Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 49

Thread: Lin win Birds Rights

  1. #31

    Default

    Originally Posted by BillyHoyle
    There are 2 issues here...The first is just $$$$...With this new interpretation, teams will be paying more money to players, since they will have more breathing room under the cap. More teams with cap room=larger offers for available talent...So if you were going to evaluate each team as a business, this decision just lowered the value of each team, since now their costs are going up

    The second issue is the big market vs small market thing...Obviously this ruling favors the larger markets, since they are the ones with the money available to go above the cap room. The league is trying everything it can to create balance, and wants to create an environment where small market teams can compete.
    It's such BS, if Dolan really wanted to save money he could just choose not to sign Lin and Novak, that simple. Oh wait so he doesn't care about the money and wants the players? Then that should be his right! Last I checked collusion is against the rules. Yeah there is a cap but there is also early Bird rights which have been set in stone so the arbitrator made the correct call. Go ahead and appeal like a bitch but the fact will remain. How is letting teams resign their own players a bad deal for teams? Other owners should be all for this too.

  2. #32
    Veteran AmareForPresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Queens,NY
    Posts
    1,791
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Damn what a relief! Best news about the Knicks I've heard in a while.

  3. #33
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    6,488
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    I think I'll exercise my skepticism on this one. Massive boon for big markets, and we all know what happened when Dan Gilbert (who is currently chainsawing a LBJ voodoo doll) intervened on the CP3 to LAL trade after the CBA lockout. This has gotta be in the same ballpark, no? There'll be tantrums, count on it.

    If smaller market teams object, and the league is attempting to put in place an equilibrium between all markets, this could very well turn in to another separation of sides ~ haves and have nots (on an NBA level, that is) ~ and cause a lot of headaches for Stern.

    Will he save himself the trouble and have it burned?

  4. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by Yes the NBA is Rigged
    It's such BS, if Dolan really wanted to save money he could just choose not to sign Lin and Novak, that simple. Oh wait so he doesn't care about the money and wants the players? Then that should be his right! Last I checked collusion is against the rules. Yeah there is a cap but there is also early Bird rights which have been set in stone so the arbitrator made the correct call. Go ahead and appeal like a bitch but the fact will remain. How is letting teams resign their own players a bad deal for teams? Other owners should be all for this too.
    No, it's not about Dolan wanting to save money. The Knicks (and any other team) that takes advantage of these new early bird rights will drive up the cost of the OTHER players for EVERY team since there is more cap space available. So, it is in David Stern's best interest to appeal this, since the teams are more valuable when the cost of the players is lower.



    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I think I'll exercise my skepticism on this one. Massive boon for big markets, and we all know what happened when Dan Gilbert (who is currently chainsawing a LBJ voodoo doll) intervened on the CP3 to LAL trade after the CBA lockout. This has gotta be in the same ballpark, no? There'll be tantrums, count on it.

    If smaller market teams object, and the league is attempting to put in place an equilibrium between all markets, this could very well turn in to another separation of sides ~ haves and have nots (on an NBA level, that is) ~ and cause a lot of headaches for Stern.

    Will he save himself the trouble and have it burned?
    Completely different situations. The CP3 thing happened because the hornets were a league owned team. This decision is an interpretation of a CBA that has already been agreed upon by both parties. If i had to guess, i'd say the reason it passed is mainly that the guys who are picked up off of waivers are done so due to no fault of their own. So, since they didn't make the choice of leaving a team for FA, why should they be punished by losing their ability to make more money through having early bird rights...
    Last edited by BillyHoyle; Jun 23, 2012 at 10:47.

  5. #35

    Default

    Originally Posted by BillyHoyle
    No, it's not about Dolan wanting to save money. The Knicks (and any other team) that takes advantage of these new early bird rights will drive up the cost of the OTHER players for EVERY team since there is more cap space available. So, it is in David Stern's best interest to appeal this, since the teams are more valuable when the cost of the players is lower.


    psst you just agreed with me.

  6. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    89
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I hope this ruling sticks in the appeal. Greatest thing that happened for Knicks after Linsanity.

  7. #37
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,626
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by Wargames
    Here's hoping the NBAPA has some sort of plan to file tampering charges if the NBA tries to pull this tactic to force teams to use their MLE regardless. Honestly I can't see why the NBA is so dead set that waived players can't keep their bird right. If they had felt so strongly about it they should of crammed it down the players throats like they did everything else this last CBA.
    I hope so because this ruling is time critical. The last word from the union is they don't expect the appeal will be resolved when FA begins on July 1 but maybe they can petition for an expedited appeal so it can done by July 10 which I think is the day FAs can begin signing with teams.

  8. #38
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    6,488
    Rep Power
    28

    Default



    Just as a front came through New York City with heavy, cooling rains to wash away the oppression of the Heat, an arbitrator's decision cleared the way for the Knicks to continue to build and potentially challenge a championship won in Miami the night before.

    Kenneth Dam's ruling in favor of the NBA Players Association stance that Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak do retain their Early Bird Rights was not just a win for the players' union, but also for the Knicks. The move unshackled their ability to be players, and potentially significant players, in free agency this offseason.

    If you're just joining this conversation now, please refer to this blog we posted about the arbitration hearing last week. It will get you up to speed.

    Now let's explain what this means for the Knicks going forward:

    The Knicks can re-sign Lin, a restricted free agent, without having to use their Mid-Level Exception. So if a team attempts to sign Lin to an offer sheet (up to the league average), the Knicks can match that contract without any restrictions. The same goes for Novak.

    If the arbitrator had ruled in favor of the NBA and Lin did not maintain his Early Bird Rights, the Knicks would be extremely limited this offseason. Basically, they would be at the mercy of opposing teams signing Lin to an offer sheet that would cost the Knicks their entire full MLE. That, in turn, would trigger a clause in the NBA which caps non-taxpaying teams that use the full MLE to a limit of $4 million over the luxury tax threshold. So not only would the MLE be gone, but there would be very little room to do anything else, even with the $1.9 million Bi-Annual Exception and veteran's minimum deals.

    This is why the arbitrator's decision is such a huge win for the Knicks.

    By Lin maintaining Early Bird Rights, the team still has both exceptions, the MLE (either $3 million or $5 million) and the BAE, but it is still tricky here. The team will not likely use the full $5 million exception because of that clause we just mentioned that triggers the hard cap.

    [Technically, the Knicks could use the full MLE, but it would be a great risk. Why? Because if they are held at the instituted hard cap, they can not add any more players for the entire 2012-13 season. This means if a player is injured, you can not sign a free agent to a veteran's minimum or even a D-League player to a 10-day contract.]


    Instead, expect the Knicks to go with the $3 million tax-payer MLE, which would not trigger the $4 million apron and hard cap. It would allow them to sign a free agent at $3 million, use the $1.9 million bi-annual to sign another player and still have the luxury of adding as many veteran's minimum contracts as they please throughout the season. Trust me, this matters, especially when a player is amnestied or waived after the trade deadline.

    So how do the Knicks sign Steve Nash with only the $3 million mid-level? The answer is simple: they don't.

    Instead, look for the Knicks to talk to several veteran point guards, from Jason Kidd to Raymond Felton, and possibly former Sixth Man of the Year Lamar Odom or veteran shooter Ray Allen, with the MLE and BAE in their pocket. Will they be enough to make a significant move? That remains to be seen. That depends on whether some of these veterans want to be part of taking on the Miami Heat. They are the new standard in the East and the Knicks know they have to build to beat them.

    This is why I also look forward to seeing if Glen Grunwald and his crafty group can come up with another Tyson Chandler-type plan, using some of the other assets on this team. Consider the value in Landry Fields ($2.6 million qualifyer), Toney Douglas' expiring contract ($2 million) and non-guaranteed money in Dan Gadzuric ($1.3 million), Josh Harrellson ($762,195) and Jerome Jordan ($762, 195).

    If a team is looking to sell and take nothing back, the Knicks have the pieces, plus $3 million in cash considerations, to put on the table. It's not much, but as the Heat showed us, stars can get you far in this league, but a solid supporting cast (Shane Battier, Mike Miller) can get you to the top.

    So as of now, the Knicks believe they can count on bringing back its starting five, plus one major piece of that Mobb Deep bench if Novak is interested. J.R. Smith has until Tuesday to decide whether he will pick up his $2.5 million option for next season or become a free agent. Even if he does not pick up the option and becomes a free agent, the Knicks can re-sign Smith for a 120-percent raise. In my opinion, it's safe to pencil Smith in right now.

    Jared Jeffries was a solid defensive big off the bench and has a place here, too, if he wants to return.

    What this decision means is the Knicks have options they would not have had available had the arbitrator ruled in favor of the NBA. And they're not completely in the clear yet because the NBA announced it planned to appeal the decision by Dam, so the case will be brought to an appellate panel for review.

    The league has to appeal this, not only because it's general practice to appeal when the right to appeal is theirs, but also because if they dismiss this loophole, they set a precedent for the NBPA to challenge several other possible ambiguities in the CBA.

    There is still a little over two weeks before free agents can be officially signed, but the clock is ticking and the NBA knows it is unfair to have a team, and free agents, go into free agency uncertain of status. As for now, the ruling stands and Jeremy Lin's future as a Knick is almost certainly secured.


    _________________________
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    _________________________

    Plenty to digest there. I'm still cautiously reserved that things are going to work out post appeal.

  9. #39
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    6,488
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Originally Posted by BillyHoyle
    Completely different situations. The CP3 thing happened because the hornets were a league owned team. This decision is an interpretation of a CBA that has already been agreed upon by both parties. If i had to guess, i'd say the reason it passed is mainly that the guys who are picked up off of waivers are done so due to no fault of their own. So, since they didn't make the choice of leaving a team for FA, why should they be punished by losing their ability to make more money through having early bird rights...
    I'm speaking more directly in regard to those that will oppose the arbitration. There will be those that go against it, and there voices have to be heard.

    The league has apparently overlooked a number of loopholes from the most recent CBA, and if they allow this to be reconstructed, they'll likely have a lot of work ahead of them to restructure/iron out the fine print. I'm sure they'd prefer not to, and I'm sure there'll be influxes of both good and bad news for Knick fans before a decision is finally made.

  10. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I'm speaking more directly in regard to those that will oppose the arbitration. There will be those that go against it, and there voices have to be heard.

    The league has apparently overlooked a number of loopholes from the most recent CBA, and if they allow this to be reconstructed, they'll likely have a lot of work ahead of them to restructure/iron out the fine print. I'm sure they'd prefer not to, and I'm sure there'll be influxes of both good and bad news for Knick fans before a decision is finally made.
    I'm sure the players union is willing to spend thousands to litigate any issue over an interpretation that has the potential to net its members millions. Likewise, the league will do what it can to save the owners this money. Yeah, the league says they don't want to allow the precedent of challenging the CBA, but really I think this is about the $$$. Do you have any idea what these other possible loopholes are? Honestly, i don't think there are that many (maybe drug testing/fines/social media restrictions) that could possibly come up.

  11. #41
    Superstar Sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    782
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Sorry, but doesn't think ruling also mean that a smaller market team is more likely to retain the player they picked up off waivers instead of a big market team throwing money at them to lure them away?

  12. #42
    ★KNICKS-TAPE★ NYk_Reloaded718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Queenz, NY
    Posts
    3,317
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Commish to appeal ruling on Lin, Novak

    New York Post - By MARC BERMAN
    Posted: 12:42 AM, June 24, 2012

    Apparently, NBA commissioner David Stern wants to be a candidate for most hated man in New York.

    According to a league official, Stern’s plan to appeal the union’s victory in the Jeremy Lin/Steve Novak Bird rights war may carry over into the July 1 start of free agency. That would delay the Knicks’ ability to negotiate for any free agent and create a public-relations nightmare for Stern, whose office is in midtown.

    Tomorrow, both sides will start talks concerning setting up an appeal panel in Stern’s attempt to overturn arbitrator Kenneth Dam’s decision. One possible resolution is having the appeal process occur but still allowing Novak and Lin to have their Bird rights this summer.

    Without Bird rights for Novak, the Knicks have no means of re-signing the 3-point ace. Without Bird rights for Lin, the Knicks would have to use their $5 million mid-level exception, leaving little means to sign another free agent beyond the veteran’s minimum.

    If the union victory stands up, the Knicks will have either a $5 million or $3 million exception to use on a free agent. Union attorney Ron Klempner said he expects the two players to have Bird rights July 1.

    Read more: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Stern is the biggest DOUCHE ever...

    Sterns hit list

    Cp3
    Bobcats
    jim rome
    Knicks
    Last edited by NYk_Reloaded718; Jun 24, 2012 at 10:07.

  13. #43
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    日本
    Posts
    6,488
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Originally Posted by Almost_famous718
    Commish to appeal ruling on Lin, Novak

    New York Post - By MARC BERMAN
    Posted: 12:42 AM, June 24, 2012

    Apparently, NBA commissioner David Stern wants to be a candidate for most hated man in New York.

    According to a league official, Sternís plan to appeal the unionís victory in the Jeremy Lin/Steve Novak Bird rights war may carry over into the July 1 start of free agency. That would delay the Knicksí ability to negotiate for any free agent and create a public-relations nightmare for Stern, whose office is in midtown.

    Tomorrow, both sides will start talks concerning setting up an appeal panel in Sternís attempt to overturn arbitrator Kenneth Damís decision. One possible resolution is having the appeal process occur but still allowing Novak and Lin to have their Bird rights this summer.

    Without Bird rights for Novak, the Knicks have no means of re-signing the 3-point ace. Without Bird rights for Lin, the Knicks would have to use their $5 million mid-level exception, leaving little means to sign another free agent beyond the veteranís minimum.

    If the union victory stands up, the Knicks will have either a $5 million or $3 million exception to use on a free agent. Union attorney Ron Klempner said he expects the two players to have Bird rights July 1.

    Read more: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Stern is the biggest DOUCHE ever...

    Sterns hit list

    Cp3
    Bobcats
    jim rome
    Knicks
    I ****ing knew it.

  14. #44
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    6,978
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Originally Posted by BillyHoyle
    There are 2 issues here...The first is just $$$$...With this new interpretation, teams will be paying more money to players, since they will have more breathing room under the cap. More teams with cap room=larger offers for available talent...So if you were going to evaluate each team as a business, this decision just lowered the value of each team, since now their costs are going up

    The second issue is the big market vs small market thing...Obviously this ruling favors the larger markets, since they are the ones with the money available to go above the cap room. The league is trying everything it can to create balance, and wants to create an environment where small market teams can compete.

    The first issue is correct.... its all about the paper $$$.
    The second issue really favors small market teams more than big market teams when it comes to cheap waive players being picked up by small market teams and retain after a decent season by having their Birds Rights.
    It is 2012. the NBA annual salary cap should be at $65M to $70M....ticket prices has trippled since having a $40M cap in the 90's.
    Small-market teams (Grizzles/OKC/GS) eventually go over the low Salary Cap (under $60M). Plus we watched small-market teams become big-market teams over night....Cavs, OKC, Spurs, Mavs, Magic, Bulls, ect..
    Example......
    If the small-market Bobcats organization had any loyalty in scouts and coaches on their staff the Bobcats wouldve sign an amnesty-player, plus took advantage of signing the market of well rounded minimum-wage role-players (under $1M per) in the 2nd round draft (Landry Fields), and the waive D.League players like Steve Novak, and Jeremy Lin.
    The Bobcats owner Mr. flipomatic MJ wouldve still had his star-role-players (Diaw/S.Jackson/ect.) on the roster to be another small-market team pushing the league towards waive players to retain their Birds Rights.

    The CBA lockout made some right-rules and a lot of wrong-rules to water-down the future of the NBA.
    I wasnt happy with Lebron leaving his hometown Cleveland, but the tandem of Lebron & D.Wade gave the NBA the missing excitement of "Magic & Worthy -vs- Bird & Mchale -vs- MJ & Pippin". Say what u want but no two teammates came half as close to the exciting performance Lebron & D.Wade gave the past two seasons...

  15. #45
    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rotterdam
    Posts
    3,058
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    @BillyHoyle: it's always about the money [and power], that whole lockout story last year could as well be told in one sentence: who gets more $$$. Of course both parties tried to surround their financial wishes with some more basketball related arguments but it was still about the dough.

Similar Threads

  1. Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY
    By KnicksFan4Realz in forum Hangout
    Replies: 296
    Last Post: Jan 23, 2013, 16:16
  2. Knicks "Win rights to J Williams"
    By New New York in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Feb 16, 2012, 18:20
  3. Knicks get rights to Josh Harrellson
    By jpz17 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: Jun 24, 2011, 15:11
  4. Can we kill 2 birds w/ one stone?
    By JazRedGT in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: May 17, 2011, 00:41
  5. Replies: 21
    Last Post: Jan 14, 2010, 12:28

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •