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Thread: Sign and Trade Possibilities

  1. #31
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Default I don't do too good to be true.

    Originally Posted by ronoranina


    The above is how I'd hope things could play out if we were to get Nash.

    I think as a floor general he'd keep the ball out of the black hole that is Melo's hands so much. This would be a good thing. Ball movement suffers when Melo has free reign to operate. Having Nash on the team to direct traffic would cure this.
    I agree, but only theoretically.

    There are, of course, some negatives (potential or otherwise) to take on board.

    Lin and Melo shared a 60%+ ball use average last season without even playing together for extended periods of time. The 2 of them played their best ball in the absence of the other: Linsanity and Melo's April to remember. Both were best when used as the focal, and that was only ultimately successful for each individual when the other was injured.

    Adding Nash to that total will see their games affected, and we know full well how Melo deals with not being the focal ~ he gets coaches fired.

    QUESTIONS:

    ● Is a 38 year old Nash so good that he can make this work?

    ● How much does Nash really have left?

    ● Is Melo prepared to step back and let Nash take control? Rhetorical.

    ● Is Lin ready to take a step back? Why should he re-sign with the Knicks if they're looking to supplant him right when he's ready to ascend?

    ● And where does Amar'e fit in to the fray with everyone's touches dipping? That became an issue with the addition of Melo alone.

    ● Will the Knicks remain a top 10 defensive team with Nash on board?

    ● Where does Shump fit back in to the line up? He'll need to rest anyway, I suppose.

    ● How does this effect Woodson's M.O going in to the season?

    ● How would Lin feel about having his best buddy traded for someone that will play Lin's position?

    Pop that in your pipe!

    If there's anyone who can stem the flow of egos, it's the best passer in the world, Steve Nash.

    But even he will have his work cut out for him looking to appease Melo, Lin and Stoudemire.

    I don't do too good to be true. Especially when Melo's involved.

    Sorry.


    _________________________________

    Having said that, I still seriously doubt if this "dream come true" scenario with the Fields, Douglas, Gadzuric, Jordan and a $3M exception proposal for Steve Nash (one of the most lopsided S&Ts in history) will make it past tomorrow, as other teams will counter it with far more appealing offers for Phoenix/more appealing offers for Nash alone.

  2. #32
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    Lin and Nash do no co-exist. If they try to keep both other players will have to be moved arguably for pennies.

  3. #33
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    Lin and Nash do no co-exist. If they try to keep both other players will have to be moved arguably for pennies.
    Why would they not co-exist? Two guys with court vision and good passers can't co-exist? I thought the selfish players that don't like passing ala Melo and Iverson or Melo and Amare are the ones that can't co-exist

    If you think they can't because of who will ball handle, well i don't think anyone will argue with that, the answer is obviously Nash 1st and then Lin 2nd but Lin can be more of a scorer with Nash on the team.

    So explain how they can't co exist. Please.

  4. #34
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Why would they not co-exist? Two guys with court vision and good passers can't co-exist? I thought the selfish players that don't like passing ala Melo and Iverson or Melo and Amare are the ones that can't co-exist

    If you think they can't because of who will ball handle, well i don't think anyone will argue with that, the answer is obviously Nash 1st and then Lin 2nd but Lin can be more of a scorer with Nash on the team.

    So explain how they can't co exist. Please.
    I think Nash being a mentor for Lin would have been nice but if we sign Nash I doubt Lin would want to return

  5. #35
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    I think Nash being a mentor for Lin would have been nice but if we sign Nash I doubt Lin would want to return
    I have had premonitions of Lin in a Raptors jersey...kind of weird.

  6. #36
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    As much as I love Nash. I love Lin more.

    Give me Kidd because he is willing to come off the bench and can start as well if needed. He will take less money as well

    Use a sign and trade on a legit shooting guard like OJ Mayo. or something.

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Look I like Nash but adding him, puts Lin on the bench then in 2 or 3 years when Nash is gone, Melo is still here Lin is back as a starter hurting his morale, what is both Lin and Nash sign 3 year deals and Nash retires and Lin opts to sing elsewhere because we benched him for Nash now we have no PG. Adding a vet who is comfortable playing behind our PG is a better idea then adding one to replace him for now. Its like in football when the Broncos added Manning, you think they were gonna keep Tebow, NO

    If we add Nash it could hurt us in the long run. Also adding him on 10mil per and Lin getting a back loaded deal will put us at like 80mil+ between 5 guys plus Shumpert's extension and JR's likely extension

    If we get Nash I'll be happy we added a great talent its just the negatives are very very risky
    Wow, a great post from a person who follows Melo so much. What you said is really true. Plus 1 Rep to you

    Basically, it's like what CA7 said.

    If you think you can win a championship with Nash within 2/3 years, take him.
    If you want to grow Lin into a top 5 PG and go the safer long term plan route, don't sign Nash.

    It's not about Lin or Nash, it's more about short-term vs long-term.

  8. #38
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    I have had premonitions of Lin in a Raptors jersey...kind of weird.
    Me too even though we'd likely match imagine having all that money tied up into a starter and a back up, for me its one or the other. I choose Lin

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by CA7
    Me too even though we'd likely match imagine having all that money tied up into a starter and a back up, for me its one or the other. I choose Lin
    Exactly. We have to think about something we need more, like a legit shooting guard.

    Shumpert is awesome but he could use another year or two coming off the bench before he is the answer to be a starter. Hes just not quite ready yet imo. And Fields is a backup 3, his jumper is dead.

  10. #40
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    How about Rudy Fernandez if we lose JR Smith

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    Nash & Lin's transition-game does not fit a saving-energy 36 minutes of playingtime Carmelo Anthony (to damn slow getting back on offense/defense) .... thats why the Knicks W.Chandler, Harrington, and Gallo all had 30 point games vs Melo's Denver Nuggets.

    Lin has not been happy playin the "ISO-Melo-offense", Lin's big advantage is controllin the tempo with a speedy first step dribble to draw several defenders havin great floor vision to pass off his dribble.
    And a 40 year ole Nash gain fame in Dallas/Phoenix by having teammates beat him down on the offensive-end before oponents could setup their defense.

    I would rather go cheap at getting PG-Arron Brooks & SG-Terrence Williams by locking them down with a 4 year contract, rather than go after a halfcourt PG-Kyle Lowry who will only see Melo & JR.Smith on offense.

    Lin & Fields are a decent starting backcourt, the more playingtime the two-guards receive the more creative their performance becomes in the backcourt.
    Iman Shumpert shouldve never been a STARTER in his rookie season....to much stress/pressure on a rookie who started the season being a consistent poor decision-making guard in the backcourt to where the name (Shump-performance) was deleted from the list of candidates to the rookie All-Star game. Our coaches and veteran players hold a lot of the weight n blame for Shump's 2nd rip in his ACL....Shump playingtime shouldve stayed coming-off the bench as a strong-finisher when we had a healthy Landry Fields who adapt to the starters role with athleticism, energy, and wisdom of oponents starting lineup.

    If Shump return healthy next season before the February deadline, then something was fish fish fishy about lastseason .. Stat & Lin going down at the sametime, making Davis & Shump our backcourt starters so JR.Smith gets the 6th man slot, and the media get off of Melo back for not being able to co-exist with Lin-Sanity, or Stat, while Melo and company beat mediocre teams at the end of the season.

  12. #42
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Why would they not co-exist? Two guys with court vision and good passers can't co-exist? I thought the selfish players that don't like passing ala Melo and Iverson or Melo and Amare are the ones that can't co-exist

    If you think they can't because of who will ball handle, well i don't think anyone will argue with that, the answer is obviously Nash 1st and then Lin 2nd but Lin can be more of a scorer with Nash on the team.

    So explain how they can't co exist. Please.
    Cap Space. I was talking about Cap Space. If the Knicks get Nash for $10 Million and then decide to sign Lin (who from all signs Toronto will immediately zero in on once Nash is off the table) regardless if he is attached to a poison Pill Contract 6 players alone will have us in the Luxury tax.

    It will be the same scenario the Knicks were facing prior to them winning the arbitration trial. Letting players go not because they were offered to much, but because they were offered anything at all. Thats why I said players would have to be moved for Pennies and the knicks would once again be forced to do all their negotiations from a clear point of weakness.

  13. #43
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    Nash is 38 years old. He is an injury away from retiring. No matter how good he is that will always hang above his head. It's just a matter of time. Also, I would hate to give Lin added pressure to compete for a starting role with Nash. It's ridiculous and will only hurt his game. I say we get a good pg willing to come off the bench and a shooting guard (hopefully jesus shuttlesworth).

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by NYNYK
    Nash is 38 years old. He is an injury away from retiring. No matter how good he is that will always hang above his head. It's just a matter of time. Also, I would hate to give Lin added pressure to compete for a starting role with Nash. It's ridiculous and will only hurt his game. I say we get a good pg willing to come off the bench and a shooting guard (hopefully jesus shuttlesworth).
    I agree the knicks just need to Re-Tool and build cohesion and depth. That's what really hurt them these last few years in the play offs. No Cohesion on the roster, No Depth, and it use to be bad coaching. Now the knicks have a decent coach, they just need to have a training camp and add depth to their guard positions and see if they can get a decent center to back Tyson Chandler.

    Going for Nash over Lin is basically short term vs Long Term

    The Heat aren't unbeatable their big three are already showing signs of breaking down and the Thunder just doubled down on a below average coach and that roster will be in transition soon as well.

    Also quick question is OJ Mayo just that much of a headcase that no one is really pursuing him?

  15. #45
    Scoring Champ CA7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Nash & Lin's transition-game does not fit a saving-energy 36 minutes of playingtime Carmelo Anthony (to damn slow getting back on offense/defense) .... thats why the Knicks W.Chandler, Harrington, and Gallo all had 30 point games vs Melo's Denver Nuggets.

    Lin has not been happy playin the "ISO-Melo-offense", Lin's big advantage is controllin the tempo with a speedy first step dribble to draw several defenders havin great floor vision to pass off his dribble.
    And a 40 year ole Nash gain fame in Dallas/Phoenix by having teammates beat him down on the offensive-end before oponents could setup their defense.

    I would rather go cheap at getting PG-Arron Brooks & SG-Terrence Williams by locking them down with a 4 year contract, rather than go after a halfcourt PG-Kyle Lowry who will only see Melo & JR.Smith on offense.

    Lin & Fields are a decent starting backcourt, the more playingtime the two-guards receive the more creative their performance becomes in the backcourt.
    Iman Shumpert shouldve never been a STARTER in his rookie season....to much stress/pressure on a rookie who started the season being a consistent poor decision-making guard in the backcourt to where the name (Shump-performance) was deleted from the list of candidates to the rookie All-Star game. Our coaches and veteran players hold a lot of the weight n blame for Shump's 2nd rip in his ACL....Shump playingtime shouldve stayed coming-off the bench as a strong-finisher when we had a healthy Landry Fields who adapt to the starters role with athleticism, energy, and wisdom of oponents starting lineup.

    If Shump return healthy next season before the February deadline, then something was fish fish fishy about lastseason .. Stat & Lin going down at the sametime, making Davis & Shump our backcourt starters so JR.Smith gets the 6th man slot, and the media get off of Melo back for not being able to co-exist with Lin-Sanity, or Stat, while Melo and company beat mediocre teams at the end of the season.
    Lin went out March 24th vs Detroit

    Knicks went on to beat

    Bucks- Almost playoff tem
    Magic- playoff team
    Cavaliers
    Magic- playoff team
    Bulls- playoff team
    Bucks- almost playoff team
    Wizards
    Celtics- playoff team ECF 7 Games
    Nets
    Hawks- playoff team
    Clippers- playoff team
    Bobcats- according to Metro they were a playoff caliber team

    8/12 wins came against teams that finish with a chance to make the playoffs or made the playoffs

    Linsanity

    Knicks beat

    Nets
    Jazz- playoff team, swept
    Wizards
    Lakers- playoff team
    Wolves
    Raptors
    Kings
    Mavericks- playoff team, swept

    3/8 wins vs playoff caliber teams

    37.5% wins vs top competition for Linsanity, 75% wins vs top competition for Melo Madness

    we could do this if you want Kiya
    Last edited by CA7; Jul 03, 2012 at 02:42.

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