guy.
    You're right bro, turnovers do look a little on the high side (2.5 in 34.4 mins/game) although he's on par with some other 2Gs in this draft that are projected to go higher, namely Jared Cunningham and Darius Johnson-Odom. I think I like him better than both of those guys to be honest. But no doubt, he could use some tightening up in this area.

    Let's be honest though, outside of the slightly high TO rate, this guy has so many positives. Superior strength for his position, excellent athleticism (39" vertical leap), rediculous wingspan for a 6'5" SG (almost 7'), tremendous offensive potential in every facet (40+% 3-pt shooter over several college seasons, solid mid-range game, can create his own shot at will, adept penetrator with a better-than-average 1st step, great footwork & body control esp. off his spin moves in close, finishing ability with a body that looks like it can absorb a ton of contact--a lot initiated by him, very effective-looking post up game), rebounding ability...So much to like here in one package.

    I tell ya, I never really wanna say I hope a guy slips -- I know how hard these kids work on their games -- it's nice to finally see all that hard work pay off on draft night and see these guys get that 1st round guaranteed money that'll enable them to better take care of themselves and their families, but as a selfish Knick fan whose team is picking 48th, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want him to slide. I just wish we had more assets available to us to move up. Moving up into the 1st round seems like a pipedream (no true tradable assets, no money to use in a trade) but maybe Grunwald and co. surprise us and we can move up into the top portion of the 2nd round somehow -- maybe into the 31-38 range. If we can get up there, maybe we can have a shot at this kid... A little disappointed to read that we haven't had O. Johnson in for a private workout so far. I think that's a huge mistake. Pound for pound he looks like one of the top SGs in this draft to me, and there are several real good ones. Maybe one of the top players overall by the time it's all said & done. This guy's a baller. Hopefully we can bring him in for a closer look sometime between now and the draft. Couldn't hurt...

    Maybe certain things about him scare some teams off & allow him to slip: (1) he measured out over 10% body fat (he doesn't really show it however, plus he's said to have one of the best motors in this draft so this doesn't concern me--he obviously can play at a high level in the 220-230 lb. range); (2) suspect competition on a nightly basis playing in the Big West and for a smaller, mid-major school; (3) he's actually a yr older than most in this draft class, having had sat out 1 yr after his transfer from Loyola Marymount to UCSB a couple of yrs. ago and (4) he never really got any better from his previous Jr. yr, where he had declared for the draft only to pull out when there wasn't any interest (although he continued to maintain the same high level of play as a Sr. showing no real dip in performance at all, which to me is a positive--consistency over the long haul is a good thing in my book).
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 21, 2012 at 11:52.

  6. #36
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    is this for reals?

    i hope they make a better decision. i dont think we can buy a pick this year.

    The NBA Draft is on June 28, one week from today. Currently, the New York Knicks still only hold one draft pick: the 48th, which puts them in the position of once again looking for a steal in the second round. While they could potentially try and move up in the draft by making a trade, there hasn’t been any definitive word, so as of now, it seems that they Knicks will stay put.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] currently has the Knicks taking Marquette’s [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] with the 48th pick. Johnson-Odom is a 6’2″ shooting guard coming off an impressive senior campaign in which he averaged 18.3 ppg, on 44.7% FG, and 38.5% 3FG. Johnson-Odom is a sharp-shooter off catch-and-shoots and pull-up jumpers. To add to his dangerous outside game, he is equipped with a 215 lb frame, a 40″ vertical, and a jawline that would make Marlon Brando blush. Offensively, Johnson-Odom has the perfect game to complement the myriad Knicks scorers who do their work inside the arc.
    But back to the elephant in the room (or, really, lack thereof): Johnson-Odom is just 6’2″, some say 6’3″. If Johnson-Odom was a combo guard, a la Jason Terry, the problem would be negated. Players of Johnson-Odom’s stature have typically carved out fairly successful careers in the NBA, at times playing the role of scoring point guards, at times playing like undersized shooting guards. However, Johnson-Odom, despite his point guard frame, rarely plays as a point guard. Over his three seasons playing at Marquette (he didn’t play his freshman year), Johnson-Odom never averaged more than 2.7 apg, but had a usage percentage (USG%) of 27% his junior and senior years.
    Likewise, the problem is compounded by the Knicks’ (potential) depth at the shooting guard. While much of the roster remains up in the air, J.R. Smith may opt into the second and final year of his contract, Landry Fields (who despite being a natural small forward, has been fairly productive as a two-guard in the NBA) may be re-signed this offseason, and Iman Shumpert will be returning from a torn ACL in December or January. If the Knicks were to draft Johnson-Odom, they would potentially have three or four shooting guards all trying to earn a spot in the rotation.
    But the upside for Johnson-Odom is undeniable. Not only could he have immediate impact as a reliable catch-and-shooter on the perimeter, Johnson-Odom is a tenacious, physical defender who rebounds well for his size, and was impressing scouts and GMs during workouts because of his defensive presence, according to Jared Zwerling on the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    Of course, given all of the positives of Johnson-Odom, it’s quite possible that a team could select him earlier in the draft. The only real deterrent is that Odom is undersized and may struggle in the bigger NBA.
    So, like all draft prospects, there are pros and cons, and all we can do is wait to see how it turns out
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    Last edited by BananaSauce; Jun 22, 2012 at 09:47.

  7. #37
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    I'll take this kid Johnson-Odom if that's who they're zeroing in on...I just need to keep reminding myself that we're picking 48th...DJO is pretty good value at that spot I suppose, if he's even still on the board...There are things that concern me a little (he's a small 6'2" SG, no PG skills) but he can score and he's a good athlete. Maybe he turns out to be the next Monta Ellis, who knows? A lefthanded Monta Ellis wouldn't be terrible..We could make use of that. Maybe that's being overly optimistic -- Ellis is one hell of a player.

    I'd prefer to see them target a bigger, more prototypical 2G though - either a more well-rounded scorer a-la Kevin Murphy or Orlando Johnson or take a chance on a true sniper with that one decernible skill -- outside shooting (Kim English, Hollis Thompson). We could benefit greatly going either way -- as long as we upgrade that position...Can't possibly go with a 2G that's passive, defers too much to others and can't shoot for half the game anymore)...Orlando Johnson seems to be a nice mixture of everything we could possibly want in a 2G and he's not getting a lot of love on most of these draft mocks which makes me believe we could possibly have a shot at him. Just trying to keep my expectations realistic. I really don't see OJ slipping to us -- I see too much talent in a pro 2G body, but you never know...I became a huge Ben Hansbrough fan his senior yr and that guy didn't even get drafted which shocked the hell outta me..Big East POY..Instead Josh Harrellson gets drafted (good thing for us because he can play and shoot the ball better than anyone out there ever realized so kudos to the Knicks for that discovery and seeing potential there), Andy Rautins gets drafted the yr before and I think Hansbrough's a much better player, etc...Point is anything could happen.

    If they're really serious about DJO all I ask of them is to check out Curtis Jerrells, a 6'1" lefty PG outta Baylor that went undrafted a couple of years ago. This guy may not have the hops DJO has (still a good athlete in his own right with superb quickness) but he's very comparable as a scoring lefty guard. Only to me, Jerrells has more PG skills...See in my mind, if I was looking for this type of player, I'd grab this kid Jerrells cheap, then use the pick on something else...There are a ton of very similar player comparisions just like this one out there..Not sure if the Knicks look at things in these terms though. I wish the hell they did because they could really maximize value and contrary to what many believe around here, build a surprisingly complete roster doing things this way. I just hope we have someone close to Grunwald that's in his ear going, "hey boss, instead of blowing a draft pick or all that money on this FA, I want you to look at this guy instead." I'm curious if we have that type of talent evaluator on our staff. If I were the Knicks, if we don't already have a guy like this, I'd hire a real guru for this exact purpose -- all he would have to do is go out and find me similar players/players who could do the same job compared to the higher salary/higher profile players. Look at the movie 'Moneyball' -- that's what I'm talking about. The Jonah Hill character... Everytime I see this movie, it makes me wish the Knicks were run the same way, esp. now in our situation of being capped out with the star talent at the top. To me, this is the way you fill in the rest of the blanks now.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 22, 2012 at 19:52.

  8. #38
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    ^^^ considering that in the last few years the knicks drafted or traded for Novak, Shump, Lin, and Fields who were all off the grid guys. I do think they have a moneyball guy in the Knicks FO. I mean honestly has anyone done more with less the last few years than the knicks.

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    ^^^ considering that in the last few years the knicks drafted or traded for Novak, Shump, Lin, and Fields who were all off the grid guys. I do think they have a moneyball guy in the Knicks FO. I mean honestly has anyone done more with less the last few years than the knicks.
    You're right. They've had some success going this route and deserve to be commended for it, though I'd like to see them take it much further.

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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    ^^^ considering that in the last few years the knicks drafted or traded for Novak, Shump, Lin, and Fields who were all off the grid guys. I do think they have a moneyball guy in the Knicks FO. I mean honestly has anyone done more with less the last few years than the knicks.
    I agree with you, we definetely got lucky lately, hopefully it keeps going. From what I just read the bird rights arbitration went in our favor, let's hope it holds up as I also read from another poster that the NBA can appeal.

  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by dasilva1079
    I agree with you, we definetely got lucky lately, hopefully it keeps going. From what I just read the bird rights arbitration went in our favor, let's hope it holds up as I also read from another poster that the NBA can appeal.
    That arbitration ruling is going to have a major influence on the draft choice that is for sure.

  12. #42
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    that's what is concerning me is DJO's size and lack of pg skill set. mostly his size.

    well, if they (scouts and GMs)were impressed defensively i guess i'll just have to wait and see.

  13. #43
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    Alan Hahn confirms the knicks do in fact have $3 Million of cash consideration

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    If a team is looking to sell and take nothing back, the Knicks have the pieces, plus $3 million in cash considerations, to put on the table.
    The Thunders 28th pick is up for grabs since the rumor is the Thunder do not want to have to pay for a late draft pick who likely wont get playing time. Hell Reggie Jackson was drafted at 24 for them and can't break into their regular rotation.

    Draft Express has 2 pg's late Marquis Teague and Tyshawn Taylor that are still on the board around the end of the draft.

    Marquis Teague


    Tyshawn Taylor

  14. #44
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    Jesus, if this is true man...We won the Bird rights ruling AND now we suddenly DO have the cash to move up in this draft?? Wow...Words can't even describe if this is true...

    I'd love to believe this but something tells me this might be a slight oversight on Hahn's part...Enough people around here have already confirmed it isn't so. Hey we can only hope though, right?

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    Jesus, if this is true man...We won the Bird rights ruling AND now we suddenly DO have the cash to move up in this draft?? Wow...Words can't even describe if this is true...

    I'd love to believe this but something tells me this might be a slight oversight on Hahn's part...Enough people around here have already confirmed it isn't so. Hey we can only hope though, right?
    Maybe the cash considerations reset before the draft the official end of the season? Or maybe you can promise the money from the upcoming season prior to the the end of Free Agency?

    Either way I agree with you I hope Hahn is right, being able to get two rookies to fill out the roster instead of one would be great alongside the returning players and the added Free Agency. It should be enough to give the Knicks guaranteed depth for the rest of the Core 3's contracts.

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