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Thread: We should be pretty good next year, right??

  1. #16
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    No offense, but the first mistake you made was "assuming" evryone is healthy.

    That really is in regard to Shump, who I believe tore his ACL for the 2nd time (not sure if its the same knee).

    FYI- when ligaments stretch/rip or are torn, the likelihood of reoccurance is increased.

    Shump showed potential in terms of filling a much needed hole- perimeter defense, and yet we still needed him to improve his outside shooting.

    Without him being able to practice that; with Lins lack of ability to be a true contending team PG (crisp passing, decision making, putting up quality shots in the lane, and locking down when necessary); and with AMARE'S inability to stay healthy as the back injury flares up...

    WE ARE DEAD MEAT. Not good, nor good enough. We are close yet so far. If someone NOT name Melo or Chandler ISN'T sacrificed by the deadline we will be dead. Its that simple.

    Here's the formula (you compare what we have, had, or could get and decide):

    1. A Knock-down shooter (able to create shots and take what the defense gives. His shots go in even with D, even when the entire building knows he's getting the rock. See Nowitzki, Bryant, Pierce)

    2. A solid big/pg combo (CHAMPIONSHIP PG's make the right decisions, control the flow, get hot players the rock where hey want it, and knock down shots when needed. They also help their bigs by playing D. See Kidd, Rondo, Parker, and Fisher)

    3. A solid bench that compliments the starters (Scoring boost, rebounding, defense... not as good as the starter but viable. See the ten past champion team's benches)

    4. A solid coach (If D'Antoni was a genius what is Jackson, Pop, and Doc? See mad-rings)

    5. Luck (Of course luck is involved but can't be relied upon. You could have all of te above and 1 major injury can sink a ship. They say luck is a byproduct of preparation. We shall see. I say do everything possible just in case luck isn't on our side.)

    Now ask yourself... do you realy think we are close to the chip?

    I don't think we're that close to a chip.

    I did not say that.

    Every GM tries to do all they can to prepare for things unforseen, but luck is going to be a factor in any winning situation, and the amount of preparation that can be done around injuries is limited.

    Whether luck plays a part or not we'll have to stay healthy in order to have a successful season that ends in more than a first playoff exit.

    You first assume that players will get/be healthy in our case though because when you have this many guys banged up there's not much you can do to mitigate that kind of situation. No one wants injured players. You have to hope that they heal as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that the player isn't reinjured. Then you go from there.

    Next, you seem to be all for trading Amare, but that will be very difficult for obvious reasons I think we're stuck with him.

    You also seem to be underrating Lin, who when healthy is one of 10 best PG's in the league.

    I do agree with you re our bench though. I think Odom would be a nice addition. Whether it's realistic or not that he'd come remains a question. He would help us though. He brings tangible, proven skills in multiple areas. We need that.

    And on Woodson, I think he's a flawed coach. Like D'ant he ignores half of the basketball court. I'd love to have a great (complete) coach, but that aint gonna occur with this owner at the helm. We're screwed basically. Guys like Jackson and Pop need owners that will be hands off, like an owner should be. Dolan should stay out of the basketball decisions business and stick to doing his Oxy's

  2. #17
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    We should be better, everyone has to remember how many games we wasted with a lame duck coach in Mike D

    Mike Woodson had a 18-6 record and we were top 3 in defensive efieciency.

    If we had Woodson all year you could argue that we would be 5th to 3rd seed come playoff time

    Losing Shump is a big lose so I hope we can have JR sign the player option or get a nice cheap outside shooter like Jodie Meeks to fill that spot and space the floor.

    It all starts with Jeremy Lin, he is our Rajon Rondo, he has to facilitate an offense of players that are bad passers.

    We need a decent backup PG so we always have a PG to facilitate the offense...no more combo pointguards like Douglas

  3. #18
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    Originally Posted by Red
    No offense, but the first mistake you made was "assuming" evryone is healthy.

    That really is in regard to Shump, who I believe tore his ACL for the 2nd time (not sure if its the same knee).

    FYI- when ligaments stretch/rip or are torn, the likelihood of reoccurance is increased.

    Shump showed potential in terms of filling a much needed hole- perimeter defense, and yet we still needed him to improve his outside shooting.

    Without him being able to practice that; with Lins lack of ability to be a true contending team PG (crisp passing, decision making, putting up quality shots in the lane, and locking down when necessary); and with AMARE'S inability to stay healthy as the back injury flares up...

    WE ARE DEAD MEAT. Not good, nor good enough. We are close yet so far. If someone NOT name Melo or Chandler ISN'T sacrificed by the deadline we will be dead. Its that simple.

    Real Talk ......
    Rookie Shump was an athletic bum performing like a lost puppy in our rotation untill Lin-Sanity hit the seen. Shump poor performance wasnt even a candidate for the rookie all-star game.
    Shump & Fields found their rythm & star-role in the lineup with PG-Lin (without Iso-Melo in the rotation). Add those 3 decent guard role-players with a DNP Novak & Jefferies whom Tyson Chandler co-exist best with in the frontcourt, and u have a 7 game winning streak without using 1 Iso-Melo play in 7 games. Plus rookie Shump shouldve never been a starter over Fields....Red Flag

    As for a healthy Amare & healthy roster, that actually couldve been possible if Melo's groin-injury wouldve lasted as long as Derick Rose Groin-injury. Look how fast an injured Baron Davis healed during Lin-Sanity, and a injured side line Iso-Melo.

  4. #19
    ★KNICKS-TAPE★ NYk_Reloaded718's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tkrieger
    This Knicks team could become loaded next season if the arbitrator rules in favor of the "Bird" rights for Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak....... This provides cap leeway to attain more star players. Not to mention taking the load off of Lin, Carmelo, and Chandler...... All we need is someone to get under LeBron's skin, and also a rebounder extraordinaire, and this team could really do something...... Especially if Lin and Shump continue to improve, and the lesser workload keeps the players healthy.
    THIS^^^ rep, our season would go alot smoother is we can get the bird rights to Lin/Novak to help us obtain even better players in FA... the Lamar odoms, Steve nash, jason kidd, ray allen etc etc

  5. #20
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    No, we won't be good, and I've outlined reasons for this in many threads.

    Carmelo Sucks at Playing Team Ball

    He doesn't understand the meaning of 'sacrifice'. That ESPN Face Off asked the wrong question, it should have been "how would you define Sacrifice?".

    The answer would have been telling.

    Woodson Sucks as a Coach

    Dump the ball to Melo and to hell with it. Yea, it'll win you some games over a droopy season but he'll get exposed in the playoffs.

    It's funny, we used to say the same thing about D'Antoni, but at least D'Antoni made it within a ****'s hair of the Finals, and had 50 and 60 win seasons every year for almost half a decade.

    Mike Woodson averaged 34 wins over 6 years with the Hawks and only managed one 50 win season along with suffering a pair of magnificently violent beatings in the playoffs.

    Jeremy Lin: Stunted and Blunted

    Under D'Antoni, Jeremy Lin would have been the boss on the floor, orchestrating at his uninhibited will. But now the mindless focus on centering Melo will impede Lin's development.

    Look for Lin to find a real team when he's 29 or 30, like Steve Nash. Then we will have Linsanity again.
    Last edited by orangeblobman; Jun 04, 2012 at 17:58.

  6. #21
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    No, we won't be good, and I've outlined reasons for this in many threads.

    Carmelo Sucks at Playing Team Ball

    He doesn't understand the meaning of 'sacrifice'. That ESPN Face Off asked the wrong question, it should have been "how would you define Sacrifice?".

    The answer would have been telling.

    Woodson Sucks as a Coach

    Dump the ball to Melo and to hell with it. Yea, it'll win you some games over a droopy season but he'll get exposed in the playoffs.

    It's funny, we used to say the same thing about D'Antoni, but at least D'Antoni made it within a ****'s hair of the Finals, and had 50 and 60 win seasons every year for almost half a decade.

    Mike Woodson averaged 34 wins over 6 years with the Hawks and only managed one 50 win season along with suffering a pair of magnificently violent beatings in the playoffs.

    Jeremy Lin: Stunted and Blunted

    Under D'Antoni, Jeremy Lin would have been the boss on the floor, orchestrating at his uninhibited will. But now the mindless focus on centering Melo will impede Lin's development.

    Look for Lin to find a real team when he's 29 or 30, like Steve Nash. Then we will have Linsanity again.
    You're entitled to your opinion, and i respect where your coming from, but this team has pretty good collection of players. 4 out or 5 of our starters is of a high caliber. The only question is Shumpert, him being injured and being a second yr player and all. If we get guys back healthy and fortify our bench we should be alright.

    I totally agree with you on Woodson. I'll get behind the team and root for his success, but the weaknesses are there. I won't stoop to hating as many did in the case of D'Ant. Make no mistake though we have a flawed coach.

  7. #22
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Agreed! Plenty of promise for us. We'll be very dependent on the health of our frontline - STAT, Tyson, Melo, frankly because we need at least half a season to formulate some continuity and the cognitive plays required to optimize the 3 offensively.

    Shump is a concern for me. Yes, he's young, but he's proven to be rather weak below the thigh as we all know.

    Lin's contract's structure plays in to our favor as far as he alone is concerned. I'm fully convinced that Colan will pay the 2nd tier luxury tax once it's implemented. On the flip-side of that situation however, the league holds our nuts in its hand as far as the ruling for or against players being picked up off of waivers goes in our favor.

    That's massive for us.




    I think, albeit an assumption, Odom's yet another player using the NY media to keep himself at the forefront of GM's minds whilst out of work.



    Fields has proven he's no more than a 7-8 spot bench player. I'm frustrated as **** with him. We'll only get the best out of him with a facilitating bench PG that likes to run. I'd really like to see us bring in a 2nd unit that runs, BTW, and we need a reliable backup to Chandler to throw in to that mix. Jorts has proven he has the mind to do so, but not the body.

    I'd love to keep Novak, but he tends to only play best when other legitimate threats are on the floor, again adding to the mounting pressure of this facking league ruling, and also adding to the import of building a dependable second unit, starting at the 1. Extending Douglas' $2M contract was a spaz move, seriously, and we could have let him walk and add someone who can see peripherally.




    I don't see us adding Odom, as I said, and am a little concerned about Jorts fitness, but you're right. He is a heady player and an offensive threat in a well spaced offense. His defense is surprising as you wouldn't expect someone as lumbering as him to move well laterally. That timing is indicative of his defensive IQ, the end where we'll need him the most.

    How much does Jefferies have left in the tank?




    Unfortunately, we may not have a choice in the matter. The league allegedly froze an envelope for us to help sway the future of the NBA toward one of the bigger markets in 1985. Will they help us out again this off-season?



    I think the only disparity, excluding Barkely who's a freak, between the players you mentioned is Melo's weight. I can't claim to know too much about it, but I think some upper body strength and 5 KGs off will help him absolutely. He's bottom heavy and exploits it, I think some added muscle up top will help him with his somewhat limited explosiveness.



    86 points out of our starting line up would be very nice!!! 20 off the bench and we'd be doing extremely well. Under Woody, however, and the fact that we're less of a running team than the Hawks were, I think stopping opponents will take preference over all other strategies.

    Woody still has a lot of offensive trials ahead for the coming season. I wonder if he'll tweak his supporting cast to help get it done? As far as I know Darrell Walker is no offensive expert.






    Absolutely. He made it abundantly clear in his speech at Chandler's DPOY award ceremony that defense will be the M.O, and Chandler will be the anchor of that.

    Offensively, I think we all know what's required across the board, and it's encouraging to see that STAT and TC will be under Olajuwon's tutelage in the offseason. Melo will be playing team ball with USA, Lin is off to compete as a member of the select squad taking on the Olympians, Shump can only rest.

    Thus far, they're the only guaranteed Knicks, IMO, for a season that is so, so f'ing far away!
    Well, that's 3 times in a row now. **** replying to Ron from now on.

  8. #23
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Well, that's 3 times in a row now. **** replying to Ron from now on.
    Lolz.. Don't take my lack of reply for a lack of love or respect Crazy.

    Your reply post was comprehensive and informative. I thought you either added to or clarified my original post, which was spot -on.

    I had nothing to add to or rebutt really.

    I should've atleast said something. You took time to put together a nice post. You're right.

    Apologies for my asshattery/laziness.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jun 05, 2012 at 07:13.

  9. #24
    BALL DON'T LIE MeloforMayor's Avatar
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    Good news, my *****s

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    NEW YORK — To the surprise of virtually no one, NBA Commissioner David Stern believes the league will win the Bird Rights arbitration hearing regarding Knicks Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak on June 13.

    “We believe that the position that we are espousing here is the one that the contract says is the one and that the arbitrator will confirm,” Stern said Wednesday in New York. “And whatever the outcome, it won’t affect the rivalry between the Knicks and the Nets.”

    The hearing will determine if the Knicks hold the Bird Rights to Lin and Novak, both of whom were claimed off waivers.

    The union is arguing waived players should retain their rights, but the league is stating a player’s clock should be “reset” once he’s acquired through waivers.

    If the union — and thus the Knicks — win they could re-sign both players while still maintaining their mid-level exception of $5 million for a point guard like Steve Nash, Raymond Felton or Jameer Nelson.

    “We’re interested bystanders, let’s say,” Knicks GM Glen Grunwald said of the hearing. “Obviously it will impact some things that will provide us a couple more options in terms of trying to improve our team but it’s still the same basic deal.”

    Asked if he thought the union had a good chance to win the case, Grunwald said: “I don’t really have an opinion on it although I am a recovering lawyer. I don’t really think that it’s my position to make a comment on the merits of the case.”

  10. #25
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    i say we wait till next season before we pass judgement on anybody and that includes melo, stat, lin, and woodson. This whole season has been a cluster**** with the lockout, injuries, etc and last season was as well esp with melo getting traded in the middle of the season.

    We sign lin with MLE bc we def not getting bird rights and we hope that Novak signs and maybe even JR. If JR decides he's better than getting paid 2.5 mill we look for a consistent shooter who can also cut. Also, we offer douglas/jordan or even sign and trade jeffries/douglas (would hurt to lose him) to see if we can get a good back up pg bc b diddy was a fiasco and bibby brings nothing to the table. Worst comes to worst, we sign AI or maybe starbury to come off the bench for vet minimum. If either of them start crying that they should be starters we cut them and let someone else pick up that drama.
    We may have to sign landry fields esp bc he developed a good relationship with lin and did play well with him.
    Develop Jorts during the off season and hope that he can get a good offense defense balance going and be a good back up for stat.
    Also, hope shump can come back sooner than expected and be the same defensive force he was this season.

    Given all that, and with a solid offseason, I think we can contend with the top 2 teams in the east for an eastern conference title and hopefully a championship. go

  11. #26
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    Default My lineup for next year

    5 - Chandler
    4 - STAT
    3 - Melo
    2 - Kim English (from the draft right into my starting lineup -- reminds me of Aaron Afflalo/poor man's Ray Allen -- good size at 6'6", dead-eye outside shooter and I think people will be pleasantly surprised by his solid, committed defense. Excellent fit)
    1 - Lin
    ------------------------
    5 - Marcus Cousin
    4 - Josh Harrellson
    3 - DaJuan Summers or Jamelle Horne
    2 - Chris Douglas-Roberts* (Sylven Landesberg, Jamelle Horne or Scotty Hopson)
    1 - Ben Hansbrough or Curtis Jerrells
    ------------------------
    5 - Jerome Jordan (trade bait to move up in the draft)
    4 - Jeff Adrien or Wayne Chism
    3 - Ryan Wittman
    2 - Iman Shumpert (IR longterm - possibly out for the season)
    1 - Toney Douglas (trade bait to move up in the draft)

    Would need summer league/training camp to sort some stuff out, like who my starting 2 would be (I like English with our starting 5) and primary backup SF, SG (only if I couldn't get CDR -- he wouldn't have to try out to make my team) and PG will be. I would expect some nice training camp competition at a few positions in this scenario: Summers/Horne, Horne/Landesberg/Hopson, Hansbrough/Jerrells, Adrien/Chism.

    *CDR is my 1st choice for 6th man/backup 2 but we may not have the money for him -- as a 3-yr NBA player, I think the bidding for his services will start at $885,120, though it might take more than that, both in years and dollars. We first need clarity on the Bird rights issue for Lin & Novak, esp. for Lin. Hypothetically speaking, if we lose the hearing, Lin will get the full MLE & Novak will walk (I expect someone will offer him more than the vet minimum or the bi-annual, off last year's solid season). Best case -- we win the ruling, Lin and Novak are resign using Bird rights and we then use part of the MLE on CDR and DaJuan Summers (who like CDR, may also have logged enough time to be considered a 3-yr NBA player). I can see some competition for CDR's services -- it may take an offer of 3-years/$3.5-4M to get him, which I personally think would be worth it. He would be a very good scoring option off the bench, sliding right into JR Smith's role for less money (I think Smith might be a goner). Summers should come even cheaper than CDR I'm thinking..I think Steve Nash coming here for the full mid-level is pure fantasy.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jun 05, 2012 at 18:23.

  12. #27
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Lolz.. Don't take my lack of reply for a lack of love or respect Crazy.

    Your reply post was comprehensive and informative. I thought you either added to or clarified my original post, which was spot -on.

    I had nothing to add to or rebutt really.

    I should've atleast said something. You took time to put together a nice post. You're right.

    Apologies for my asshattery/laziness.
    Not a drama, Rono! Had to get your attention somehow.

    Let it be known that I REQUIRE replies from the likes of yourself to quell what's circulating through my mind.

  13. #28
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Not a drama, Rono! Had to get your attention somehow.

    Let it be known that I REQUIRE replies from the likes of yourself to quell what's circulating through my mind.
    Word.

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    5 - Chandler
    4 - STAT
    3 - Melo
    2 - Kim English (from the draft right into my starting lineup -- reminds me of Aaron Afflalo/poor man's Ray Allen -- good size at 6'6", dead-eye outside shooter and I think people will be pleasantly surprised by his solid, committed defense. Excellent fit)
    1 - Lin
    ------------------------
    5 - Marcus Cousin
    4 - Josh Harrellson
    3 - DaJuan Summers or Jamelle Horne
    2 - Chris Douglas-Roberts* (Sylven Landesberg, Jamelle Horne or Scotty Hopson)
    1 - Ben Hansbrough or Curtis Jerrells
    ------------------------
    5 - Jerome Jordan (trade bait to move up in the draft)
    4 - Jeff Adrien or Wayne Chism
    3 - Ryan Wittman
    2 - Iman Shumpert (IR longterm - possibly out for the season)
    1 - Toney Douglas (trade bait to move up in the draft)

    Would need summer league/training camp to sort some stuff out, like who my starting 2 would be (I like English with our starting 5) and primary backup SF, SG (only if I couldn't get CDR -- he wouldn't have to try out to make my team) and PG will be. I would expect some nice training camp competition at a few positions in this scenario: Summers/Horne, Horne/Landesberg/Hopson, Hansbrough/Jerrells, Adrien/Chism.

    *CDR is my 1st choice for 6th man/backup 2 but we may not have the money for him -- as a 3-yr NBA player, I think the bidding for his services will start at $885,120, though it might take more than that, both in years and dollars. We first need clarity on the Bird rights issue for Lin & Novak, esp. for Lin. Hypothetically speaking, if we lose the hearing, Lin will get the full MLE & Novak will walk (I expect someone will offer him more than the vet minimum or the bi-annual, off last year's solid season). Best case -- we win the ruling, Lin and Novak are resign using Bird rights and we then use part of the MLE on CDR and DaJuan Summers (who like CDR, may also have logged enough time to be considered a 3-yr NBA player). I can see some competition for CDR's services -- it may take an offer of 3-years/$3.5-4M to get him, which I personally think would be worth it. He would be a very good scoring option off the bench, sliding right into JR Smith's role for less money (I think Smith might be a goner). Summers should come even cheaper than CDR I'm thinking..I think Steve Nash coming here for the full mid-level is pure fantasy.
    I feel like you're trying to turn this team into a d-league team. Im fine with adding a few out of the league guys but no way are we winning a championship with that many scrubs on the team.

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    Originally Posted by Rob Low
    I feel like you're trying to turn this team into a d-league team. Im fine with adding a few out of the league guys but no way are we winning a championship with that many scrubs on the team.
    Word, lol at finestrg lineup with Kim English in the starting lineup.

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