Kobe is top 5 when everything is said and done he will have
Most pts scored
2 finals MVp
8 1st team def
possibly 3 olympic medals
Name 5 players better than that
The following is post from yahoo answers from some dude who did some conclusive digging.
Did Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain face weak competition?
Two of the NBA's greatest players, Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain, are often criticized for playing in a "weak" era. This is far from the truth, as the 1960s were a very good time for basketball. A much smaller league meant more competition for fewer spots. The fact that only the 121 best basketball players in the world could play in the NBA condensed the talent pool to nine teams. In the modern NBA, over half of the teams don't even have one all star player, nevertheless hall of famers. Examining the teams in the mid 1960s, all nine of them had Hall of Fame talents:
Boston Celtics: Bill Russel, John Havlicek, Sam Jones, Tommy Heinsolm
Cincinnati Royals: Oscar Robertson, Jerry Lucas
Philadelphia 76ers: Hal Greer
New York Knicks: Willis Reed
San Francisco Warriors: Wilt Chamberlain, Nate Thurmond
St. Louis Hawks: Bob Pettit
Los Angeles Lakers: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
Detroit Pistons: David Bing, Dave Debusschere
Baltimore Bullets: Walt Bellamy
Russel and Chamberlain faced various legends on a nightly basis, yet still were known as the best players of their generation. Throughout the decade, the two were subject to strong competition Some of the great players Russel and Chamberlain faced included:
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
One reason fans tend to lash out at these legends is the absurd stats of not only Russel and Chamberlain, but average players as well, as it was not uncommon for a player to average 15-20 rebounds per game. There are several reasons for the high rebound rates of these players:
a. A high tempo offense. The average team in 1965 shot about 600 more shots than a team in 1985 and about 1400 more shots than a team in 2005.
b. Less fouls called. In 1965, the average team had 2076 personal fouls per season. In 2005, 1856 personal fouls were called. But keep in mind that 1400 more shots were attempted, yet only 200 less fouls called. The result, a lowing field goal percentage, and more shots allowed to be rebounded.
When adjusting the field goal percentage to 45% and reducing the shots taken to the normal rate today, the rebounding rate drops to a more familiar rate for most players. Elgin Baylor would dropped to around 9 boards a game and Nate Thurmond to around 12. However, both Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain, even with the adjusted stats, still averaged between 16-20 rebounds per game, showing that they truly did dominate like few others.
Another common misperception is that Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain played against only 6'6" white centers. That is completely false. Here are the NBA players from 1960-1972 6'11" or taller who played at least 3 years in the NBA: (list does not include Wilt Chamberlain)
Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"
Two other factors to keep in mind:
a. The NBA was less interested in promoting itself 40 years ago, and therefore, did not see the need to measure players with their shoes on. Almost all players today are listed 1-2 inches taller than their actual height.
b. The NBA had 1/3 of the players that they do now. That means Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain faced these 25 guys 3 times more often than they would in the modern nba scheduling.
The truth is, height will never be more of a factor than skill. With several exceptions, players over 7' are typically not very successful. At a collegian level, only three 7 footers have made all-American first team in the last twenty years: Shaquille O'Neal, Andrew Bogut, and Chris Mihm. In this years all star game, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, and Chris Kaman were the only three of 30 players selected to be 7 feet, and all are known far more for their skill sets than dominating with size. If height was such a significant factor, then Manute Bol, Shawn Bradly, and Gheorghe Muresan would be hall of fame players, not just fan favorite scrubs.
The overall talent of the 1960s is greatly underestimated as well. The stamina that players in the 1960s have is far greater than anything seen today
1965 Top 3 in minutes played per game
1. Oscar Robertson, 45.6 mpg
2. Bill Russel, 45.2 mpg
3. Wilt Chamberlain, 44.4 mpg
2005 Top 3 in minutes played per game
1. Lebron James, 42.3 mpg
2. Allen Iverson, 42.3 mpg
3. Gilbert Arenas 40.9 mpg
In addition, teams never walked up the court and held the ball for 12
I found this interesting also..
Wilt and Russell faced each other 142 times during the 10 seasons in which they competed head-to-head. That's 14x per season. Then there was Nate Thurmond. Then Willis Reed. Then Walt Bellamy. Then Wes Unseld. Then Elvin Hayes. Then Jerry Lucas.
Heck, Wilt and Kareem faced each other 27x in only 3 full seasons of playing against each other (their careers overlapped by 4 seasons, but Wilt did not play against Kareem in 1970, when Wilt missed most of the season after tearing up his knee).
Shaq doesn't play 27 games against a HOF center over any 5 year period.
Food for thought.
Sorry for staying off topic.
Last edited by ronoranina; Jun 20, 2012 at 14:06.
The way the thunder's coach is being out coached by Spoelstra (who isn't that great of a coach himself) really leaves that door open as a possibility for them seeking Phil out and they have a roster that would fit phil's triangle better.
Wow. talk about going off the rails. lol
Phil is sour about not getting a call i'm sure, as he'd like the ego stroked even if he wouldn't take the job. I guess the knock on him will always be that he needed gift wrapped teams. he seems fine with that.
As for the top 5, etc. it really is subjective and comes down to your view point on basketball. Some people claim that the dominant force in basketball is correlated to size and so the centers tend to get more love. Others feel that point guards as the floor generals are where we should look to see the greats. Others feel that players like Jordan and Magic took it to a different level of competition and were among a tier that may never be seen again.
A lot of the same names get thrown around in these discussions but the ranking of them differs slightly. From where I sit I'd have to say Jordan was the best talent that ever graced the basketball floor and we will be looking for the "next jordan" for a long time.