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Thread: Big 3 Report Card: Grading $53M worth of front-court

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Announcement Big 3 Report Card: Grading $53M worth of front-court







    GRADING THE BIG ❸

    Tyson Chandler's acquisition post lockout 2011 was touted as the completion of the league's most dominant front-court: Melo, Stat and the recently anointed champion, Tyson Chandler.

    After one of the most depressing, inspiring, will breaking and uplifting season's for me as a Knick fan, looking back on the season that was and the sheer excitement of the team's new found potential, the comparative outcome was anticlimactic to say the least.

    All that money invested in to 3 players that just couldn't conjure up a sense of continuity between them on the offensive end. And, bar of course TC, were a disappointment defensively to boot.

    So, as is the way, I'd like to see how each of you who entertain the idea grade each individual under the following categorical headings:


    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL
    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE
    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ
    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL
    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE
    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ
    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc.

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT ~ in your opinion, based upon what you've derived from what you've seen.

    STAT, Melo and Tyson - grade 'em.

    ______________________________

    I'll get back to you all with my grades at a later date.

  2. #2
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Just gonna do STAT since I don't have too much time today..



    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - Right now I'd give him a B-. He seems to of lost some explosiveness and quickness. He has to rely more on his jump shot now, which is not airtight, like Malone's or Garnett's for that matter.

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - D. He hasn't been able to mesh well with Melo consistently yet, he still hasn't figured out in my opinion how to really thrive with Chandler on the court (maybe this is the coaches fault) and he seems to be suffering from the lack of a steady pick and role diet. I think he should use Chandler more to dump the ball to when he drives and Chandler's man helps. He too often losses the ball or allows the other team to draw a charge. He should watch film of himself doing this crap.

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ - B+. I don't think he's as smart of a team offensive guy as a Duncan or Garnett in this regard. They are a A-1 guys who can adapt their games and absorb offense unbelievably. They also pass out of double teams. Too often Amare doesn't use his teammates when he should.

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE - D-. He's clearly not gotten used to his role yet, which seems to be defer to Melo and take what's there. He didn't seem to get nearly has many offensive ISO's as he did last year or pick and roles and as we all know these are his bread and butter. Amare's game needs a make-over.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - F. Amare's individual defense is just sad.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - C+. When he does help off the weak-side he can be quite effective. Unfortunately he isn't always aware that he needs to help and he reacts late. I'm probably being generous with that C grade.

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ - D- This clearly not his strong suit.

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE- C-. We deserve better from our 100 mil dollar man.

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc. C+ I think Amare tries. Unfortunately he is a system player who is being asked to do things he isn't used to doing. I do think he loses focus many times on the defensive end.

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT ~ in your opinion, based upon what you've derived from what you've seen. - A. Amare is a good teammate. He seems to have good positive energy when he's on the floor.

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    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    ^^^ Nice break down. I agree with all of your Amare grades (including the dubious C+ for team defense)

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    Pretty good thread idea.

    Let me take a crack at this, but I will put each player in a separate post.....

    Tyson...

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - C. Has virtually no offensive moves, and recognizes that in this game by not going outside his game, yet can get 10 points with high efficiency in any case.

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - B. Sets great screens, rolls well, and can finish with either a high % dunk or fouls drawn.

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ - B. Basically plays the game the right way, and if he actually does work with Hakeem, he truly wants to improve.

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE - A. Not brought in the score, but can finish, definitely not a liability.

    ● DEFENSIVELY A+ On all of the OP's breakdown areas. He anchors our defense, helps out from anywhere on the court, scraps for loose balls, and constantly talks with the team on the court.

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc. A+ Cannot be questioned in these areas, he is superb.

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT ~ in your opinion, based upon what you've derived from what you've seen. - A. The team respects the hell out of him, especially by playing banged up a good portion of the season and not complaining or using it as an excuse.


    Amare will be next....

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    Amare....

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - C. Can still score a basket, draw fouls when needed, but must be fed the ball. Needs a patented move around the rim. Can be absolutely shut down by a smart defender.

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - D. Lost if not featured, just doesn't seem comfortable or involved unless he has the ball, doesn't do the needed things consistently to help the offense run smooth.

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ - D+. I would have given him an F if it wasn't for his ability to score in the PNR, but he rarely passes when doubled, and tries to do too much with the ball, like dribbling, resulting in offensive fouls and turnovers.

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE - Incomplete. To be fair he had no role this past season, and I don't think it's all his fault either.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - F. Completely matador, he'd earn a D if he would at least use his fouls wisely.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - F. Liability to the utmost, used to be a good help defender, now it seems he doesn't care.

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ -.... Come on. do I seriously have to answer this one?

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE- F-. Shameful to be that bad defensively.

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc. - Incomplete. Really can't rate him here due to this being a season full of the worst things that can happen to a pro, from his injury lingering into a lockout season, and the death of his brother.

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT ~ in your opinion, based upon what you've derived from what you've seen. - B. Good team mate, not sure if he has the leadership quality though, I don't feel he inspires his team on the court to play their best.

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    Melo...

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - B. Needs to be more efficient, but can score against anyone in the league, and against any defense. He'd get an A if he made his offensive moves more quicker, because he is quick enough to elude any defense.

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - C. I know this will not be popular, but Melo definitely is willing to do whatever to put points on the board, and help teammates to do the same, but must move without calling for the ball, and be willing to pass a good shot for a better shot.

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ - B+. One of the best in an offensive set

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE - A. Can get the job done with the best of them.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - C. Good defender, when he puts in the effort.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - C. Willing to help, and not a liability on that end of the court.

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ -.... C-Has it, but doesn't show it enough.

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE- D. Has shown he can be a solid defender, but doesn't consistently put in the necessary effort every game

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc. - Incomplete. Not enough sample to truly judge, seems to be more involved when the offense goes through him, although as long as the team wins, I think he'd be ok with less shots per game.

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT ~ in your opinion, based upon what you've derived from what you've seen. - Definitely respected, but sometimes seem feared and froze by his own, by their non movement and standing around at times watching him work

  7. #7
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    Stat for 2012 = B- (this is actually a great grade for a guy that had a mediocre year) ... needs work on both ends, and needs to view how teams trapped him to cough up the ball - so he can fix)

    Chandler " " = B+ (has very little offensive game, and it actually hurts us as the better teams know this)

    Melo = B+ (showed signs of playing team ball and was much more effective imo in that scenario) he did carry us a bit though in the playoff games

    i'd be really happy if i can get these 3 A- Grades next season ...

    GO KNICKS

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    Default I watch, I bet, I evaluate my Home-Teams (my opinion)

    We are grading 3 of the NBA’s super-star player$$$
    Based on a 66 game / postseason performance. No verbal reason for discussion
    the grades are enough to show where improvement is needed for next season.
    36-30 + 1-4 = 37-34 season

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL
    Tyson – C+
    Stat – C
    Melo - B

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE
    Tyson – B
    Stat – C
    Melo – minus C

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ
    Tyson – C+
    Stat – minus C
    Melo – minus C

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE
    Tyson – B
    Stat – minus C
    Melo – C+

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL
    Tyson – C
    Stat – minus C
    Melo – minus C

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE
    Tyson – A+
    Stat – C+
    Melo – C

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ
    Tyson – B
    Stat – C
    Melo – minus C

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE
    Tyson – B
    Stat – C
    Melo – minus C

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc.
    Tyson – A+
    Stat – C+
    Melo – B

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT
    Tyson – A+
    Stat – C+
    Melo – minus C


    Total team-grade average:
    Tyson – B+
    Stat – C
    Melo – barely made a C
    Last edited by Kiyaman; Jun 09, 2012 at 14:19.

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    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], you need to edit yours again, seriously.

    No way Tyson individual defense is as bad as Amare.

    And no way is Amare average on any defensive category.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    I'll kick off with Melo first.


    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL

    When considering Melo's individual O this season in its entirety, I'll have to go with a flat B. He had his A+ moments undeniably, but the start of the season, as I'm sure we all remember, was in the vicinity of a C. Missed layups and short jumpers, missed passes for open cutters, living on that dog fence 3 point line.......man......'twas ugly.

    His efforts throughout April were certainly worthy of bumping him to a B+/A-, but throughout that pivotal opening stage of the season and the losing streak post Linsanity, Melo was not the package advertised when traded for from Denver offensively. At a smidgeon under $20M PA, that's not cutting the mustard.


    B

    ________________________

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE

    He was sporadic in his efforts when it came to delivering the ball. Again, at the start of the season, he had fans and Walt Frazier yelling "pass it" when he would hold the ball up and stagnate D'Antoni's flowing system.

    I see Melo as an underrated playmaker in this game, but his tendency to switch to offensive tunnel vision negates that.


    An underachiever's B-

    _________________________

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ

    He knows what works for him individually. He uses his body well. He rebounds effectively offensively, too. He knows what to do, he seems to have forgotten when to execute.

    Again, sporadic and inconsistent from the start of the season through its end.


    B-

    _______________________

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN HIS ROLE

    In Melo's defense, he didn't have a precisely defined role in D'Antoni's system at the start of the season. He was a 'perimeter player' whose arsenal was underfed. I think that given this distraction from his staple I can't really define an outcome to rate him by accordingly. Definitely will by next season's close.

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL

    Carmelo Anthony 2011-2012 = a noncontinuous contribution all round.

    He showed dome real promise defensively last season. We're all aware as Knick fans that he has the adequate athleticism, footwork, timing and anticipation to be a defensive stopper, but, as is the way with Carmelo Anthony, it all tends to depend on how willing he is to exert the effort.

    Courtesy of that conundrum, I can only afford Melo a

    C

    Plainly because he brought the effort 50% of the time, and between A and E, C is 50% of the way from one point to the other.


    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE

    See above. C


    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE

    See above. C

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc.

    Showed some real poise as a leader on a number of occasions. Rallying the troops, so to speak. But, as ****ing always with Melo, it depended on his mood more than his role as a leader as to whether or not he applied a leader's stance in these situations.

    But this is Melo's downside, IMO, and I think it affects his entire game.

    How many times did we see Melo ignore team mates as they walked hunched over in to another D'Antoni timeout? How many players physically removed themselves from a team huddle this year? 1: Melo.

    Inexcusable. A captain. A MAX salary player. A leader? **** that ****. Worst moment of the Knicks' season.

    D-


    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT

    See above. Another Jeckyl and Hyde.

    That basically makes up my entire opinion of Melo. Jeckyl and Hyde. 2 parallel individuals in the one body. The star and the underachiever.

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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], you need to edit yours again, seriously.

    No way Tyson individual defense is as bad as Amare.

    And no way is Amare average on any defensive category.


    I gave Tyson a C on individual defensive-effort for always defending guards above the 3-ball line, rather than trap guards. When our lineup showed no effort on the defensive-end, Tyson practically did the same by giving oponents 2nd and 3rd shot attempts.
    Tyson Chandler individual defensive effort was an A+ only when Jefferies received 30 minutes of playingtime, which was a short time.

    I gave Amare a C- minus for showing no individual effort on defense everytime Iso-Melo took Amare out of the offensive-plan.
    Amare getting the ball 1 time out of 5 offensive possession looked pissed.
    Anytime PG-Lin-Sanity took Amare out of the offense Amare knew to pickup his effort on defense so Lin would make Amare the first or second option on offense. The tandem of Lin & Amare were looking real good on offense/defense winning 5 straight games as soon as new headcoach Mike Woodson took over.
    To bad Lin & Amare came down with injuries at the same time (or rather the return of Iso-Melo with two new offensive aquisition of PG-Davis & SG-JR Smith added to the rotation.).
    The Knicks ended the regular season on a scoring-fest of out scoring oponents, defensive rebounds were the only requirement needed.

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    Originally Posted by knickscity
    Pretty good thread idea.

    Let me take a crack at this, but I will put each player in a separate post.....

    Tyson...

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL - C. Has virtually no offensive moves, and recognizes that in this game by not going outside his game, yet can get 10 points with high efficiency in any case.

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE - B. Sets great screens, rolls well, and can finish with either a high % dunk or fouls drawn.

    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ - B. Basically plays the game the right way, and if he actually does work with Hakeem, he truly wants to improve.

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE - A. Not brought in the score, but can finish, definitely not a liability.

    ● DEFENSIVELY A+ On all of the OP's breakdown areas. He anchors our defense, helps out from anywhere on the court, scraps for loose balls, and constantly talks with the team on the court.

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc. A+ Cannot be questioned in these areas, he is superb.

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT ~ in your opinion, based upon what you've derived from what you've seen. - A. The team respects the hell out of him, especially by playing banged up a good portion of the season and not complaining or using it as an excuse.

    Pretty much agree with this. Of the Big 3, Tyson is the only one I cannot complain about. He do whatever he can and doesn't play half-hearted. He gives his all in every play.

  13. #13
    ★KNICKS-TAPE★ NYk_Reloaded718's Avatar
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    ● OFFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL

    Amare- C+
    Melo- B+
    Chandler-C

    ● OFFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE

    Amare- D-
    Melo- C+
    Chandler-B


    ● OFFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ
    Amare- F-
    Melo- B-
    Chandler- C-

    ● OFFENSIVELY WITHIN THEIR ROLE
    Amare- C
    Melo- B
    Chandler B

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS AN INDIVIDUAL
    Amare-F
    Melo- C+
    Chandler A+

    ● DEFENSIVELY AS A TEAM MATE
    Amare-D+
    Melo- C-
    Chandler- A+

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF IQ
    Amare- F+
    Melo- C-
    Chandler- B+

    ● DEFENSIVELY IN TERMS OF EFFORT AND EXUBERANCE
    Amare- C
    Melo- B+
    Chandler- A+

    ● MENTALLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL ~ FOCUS, EFFORT, WILL etc.
    Amare- B-
    Melo- B+
    Chandler- A+

    ● REPORE WITH TEAM MATES ON THE COURT
    Amare-C+
    Melo-B-
    Chandler A+

    Nice thread, was kind of fun/depressing rating our star players.
    Last edited by NYk_Reloaded718; Jun 13, 2012 at 09:22.

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