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Thread: Shawne Williams vs. Novak

  1. #16
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    We can't forget about the fact that Shawne Williams shot 24.1% from beyond the arc last year. Granted he only played 25 games, but it begs the question as to whether or not he was just streaky when it came to shooting.

    Novak, at least, we know is an excellent shooter. I think we have the pieces on defense to make up for Novak's lack of defense, especially if we retain Jared Jeffries, but...

  2. #17
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Well lets revisit this!

    Everyone felt Novak was the obvious choice...yet Novak struggled this year shooting the ball thus giving us nothing!

    We need more 2 way players and Novak is far from that... Didn't see then this Defensive potential in Novak everyone kept mentioning Novak had;certainly didn't show this year

    Bring this back up because Williams is slated to workout w us to audition for a spot
    Last edited by New New York; Jun 22, 2013 at 16:30.

  3. #18
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    I don't want either

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    Nein, Mann! Lercher's Avatar
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    I thought we had enough of low IQ players that tend to get themselves into trouble? Not only have we a pot-addicted 6th man of the year, but now we're inviting a guy who not longer than a year ago got busted for dealing codeine to a workout camp? Seriously Grunwald?

  5. #20
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    Nyk Logo How well will Knicks GM Grunwald do this offseason???

    Originally Posted by New New York
    Well lets revisit this!

    Everyone felt Novak was the obvious choice...yet Novak struggled this year shooting the ball thus giving us nothing!

    We need more 2 way players and Novak is far from that... Didn't see then this Defensive potential in Novak everyone kept mentioning Novak had;certainly didn't show this year

    Bring this back up because Williams is slated to workout w us to audition for a spot

    Shawn Williams perimeter shooting worked out well when our rotation of forwards were Amare, Gallo, W.Chandler.
    Steve Novak perimeter shooting worked out well when we had a uptempo transition rotation with Lin running the point.
    It would b a nice asset to have Both perimeter shooting Forwards (Novak & Shawn) on our roster next season, so Felton & Shump could always have the option of kicking the ball out on the perimeter.
    As for Novak & Shawn defensive-effort both box-out well for the defensive-rebound for a grade-C+ on team-defense, however they are not shot-blockers or man to man defenders on oponents thats always using well formed screens & picks for their offense .. that is HC Woodson job to teach team-defensive-switches in the paint to "Chandler, Amare, and Melo" so Copeland, Novak, Shawn, and a backup center could follow suit.
    Example: how well did Pacers Hibbert's, and Spurs Duncan's teammates work defensive-switches so well to where Hibbert & Duncan stayed in the paint area for 20 seconds on the defensive-end of the court???
    The Spurs & Pacers had a grade A+ defensive team.

    To stop all the silly rumors of Knicks players jumping-ship to the next team in the offseason ....
    As an old Knicks Fan since GM Chekkett, all of our organization GM's had a bad-bad habit of waiting for the final days of the offseason to resign our decent role-players. It does not matter if our role-players work-out at our practice facility all summer long their agents dont get a call from our Knicks GM untill a week before training-camp open. Every Knicks GM for the last 30 years has always been to damn busy over-paying so-call star players double their worth during the offseason, by putting everything in one basket for a quick-fix winning season that never work (Isiah Thomas was not the only SUCKER GM we had) .... the reason why HC Hubie Brown, Pat Riley, and JVG QUIT on the Knicks organization.
    I recall in 2009 offseason our Fan Favorite FA David Lee, and two time winner of Dunk contest FA little Nate waiting until the week of training camp to b resign to the Knicks .. now that is PURE BULLSH..... if u ask me .. Nothing Change!!!

    Shawn Williams and Jeremy Lin's agents waited throughout the entire offseason for a call from Knicks GM that was never made .. sad sad sad

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    We can't forget about the fact that Shawne Williams shot 24.1% from beyond the arc last year. Granted he only played 25 games, but it begs the question as to whether or not he was just streaky when it came to shooting.

    Novak, at least, we know is an excellent shooter. I think we have the pieces on defense to make up for Novak's lack of defense, especially if we retain Jared Jeffries, but...
    Shawne Williams can JJ be far behind. I hope the Knicks can upgrade the talent next year rather than take on guys like Williams and Jeffries.

  7. #22
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    We all know FA Kenyon Martin & FA Copeland are a must resign this offseason.

    Will we resign both?
    How long after July 1st. will it take Grunwald to resign K-Mart & Copeland?

    As for our 6th-man of the year FF..em we damn sure dont need him next season, we gave him the same super-star greenlight-special on offense as Lebron, Durant, D.Wade, Westbrook, Pierce, Parker, Harding, and Steph Curry had this season, and all he did was dribble dribble dribble to shoot 15 to 18 jumpshots per game at 39%, going to the foul line every other game, plus his selfishness of 2 dimes per never gelled with any teammate on either side of the court.

    The 2012-13 6th-man of the year had to be the worst in NBA history if the two top candidates are no-defense, no inside scoring, dribble-dribble jumpshot only Crawful & JR.smith...

  8. #23
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    are u saying we needed cope more the jr smith???or k mart more then jr smith??? funny thing is cope had no defense or inside scoring either

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by knicksince 93
    are u saying we needed cope more the jr smith???or k mart more then jr smith??? funny thing is cope had no defense or inside scoring either
    Those are good questions. Right now I'd have to say the default starting 5 is Melo, Amare, Ty, Shump and Ray. Bench is Prigs, Cope and KMart (and I guess Camby - I think he got a 2 year deal).

    Questionable re-signs: JR and Novak. I think by now we know what these guys can and cannot do. Can we do better?

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    I don't really like neither, but if I had to choose it would be "Williams". Only because he brings a little bit more to the table. Novak had one good year with us and sucked extremely hard this year, and don't forget that 3pt all star weekend contest. He's very limited and when he isn't on you almost want to cry watching him out there. His services can be replaced easily.

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by TheScowl
    Those are good questions. Right now I'd have to say the default starting 5 is Melo, Amare, Ty, Shump and Ray. Bench is Prigs, Cope and KMart (and I guess Camby - I think he got a 2 year deal).

    Questionable re-signs: JR and Novak. I think by now we know what these guys can and cannot do. Can we do better?
    Bingo! For the right price both JR and Novak are valuable...Novak and his agent pimped The Knicks! aside from Amare he stands as our most difficult player to move and he still has a few more years on his deal; I mean even Camby has a nice buyout that basically makes his deal expiring this year.


    So, my biggest concern is we pay too much for JR and he is a player bound to our team for better or worst.

    On a good day Smith is a 10 million dollar a year player...on a bad day he's minimum wadge, how do you gauge his market value? His agent wants The Knicks to think of the good times, yet sadly for him was not the last thing we saw out of him!

    If we give him 5 million or more (not sure if thats even possible under new CBA) then it can't be guaranteed for more than 2 years....he and his agent may scoff at this, yet I dare them to find something better!

    What scares me is he and Woody's relationship and Woody's loyalty to him, while commendable, it does not make smart business all the time.

    We played Lin smart and Novak dead wrong (I suppose that's better than vice versa) but we simply can't afford mistakes with salaries because they cripple us in the off season. I liken them to TO's and Offensive rebounds given up.

  12. #27
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    Williams had one average NBA season and the rest were terrible. He's not NBA material. Neither is Quincy Douby. I don't know if the Knicks are taking this NBA Title hunt seriously because they're wasting time with E level talented players.

    A level = LeBron/CP3/Durant/Melo
    B level = George/Gasol/Horford/Curry
    C+ level = Rubio/Shumpert/MKG/Sanders
    C level = Felton/Redick/Delfino/Okafor
    D+ level = Shved/Young/Evans/Anderson

    D level = Novak, Haddadi, Anthony Carter...

    Williams and Douby don't even qualify for D level guys...why are we downgrading? Chris Smith competes with these bums.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Williams had one average NBA season and the rest were terrible. He's not NBA material. Neither is Quincy Douby. I don't know if the Knicks are taking this NBA Title hunt seriously because they're wasting time with E level talented players.

    A level = LeBron/CP3/Durant/Melo
    B level = George/Gasol/Horford/Curry
    C+ level = Rubio/Shumpert/MKG/Sanders
    C level = Felton/Redick/Delfino/Okafor
    D+ level = Shved/Young/Evans/Anderson

    D level = Novak, Haddadi, Anthony Carter...

    Williams and Douby don't even qualify for D level guys...why are we downgrading? Chris Smith competes with these bums.
    Shump is definetly better than C+...albeit not currently the A quality most Knick fans have him at now, but for sure higher than a C+ just off his D alone....but we'll save that for another friendly Knick debate...now to the issue at hand!

    "WHY NOT" IS THE NAME OF THE GAME!!!!!!


    Frankly we can't afford top tier talent, so we need to try to turn something out of nothing. This is what the new CBA has forced teams like us who are over the cap to revert to!

    Look both Prigioni and Copeland would have made your below D level list before last season and they became C players (if you will) so that's what we have to do!

    Rookies and cheap Free Agents are at a all time high in terms of demands.

    Look if Williams or Douby (however you spell dudes name) were worth anything then they would not be working out for us but rather would be preparing negotiating deals July 1st....expect workouts from more lowly players in the coming months

    Gotta find that diamond in the rough!

    Bulls fans probably did not think much of Nate Robinson signing yet he was a difference maker

    Spurs fans probably thought of Danny Green as just a filler

    Eddy Curry got an audition with San Antonio when we all knew that Ernie Johnson had more of a chance to make the team, but as a GM you gotta give it a shot even though Greg Popovich and Eddy Curry would mix like a broke dude and a gold digger!

    What's the worst that happens? Williams gets an invite to camp maybe a non-guaranteed minimum deal and is either waived or cut before season starts... absolute best case he gives us what he did under Dantoni; solid 3 pt shooting and sound D...

    Look Earl Barron seems to always be on our team's radar despite never giving us anything relevant, Williams at least was a factor in getting us back to the playoffs, so why not!

  14. #29
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    Shumpert will be a B level player soon, but right now let's be realistic. He only has 80 NBA under his belt and is coming into form. Shumpert is easily C+, with his potential being B or even maybe B+ level.

    The idea of us being unable to afford top tier talent doesn't mean we have to acquire the lowest talent available in the NBA.

    Loser mentality right there.

    There are guys like Aaron Brooks and Francisco Garcia who are free agents and will look for a roster spot, both guys superior to Douby and Williams.

    The CBA doesn't force us to sign scrubs. Every season in the NBA there are always free agents available. There are only 15 roster spots on an NBA team, a lot of those spots will be taken by new rookies entering the league. The pool of talent is always quality and theres no EXCUSE to sign a guy like Douby or Shawne Williams who have no business being in the NBA. Douby hasn't been in the NBA since 2008 and he was a scrub back then. A 3pt specialist who shoots 31%. He's the worst.

    He went nut in China and all of a sudden he deserves to take Jason Kidd's spot? That's a joke. We don't have enough PASSERS and Ball distributors on this roster to have Douby play. Too many guys fighting for the ball. Douby is a 6"1 SG in reality with limited PG skills and inability to run an offense. At least Nate Robinson can distribute the ball.

    Melo - scorer
    Smith - scorer
    Amare - scorer
    Chandler - can't pass the ball even if his life was on the line
    Shumpert - solid passer, but more a scorer
    Copeland - scorer

    Prigioni is the only guy on this team who's pass oriented.

    How does Douby fit? Do you ever think before you post?

    Nate Robinson has always been a player, the Rose injury showcased what Robinson has always done when he gets 30 minutes of time.
    If you follow NBA scouting, Danny Green has always been a good player especially defensively. Him moving around from Cleveland to San Antonio is just bad management by the Cavs. Danny Green is one of LeBron's favorite players. Comparing them to NBA scrubs and journey men just makes you really stupid.

  15. #30
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    Not every player is a diamond in the rough...I really hate when fans think any random Joe can come in and become Jeremy Lin. Douby and Williams already showed what they're capable of in the NBA and over seas and it isn't much. Guys like Lin, Robinson, Green always had production, skill and talent. It was just a matter of putting them in the right situation.

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