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Thread: Why Knicks Should Trade Amar'e Stoudemire Before the NBA Draft

  1. #16
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    I thought of the Pekovic-Amar'e trade a few months ago and still think it's a great deal for both teams.

    You can read the original posts here: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Amar'e is not a throwaway just yet. If he found a favorable system, guy can drop 25/9 for you next year, I'm sure of it.

    The only thing making Amar'e look bad in New York is Carmelo.

    Minny gets a veteran, they basically cash in on their youth and put that veteran in the prime there, the 'star' that they don't have. Amar'e and Love complement each other because Amar'e doesn't rebound while Love drops the trey buckets, so Amar'e can slash and slam dunk it.

    It makes sense for New York because Pekovic is a hungry animal, he's a beast down there and he's not afraid to do the dirty work. Exactly the type of player that would not clash egos with Carmelo. They would do their own thing, and Pekovic doesn't need a lot of maintenance to get dirty inside.

    Rubio dishes to Amar'e, Love, that's a contender. They should hire D'Antoni then we'll really see what we could have had.

  2. #17
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orangeblobman
    I thought of the Pekovic-Amar'e trade a few months ago and still think it's a great deal for both teams.

    You can read the original posts here: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Amar'e is not a throwaway just yet. If he found a favorable system, guy can drop 25/9 for you next year, I'm sure of it.

    The only thing making Amar'e look bad in New York is Carmelo.

    Minny gets a veteran, they basically cash in on their youth and put that veteran in the prime there, the 'star' that they don't have. Amar'e and Love complement each other because Amar'e doesn't rebound while Love drops the trey buckets, so Amar'e can slash and slam dunk it.


    It makes sense for New York because Pekovic is a hungry animal, he's a beast down there and he's not afraid to do the dirty work. Exactly the type of player that would not clash egos with Carmelo. They would do their own thing, and Pekovic doesn't need a lot of maintenance to get dirty inside.

    Rubio dishes to Amar'e, Love, that's a contender. They should hire D'Antoni then we'll really see what we could have had.
    So, Amare can avg 9 boards... but Amare doesn't rebound? Lol... need I point out your inconsistencies?

    And...

    We who?

    "L"

  3. #18
    Member gmf1369's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sage
    Finding a team that will deal would be the issue. I'd be all for getting rid of him and freeing up that cap, but I can't imagine a team wanting him.
    Teams like Charlotte and Detroit both have players that they want to move, and they be lying if they said otherwise...

    Tyrus Thomas way overpaid or in the wrong situation in Charlotte.
    If Bobcats took Amar'e he would sell tickets, they have no identity with Amar'e he could give them one. Its better alternative then what they have now.

    In Detroit, between Charlie Villaneuva & Rodney Stuckey both are on the hot seat, if the right offer came along Pistons management might have to consider it. Knicks would take these two players from Detroit: Rodney Stuckey & Tayshaun Prince. Now Detroit can use their amnesty clause on Charlie Villaneuva, clear up some cap space. Everyone knows Detroit is rebuilding to have a Veteran like Amar'e with young players Knight & Monroe they have a nucleus to work with...

    We can speculate to we are blue in the face. It comes down to management and if they actually believe that there is a way to gel or mesh Stat & Melo together. But the two players have to be willing to work together to make that happen, is highly unlikely...

  4. #19
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    He sucks at boxing out and rebounding, but his career average is 8-9, he doesn't rebound as much as you think he should.

  5. #20
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
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    I honestly believe that STAT will come back this year to typical form. Will he average 11+ boards a game? Not with Tyson Chandler, Melo, and Landry "best rebounding guard" Fields surrounding him. The numbers just aren't there and that's not his purpose.

    Will STAT average 25+ points?? I don't see it happening. Melo is ball dominant and shoots a lot. Lin also shoots a lot. Clean up crew will be mostly Tyson and Fields.

    STAT will be needed to hit the midrange and do work in the post. With him working out with The Dream ALONG SIDE of Tyson I think they can get him working in the paint and work out the spacing issues that we saw last year. This will help get him more shots and boards but in the end I think the best we should be getting is around 22/8 from the 4 spot AND better defense then the past 2 years.

    People are saying that Melo and STAT aren't meshing, when personally I see it as TC and STAT needing to operate in the same space. Melo can be perimeter/mid-range floor space while both are in the block. Conversely you can have STAT in the high post, and Melo on the low block, even opposite sides. High PR for STAT is there, Melo for the dump off, TC for the put-backs. Put melo and STAT on the same side and work the two man game from the corner for a sealed off PnR to the baseline.

    I would in-fact argue that having these assets could allow for them to be used in their most versatile and effective ranges. The problem was D'antoni's stubbornness and system which was ineffective in utilizing Melo and Tyson. We saw Woodson come in and for that first 7 games you saw what STAT could do in the "woodson game". Melo came back but operated in the way he and woodson were more used to. But I think with a full offseason of work and a training camp with their coach these guys can find a way to make this all work. The key will be Lin who will have to manage all of these players and spacings on the fly.

    It would be better to have a vet floor spacing PG to help Lin figure this out (Nash) but even without that, Lin is a bright guy and should be able to figure it all out early in the season.

    I think the hopes should be very high with this group. I'm done buying into the group-think that ESPN has shoved down our throats that because Melo and STAT are superstars they can't co-exist. This team did as well as OKC did against the Heat. that was without a training camp, key injuries, a mid-season coaching change and a mid and end season PG change. This is the Knicks year to bring it all together. After this season then if you want to move STAT it will be much easier and we will be able to say whether or not the MELO/STAT/TC experiment succeeded.

  6. #21
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    I honestly believe that STAT will come back this year to typical form. Will he average 11+ boards a game? Not with Tyson Chandler, Melo, and Landry "best rebounding guard" Fields surrounding him. The numbers just aren't there and that's not his purpose.

    Will STAT average 25+ points?? I don't see it happening. Melo is ball dominant and shoots a lot. Lin also shoots a lot. Clean up crew will be mostly Tyson and Fields.

    STAT will be needed to hit the midrange and do work in the post. With him working out with The Dream ALONG SIDE of Tyson I think they can get him working in the paint and work out the spacing issues that we saw last year. This will help get him more shots and boards but in the end I think the best we should be getting is around 22/8 from the 4 spot AND better defense then the past 2 years.

    People are saying that Melo and STAT aren't meshing, when personally I see it as TC and STAT needing to operate in the same space. Melo can be perimeter/mid-range floor space while both are in the block. Conversely you can have STAT in the high post, and Melo on the low block, even opposite sides. High PR for STAT is there, Melo for the dump off, TC for the put-backs. Put melo and STAT on the same side and work the two man game from the corner for a sealed off PnR to the baseline.

    I would in-fact argue that having these assets could allow for them to be used in their most versatile and effective ranges. The problem was D'antoni's stubbornness and system which was ineffective in utilizing Melo and Tyson. We saw Woodson come in and for that first 7 games you saw what STAT could do in the "woodson game". Melo came back but operated in the way he and woodson were more used to. But I think with a full offseason of work and a training camp with their coach these guys can find a way to make this all work. The key will be Lin who will have to manage all of these players and spacings on the fly.

    It would be better to have a vet floor spacing PG to help Lin figure this out (Nash) but even without that, Lin is a bright guy and should be able to figure it all out early in the season.

    I think the hopes should be very high with this group. I'm done buying into the group-think that ESPN has shoved down our throats that because Melo and STAT are superstars they can't co-exist. This team did as well as OKC did against the Heat. that was without a training camp, key injuries, a mid-season coaching change and a mid and end season PG change. This is the Knicks year to bring it all together. After this season then if you want to move STAT it will be much easier and we will be able to say whether or not the MELO/STAT/TC experiment succeeded.
    I can't disagree with anything you said here. I never said that STAT and Melo don't mesh, I just don't want STAT running high PnRs that renders Melo a catch and shoot, floor spacer. But if there's some 2-man game between the two of them, and if they can run it strong side, and let others work off the action on the weak side, as opposed to at the top of the key every time, then the offense will be fine. I'm not 100% convinced that STAT or Tyson will develop the footwork needed for an extensive post game, but some hook shots could help.

    STAT's rebounding and defense needs to come along tho. Yea, he has guys around him who can eat up the boards as well (and Landry is a small forward playing 2-guard, he's not a tall 2, he's a 3 playing 2) but that's not the issue. You can see it in games, STAT is allergic to boxing ANYONE out, and his second effort isn't where it needs to be. Instead of just looking at the number on the screen, or paper, how about looking back on the games, and try to remember how many instances can you clearly recall, where STAT's effort on the boards (positioning, boxing out, second effort, hustle, etc.) lead to a NYK rebound, regardless of who brought it down. Tyson obviously led in that category, and Melo has a devastating second jump where he gives multiple efforts. If it's STAT down there, and not one of those two, we need that from him.

    I won't weigh that against him as much as the offense and defense tho. If he's not a high motor, multiple effort guy....fine. But we're going to need a lot from him for this team to succeed. He's not gonna be the 2010-11 Stoudemire, we don't need that guy, we just need competent offense, some semblance of defense, and if you're not gonna grab the board....keep it alive for someone else, or at the very least...box someone out for crying out loud.

    Because, like I said time and time again....if we can fleece someone into giving us everything just described, for considerably less, without having to persuade the guy to play that way? What's the downside, if we're in it for the team?

    I mean, the common arguments of: "chemistry", oh more changes, more trades, roster turnover, etc. (and there's some legitimacy to them, I'm not completely disregarding them) aside...and you're a professional basketball player, and I say you can have a teammate who crashes the boards like if he doesn't, he loses every single thing he owns; he runs the floor like he's pissed off; on offense, he runs into the paint, moves his man from his spot...cause you know....get the **** off of his spot, he owns it...seals him, throws his hand up. If he's in the paint too long, he gets outta there to avoid the 3-sec call, goes back to his spot -MOVE- it's his spot, the hand goes up again. If you shoot the ball and miss, he attacks the boards...cause you know...he has to.

    You'd say you don't want to play with that guy on your side? The argument for having two monsters down low, should not be, "why make more moves?"

    Maybe it would be a bit premature in trying to aggressively move STAT now, but it should only be considered premature if you have tangible reasons for keeping him. "Believing" that he'll come back and return to form, over acquiring someone who doesn't need to return to form to give your starting 5 what it needs...I dunno.

  7. #22
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Off-topic:

    David Kahn and Minny offered Derrick Williams to the Bobcats for the #2 pick. Kahn is so used to accepting bad deals, that when he's dead serious and sincere...it's an atrocious move, and he gets shot down before he can finish the sentence.


    TAKE. ADVANTAGE. OF. THIS. DUMB-DUMB.

  8. #23
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Off-topic:

    David Kahn and Minny offered Derrick Williams to the Bobcats for the #2 pick. Kahn is so used to accepting bad deals, that when he's dead serious and sincere...it's an atrocious move, and he gets shot down before he can finish the sentence.


    TAKE. ADVANTAGE. OF. THIS. DUMB-DUMB.
    bobcats should of took that deal and ran with it Derrick Williams is a solid player.

  9. #24
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    bobcats should of took that deal and ran with it Derrick Williams is a solid player.
    Derrick is absolutely a solid player. You don't trade the #2 overall pick for a solid player and nothing else. A solid player and a pick, maybe. Two first round picks, possibly.

    A solid player? Might as well draft your own.

    If last year's #2 overall pick is being offered for this year's 2nd pick, so that team can get a do-over. Why help them?

    Derrick Williams in no more a sure thing than T-rob, or Bradley Beal.

    Edit: Plus you'd be opting for taking a player that came off the bench, and is one year closer to his qualifying offer, and subsequently free agency (which means re-upping him for probably triple his slotted rookie deal), when you can potentially draft a player of equal, or greater talent, and 4 full years before we even get to the qualifying offer.

    That would be right in Mike's wheelhouse of dumb as **** draft day moves. But he avoided this one.
    Last edited by nuckles2k2; Jun 28, 2012 at 17:54.

  10. #25

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    STAT has to go. Bottom line. Facts hurt.

  11. #26
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    I'm against moving STAT but I wanna play

    STAT to Minnesota for Martell Webster, Anthony Randolph(S&T) and Michael Beasley(S&T)

    STAT to Chicago for Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver

    STAT to Utah for Paul Millsap and Devin Harris

  12. #27
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Yes the NBA is Rigged
    STAT won't be moved. Bottom line. Facts hurt.
    There you go, fixed.

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