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Thread: We should be pretty good next year, right??

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Word, lol at finestrg lineup with Kim English in the starting lineup.
    English's outside shooting balances out that starting 5 PERFECTLY. It's the last element that starting 5 is missing -- a legit long range threat at the 2 spot. A sniper. We'd be better off with CDR coming off the bench in that scenario to lead the 2nd unit attack.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 11, 2012 at 21:17.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by Rob Low
    I feel like you're trying to turn this team into a d-league team. Im fine with adding a few out of the league guys but no way are we winning a championship with that many scrubs on the team.
    When you're looking for a WELL BALANCED TEAM and YOU'RE UP AGAINST THE SALARY CAP this is one of the best and safest ways to fill in the blanks. Welcome to the NBA. I wish they didn't have a damn salary cap, but they do..You look for cheap alternatives, guys with ability that have something to prove, guys with nice potential that we can turn into players, etc. I don't get what's so hard to understand.

    LOL at calling these guys 'scrubs' btw. ROFL at that comment. In my book, a scrub is a guy who simply can't play. Period. Everyone I talked about in that scenario has talent and can play. Big difference. I've seen every player I discussed -- I know firsthand not only that they're all far from 'scrubs' but that each guy has a great deal of ability and potential to contribute at the NBA level -- not only that, they all fit our needs perfectly one way or another...The last thing I rely on when evaluating a player is (1) whether or not they got drafted and (2) whether or not they played in the D-League.. That ain't gospel, at least not to me..A lot of you guys consider playing in the DL as some kind of stigmatism or black eye on a guy's record. Not true.. The DL is filled with guys that can play at the next level...If Grunwald worried about stuff like this he never would've offered Jeremy Lin a contract and Linsanity would've never gotten off the ground... If you actually saw any of these guys play then you'd have a better understanding of what I'm trying to say here. They're not scrubs! These are guys just like Lin, just like Novak, etc. -- guys that have talent and just need an opportunity to showcase those talents and show they belong.

    Also for what it's worth, I don't think you go out and spend money on a veteran just for the sake of getting a veteran. No need for additional leadership on this club too in my view -- we already have leadership. This team is top heavy with veteran leadership -- Amar'e, Melo & Ty Chandler. Now there are always exceptions -- if we could ever get a guy like Steve Nash to come here for example, of course I'm in. That seems very doubtful to me though. Even if we win the Bird rights hearing and have the full mid-level to burn, (a) there's no guarantee he'll take the full MLE (some team out there may be in a position to offer him more than that---does he bite & go for the money with a contract that will most likely be his last substantial payday?) and (b) I heard Nash doesn't really wanna leave PHX anyway. Outside of Nash, there are few (if any) NBA vets that I'd overpay or offer up the full MLE to in order to bring here. Name me the one MLE-type FA who's out there that we could get that unequivocally puts us on that next level -- for us, I'd like to think that's on a championship level (remember we're talking mid-level salary guys, not the big fish -- gotta be realistic too -- don't give me some UFA that's obviously not leaving his current team). Maybe Steve Nash -- and that probably took a big hit when his boy D'Antoni departed the way he did...Who else? A past-his-prime Grant Hill? I think he'd definitely take the full MLE (I personally don't think he's nearly worth that kind of money anymore btw) but does he really put us on that level at this stage of his career? I don't think so..Plus this guy turned us down flat I don't know how many times. Like Nash, he probably doesn't wanna leave PHX anyway and might take less to stay there.. Pass. He doesn't want us and I don't want him...Who else then? Ray Allen? Maybe. Again, same thing though -- doubtful he leaves Boston and I actually think for what he does which is basically come off screens and knock down mid-range jumpers & 3s at a 40+% clip, there are guys in the draft that we could target for the same exact purpose (namely John Jenkins and Kim English) and save almost $6M a pop in the process. See where I'm coming from now a little? The last thing I wanna ever, ever, EVER see us do again is commit full MLE money to the wrong guy, find out it was a mistake and then have that bad contract handcuff us moving forward. Been there, done that. If it came down to that and we weren't talking about a no-brainer like a Steve Nash, I'd pass on handing out the full MLE to anyone and instead divide it up on smaller, more favorable contracts or bypass it altogether and target minimum level salary players as long as they've shown somewhere along the way that they can play. Just because we may have the MLE and smaller exceptions at our disposal doesn't mean we must use them. We have to be smart about what we decide to do. I'd like to think they understand that now. Also, from what I've read, the Knicks aren't interested in breaching the luxury tax threshold again anyway. The penalty is now much more severe supposedly. From a business standpoint, I don't blame them. Definitely can't do that if it's not for the right player and if the team wouldn't be on a championship level.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 11, 2012 at 21:29.

  3. #33
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    The team we currently have is better than that lineup though. We need to get better this offseason not take steps backwards and take chances on a band of misfits who are either not in the league or getting any significant minutes

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    When you're looking for a WELL BALANCED TEAM and YOU'RE UP AGAINST THE SALARY CAP this is one of the best and safest ways to fill in the blanks. Welcome to the NBA. I wish they didn't have a damn salary cap, but they do..You look for cheap alternatives, guys with ability that have something to prove, guys with nice potential that we can turn into players, etc. I don't get what's so hard to understand.

    LOL at calling these guys 'scrubs' btw. ROFL at that comment. In my book, a scrub is a guy who simply can't play. Period. Everyone I talked about in that scenario has talent and can play. Big difference. I've seen every player I discussed -- I know firsthand not only that they're all far from 'scrubs' but that each guy has a great deal of ability and potential to contribute at the NBA level -- not only that, they all fit our needs perfectly one way or another...The last thing I rely on when evaluating a player is (1) whether or not they got drafted and (2) whether or not they played in the D-League.. That ain't gospel, at least not to me..A lot of you guys consider playing in the DL as some kind of stigmatism or black eye on a guy's record. Not true.. The DL is filled with guys that can play at the next level...If Grunwald worried about stuff like this he never would've offered Jeremy Lin a contract and Linsanity would've never gotten off the ground... If you actually saw any of these guys play then you'd have a better understanding of what I'm trying to say here. They're not scrubs! These are guys just like Lin, just like Novak, etc. -- guys that have talent and just need an opportunity to showcase those talents and show they belong.

    Also for what it's worth, I don't think you go out and spend money on a veteran just for the sake of getting a veteran. No need for additional leadership on this club too in my view -- we already have leadership. This team is top heavy with veteran leadership -- Amar'e, Melo & Ty Chandler. Now there are always exceptions -- if we could ever get a guy like Steve Nash to come here for example, of course I'm in. That seems very doubtful to me though. Even if we win the Bird rights hearing and have the full mid-level to burn, (a) there's no guarantee he'll take the full MLE (some team out there may be in a position to offer him more than that---does he bite & go for the money with a contract that will most likely be his last substantial payday?) and (b) I heard Nash doesn't really wanna leave PHX anyway. Outside of Nash, there are few (if any) NBA vets that I'd overpay or offer up the full MLE to in order to bring here. Name me the one MLE-type FA who's out there that we could get that unequivocally puts us on that next level -- for us, I'd like to think that's on a championship level (remember we're talking mid-level salary guys, not the big fish -- gotta be realistic too -- don't give me some UFA that's obviously not leaving his current team). Maybe Steve Nash -- and that probably took a big hit when his boy D'Antoni departed the way he did...Who else? A past-his-prime Grant Hill? I think he'd definitely take the full MLE (I personally don't think he's nearly worth that kind of money anymore btw) but does he really put us on that level at this stage of his career? I don't think so..Plus this guy turned us down flat I don't know how many times. Like Nash, he probably doesn't wanna leave PHX anyway and might take less to stay there.. Pass. He doesn't want us and I don't want him...Who else then? Ray Allen? Maybe. Again, same thing though -- doubtful he leaves Boston and I actually think for what he does which is basically come off screens and knock down mid-range jumpers & 3s at a 40+% clip, there are guys in the draft that we could target for the same exact purpose (namely John Jenkins and Kim English) and save almost $6M a pop in the process. See where I'm coming from now a little? The last thing I wanna ever, ever, EVER see us do again is commit full MLE money to the wrong guy, find out it was a mistake and then have that bad contract handcuff us moving forward. Been there, done that. If it came down to that and we weren't talking about a no-brainer like a Steve Nash, I'd pass on handing out the full MLE to anyone and instead divide it up on smaller, more favorable contracts or bypass it altogether and target minimum level salary players as long as they've shown somewhere along the way that they can play. Just because we may have the MLE and smaller exceptions at our disposal doesn't mean we must use them. We have to be smart about what we decide to do. I'd like to think they understand that now. Also, from what I've read, the Knicks aren't interested in breaching the luxury tax threshold again anyway. The penalty is now much more severe supposedly. From a business standpoint, I don't blame them. Definitely can't do that if it's not for the right player and if the team wouldn't be on a championship level.
    I don't think the D-League has many guys like Lin or Novak. There are too many guys down in that league that are never gonna make an NBA roster, let alone crack a rotation.

    I like your arguments relating to finding value at a lower cost and why it's important right now. I think it's really hard to find guys like that though. You have to be savvy but also very lucky.

    Do you think Odom would be the right player, if this league ruling re Bird rights goes our way? I do.

    I would favor getting a player of his ilk over dividing the MLE up for smaller contracts/ lesser talented players. That is if he would even take the MLE to play for us. I think there's a good chance he'd take the MLE to come back to his hometown and also prove himself after the Dallas debacle. A player like Odom puts us in a good position to contend IMO if he can come off the bench and produce like he did in LA, that is rebound, defend and make the open 3... and play multiple positions. You get him on the right team and he's gonna really help.

    I agree w you that there's a small chance Nash would take the MLE to come here, especially after the D'Antoni resignation.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    I don't think the D-League has many guys like Lin or Novak. There are too many guys down in that league that are never gonna make an NBA roster, let alone crack a rotation.

    I like your arguments relating to finding value at a lower cost and why it's important right now. I think it's really hard to find guys like that though. You have to be savvy but also very lucky.

    Do you think Odom would be the right player, if this league ruling re Bird rights goes our way? I do.

    I would favor getting a player of his ilk over dividing the MLE up for smaller contracts/ lesser talented players. That is if he would even take the MLE to play for us. I think there's a good chance he'd take the MLE to come back to his hometown and also prove himself after the Dallas debacle. A player like Odom puts us in a good position to contend IMO if he can come off the bench and produce like he did in LA, that is rebound, defend and make the open 3... and play multiple positions. You get him on the right team and he's gonna really help.

    I agree w you that there's a small chance Nash would take the MLE to come here, especially after the D'Antoni resignation.
    Intelligent, quality response. You make some good points although I still say the D-League (along with the pool of domestic talent that decided to go play overseas) has quite a few good players that are capable of playing in the NBA -- the guys I personally talked about on my hypothetical roster post above I continue to stand by. I know they all can play & I think they would all be good fits here, every one of 'em.

    Agree on Odom. His time is most likely over in Dallas, although they still hold a team option on him for $8.2M. Not sure what Cuban's gonna do there -- I'm sure he's not gonna want to lose him for nothing but maybe that's exactly what happens. I think he played himself right outta town there...True, like Nash, he's another guy that's an exception to what I'm saying. Forgot about him for a sec. Maybe he would come to NY and fill the same role he did for the Lakers off the bench. If his head's screwed on straight he could help us. The man still has talent and also championship experience..Might be worth ponying up most or all of the MLE for him if we aren't forced to use it on Lin...Good call.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 14, 2012 at 08:57.

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