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Thread: The five (5) guard tandem of...

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Default The five (5) guard tandem of...

    *Felt-Kidd-Prigioni-Shump-Smith (possibly)-TD (reluctantly) presents a very strong backcourt.

    There includes variations of:

    1. Ball Handling
    2. Shooting (both driving and 3's)
    3. Defense
    4. Leadership
    5. Speed
    6. Passing/Floor vision
    7. Athleticism
    8. Clutchness

    What we need with this group is:

    -For Felton and Kidd to play together consisently. I'll go as far (and on the record) as to say one will get major minutes at SG seeing as shump is hurt, Kidd can shoot the 3, and Lin was a SG and can dribble-penetrate/drive. JR is also versatile.

    -The rotation and match-up game is on Woodson he must explore this.

    -High on the priority list must be to have Kidd help coach-up Lin.

    *TD must get in where he fits in
    *Glad there is no need to consider Laundry folds

    I said having a cheap vet come in to coach is far-fetched unless he already won... Kidd fits the bill. Our entire season
    And years to come rests on Felton progressing to become one of the best.

    *AGAIN WE HAVE THE BEST TRIO OF PG's IN THE GAME.
    Last edited by Red; Nov 20, 2012 at 08:20. Reason: *Updated 11/20

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Nice thread, Red.

    I can feel your anticipation in my loins. Not really. Maybe a portion.

    Lin and Kidd in the back-court will be intriguing. It's basically a given 'til Shump's a month or 2 (perhaps more) returned. I see Kidd most likely at the 2. Think of the ball movement.......*squirt*

    Woody absolutely has his work cut out for him. Shame he spent wasted time on Fields' shot this off-season. Even if Fields wasn't offered that mental contract it still would have been a waste.

    I think TD will most likely be traded to Dallas + cash to absorb his $2M. Why we ever extended him I'll never know.

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    Media

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    Ignited by having Jason Kidd agree to join their roster and become Lin’s mentor, the Knicks can’t wait to get Lin back.
    “He’s their guy,’’ one NBA official debriefed on the Knicks’ strategy said. “They’ll match.’’

    Knicks general manager Glen Grunwald will keep his word as he has said in every interview Lin would be back next season, pointing out he held the cards since he could match any offer. In fact, the belief is even the Rockets know the Knicks will match, but they could gain from sharing the pie of luxury-tax escrow money with other non-taxpaying teams.

    With Jason Kidd aboard, the Knicks see him and Lin occasionally sharing the backcourt. Coach Mike Woodson, who visited Lin in California in a recruiting pitch in June, said Lin would start next season, but all bets are off now.

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    Cool

    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Nice thread, Red.

    I can feel your anticipation in my loins. Not really. Maybe a portion.

    Lin and Kidd in the back-court will be intriguing. It's basically a given 'til Shump's a month or 2 (perhaps more) returned. I see Kidd most likely at the 2. Think of the ball movement.......*squirt*

    Woody absolutely has his work cut out for him. Shame he spent wasted time on Fields' shot this off-season. Even if Fields wasn't offered that mental contract it still would have been a waste.

    I think TD will most likely be traded to Dallas + cash to absorb his $2M. Why we ever extended him I'll never know.
    I anticipate more of Kidd running the point, Lin playing off the ball as a scorer

    -or-

    Lin being more of "Linsanity" (Scorer mentality) running the 2nd unit while Kidd shows his savvy vet skills by calmly and effectively cntrolling the point (knocking down kick-outs)

    *I'll even say MAYBE TD snaps out of the D'antoni induced slump and plays pressure D cracking the rotation. He goes hard, makes a splash, we trade him at the deadline while he's hot for either

    -help now depending on where we are
    -draft pick(s)

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    Cool

    And let's understand, Woodson is a DEFENSIVE COACH, he will try to bring TD back to form and coach up Lins defense which to me is his weakness.

    This is a good situation although Lin must accept that Linsaninty will be complimented with defense!

    What up Crazy 8's!

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    TD, i want him gone.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Good stuff. It took Dolan 10 yrs to find a backcourt to compliment Ewing, so it's encouraging to see that we're addressing this problem FINALLY.

    (1) PG situation needed to be the first priority, & it was. I was fine with NASH (despite not wanting to give PHO Shump). I'm actually content with bringing in KIDD, and handcuffing him to Jeremy Lin.

    HOU did NYK a favor. I believe their offer was a publicity stunt, so all thgeir Yao fans in China could see that they "tried" to bring LINSANITY to the gulf coast. NO WAY is the "poison pill" as bad as initially reported. 5 mil for the first 2 years was expected, but only going to 10 in the third year & then implanitng the team option in the 4th year = SWEET! Knicks will only take a punch in the gut in 1 season (year #3), but MSG prints money so this is no big deal.

    There's a risk giving LIN 20 mil guaranteed, but paying him only 5 mil a year for 2 years might be a steal. (a) NYK doesn't have a choice b/c they are capped out, didn't have a 1st round pick, so LIN is the only young player with potentially impact status that was within their reach. (b) Linsantiy doesn't have to be Deron Williams, he just needs to be better than what we've had here recently... Be a Chalmers at worst, or a Russell Westbrook at best.

    Have LIN focus on passing the ball & improving on his jumpshot, and knowing when it's time to score himself. He can penetrate at will. Just improve on his conditioning, learn from KIDD.

    Jason Kidd will provide the leadership this locker room needs. KIDD-SHUMP-Chandler will provide some quality 4th quarter man-2-man defense in the 4th quarters. KIDD will run the pick & roll, pop some 3s, and lob some alley-oooooopeedooos to Amar'e & Tyson.

    All-in-all, you have to feel good about our PG situation. NOt the greatest but also not the worst. Above average with potential to be very good next season. AND... remember... we don't need the PG spot to be a strength, b/c we have a star-studded front court. We just need 2 things from the PG position: Do not be a weakness & get the most out of our big front court 3 (Melo, Amare, Chandler). And, dare I say what happens if the PG spot is a strength?

    (2) The SG position is one that is fluid right now. I believe JR Smith wants to stay home, Woodson likes him, and the ties to Carmelo bind us together. He's 26, is willing to play defense. He's another young asset Knicks don't have the luxury to let walk away. BUT, he's best served to fill the 6th man role... that scoring plug off the bench. This is an important role in today's NBA (see Harden & Manu role). Good news is we should have PG covered, so he wont be asked to fill that role this season.

    Shumpert is quality squared. Hold your breath to see if he fully recovers, or how long it takes to get back to 100%... But I liked everything about his game. Still, we cannot count on him this season. Not until Feb., & even then he probably wont be the same until next season. Best case scenario is he returns after all star break, takes 2 months to find his legs/game/shot, and is back to being 90% come the playoffs.

    This means the starting SG is a N-E-E-D. I mean, if we wont to be really good, truly consider ourselves contenders... We need a legit SG. Sure, we could survive the first few months... Play the wait-&-see game. Get to Feb, and feel it out... see if Shump is back or if we need to trade for a SG. That could work.

    Assuming we work out a sign-&-trade to acquire Kidd (this means TD & Gadzurik are gone), we'll still have our MLE available. I think the MLE should go to a SG, or a backup/quality PF/C. I don't think one need is greater than the other, I just loook for the biggest impact player I can procur with the partial 3.? MLE we have at our disposal.

    The top 2 names on my wish list for SG would be OJ Mayo or Randy Foye. I think Foye makes more sense if we let Novak walk. We need somebody to drain 3s. If we're looking at injecting as much young talent in the back court as will possibly allow, then adding Mayo to the Lin-Smith group would be nice. We hope his best days are ahead of him, MSG brings out his best...

    (3) Backup PF/C is another need. Given Amar'e & Chandler's health red flags, we need an enforcer to be ready to roll if asked to step up. We also need a legit rotation big to compliment Amar'e & Tyson. Camby would be nice. E-Ilysavo would be nice additions but I doubt we have a shot at either of these 2 guys. I'm thinking a guy like Tony Battie or Kenyon Martin. Maybe the bi-level exemption is enough to get this done.

    After that, work to re-sign a shooter. Novak or Shawne Williams is fine. Toss in White and all is well. Bring Jeffries back. While we're at it... Bring in Deshawn Stevenson. Why not?


    LIN (Kidd)
    Mayo or Foye (Shumpert)
    Carmelo (White)
    Amar'e (Jeffries)
    Chandler (Battie)

    JR Smith as the 6th man. Novak or S-Williams as the sniper. Joorts as the enforcer.
    Last edited by mafra; Jul 06, 2012 at 10:53.

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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Good stuff. It took Dolan 10 yrs to find a backcourt to compliment Ewing, so it's encouraging to see that we're addressing this problem FINALLY.

    (1) PG situation needed to be the first priority, & it was. I was fine with NASH (despite not wanting to give PHO Shump). I'm actually content with bringing in KIDD, and handcuffing him to Jeremy Lin.

    HOU did NYK a favor. I believe their offer was a publicity stunt, so all thgeir Yao fans in China could see that they "tried" to bring LINSANITY to the gulf coast. NO WAY is the "poison pill" as bad as initially reported. 5 mil for the first 2 years was expected, but only going to 10 in the third year & then implanitng the team option in the 4th year = SWEET! Knicks will only take a punch in the gut in 1 season (year #3), but MSG prints money so this is no big deal.

    There's a risk giving LIN 20 mil guaranteed, but paying him only 5 mil a year for 2 years might be a steal. (a) NYK doesn't have a choice b/c they are capped out, didn't have a 1st round pick, so LIN is the only young player with potentially impact status that was within their reach. (b) Linsantiy doesn't have to be Deron Williams, he just needs to be better than what we've had here recently... Be a Chalmers at worst, or a Russell Westbrook at best.

    Have LIN focus on passing the ball & improving on his jumpshot, and knowing when it's time to score himself. He can penetrate at will. Just improve on his conditioning, learn from KIDD.

    Jason Kidd will provide the leadership this locker room needs. KIDD-SHUMP-Chandler will provide some quality 4th quarter man-2-man defense in the 4th quarters. KIDD will run the pick & roll, pop some 3s, and lob some alley-oooooopeedooos to Amar'e & Tyson.

    All-in-all, you have to feel good about our PG situation. NOt the greatest but also not the worst. Above average with potential to be very good next season. AND... remember... we don't need the PG spot to be a strength, b/c we have a star-studded front court. We just need 2 things from the PG position: Do not be a weakness & get the most out of our big front court 3 (Melo, Amare, Chandler). And, dare I say what happens if the PG spot is a strength?

    (2) The SG position is one that is fluid right now. I believe JR Smith wants to stay home, Woodson likes him, and the ties to Carmelo bind us together. He's 26, is willing to play defense. He's another young asset Knicks don't have the luxury to let walk away. BUT, he's best served to fill the 6th man role... that scoring plug off the bench. This is an important role in today's NBA (see Harden & Manu role). Good news is we should have PG covered, so he wont be asked to fill that role this season.

    Shumpert is quality squared. Hold your breath to see if he fully recovers, or how long it takes to get back to 100%... But I liked everything about his game. Still, we cannot count on him this season. Not until Feb., & even then he probably wont be the same until next season. Best case scenario is he returns after all star break, takes 2 months to find his legs/game/shot, and is back to being 90% come the playoffs.

    This means the starting SG is a N-E-E-D. I mean, if we wont to be really good, truly consider ourselves contenders... We need a legit SG. Sure, we could survive the first few months... Play the wait-&-see game. Get to Feb, and feel it out... see if Shump is back or if we need to trade for a SG. That could work.

    Assuming we work out a sign-&-trade to acquire Kidd (this means TD & Gadzurik are gone), we'll still have our MLE available. I think the MLE should go to a SG, or a backup/quality PF/C. I don't think one need is greater than the other, I just loook for the biggest impact player I can procur with the partial 3.? MLE we have at our disposal.

    The top 2 names on my wish list for SG would be OJ Mayo or Randy Foye. I think Foye makes more sense if we let Novak walk. We need somebody to drain 3s. If we're looking at injecting as much young talent in the back court as will possibly allow, then adding Mayo to the Lin-Smith group would be nice. We hope his best days are ahead of him, MSG brings out his best...

    (3) Backup PF/C is another need. Given Amar'e & Chandler's health red flags, we need an enforcer to be ready to roll if asked to step up. We also need a legit rotation big to compliment Amar'e & Tyson. Camby would be nice. E-Ilysavo would be nice additions but I doubt we have a shot at either of these 2 guys. I'm thinking a guy like Tony Battie or Kenyon Martin. Maybe the bi-level exemption is enough to get this done.

    After that, work to re-sign a shooter. Novak or Shawne Williams is fine. Toss in White and all is well. Bring Jeffries back. While we're at it... Bring in Deshawn Stevenson. Why not?


    LIN (Kidd)
    Mayo or Foye (Shumpert)
    Carmelo (White)
    Amar'e (Jeffries)
    Chandler (Battie)

    JR Smith as the 6th man. Novak or S-Williams as the sniper. Joorts as the enforcer.
    Great post, very detailed.

  9. #9
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red

    What up Crazy 8's!
    Just thinkin' Knicks, dude.

    Any word on Priggioni (spelling) the potential 6th back-court player?

    Last I heard, the Knicks were looking for a way to afford him more than the minimum. Don't think he should be afforded any more than Jefferies.

    Find out after the Camby madness dies down I suppose.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Just thinkin' Knicks, dude.

    Any word on Priggioni (spelling) the potential 6th back-court player?

    Last I heard, the Knicks were looking for a way to afford him more than the minimum. Don't think he should be afforded any more than Jefferies.

    Find out after the Camby madness dies down I suppose.
    No but there are reports that Douglas, Jorts and the guy we signed late last year would be part of a sign-&-trade for Camby.

    So take Douglas out that list.

    I would like an update on our future draft picks. With NJ offering 1st rnd picks in 13' 15' and 17' (or some sh!t) you have to be thinking how th f*ck they got all those and we seem to never have any.

  11. #11
    Member deamon's Avatar
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    If Kidd starts:

    Offense
    PG Kidd
    SG Lin

    Defense
    PG Lin
    SG Kidd

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    Media Our pg trio

    For all the talk of Carmelo Anthony’s brilliant two-way play and the Knicks’ suffocating defense, the team’s ability to limit turnovers may be the key to its 7-1 start.

    Bedeviled by turnovers last year, when they averaged 16 per game, the Knicks have been remarkably under control this season.

    They have committed just 83 turnovers in eight games — finishing in single digits on four occasions — for an average of just over 10 per contest. Compare that to 130 for the opposition, and it’s no secret why the Knicks are winning by such wide margins.

    “It’s been across the board, it’s something we preached at the start of camp,” coach Mike Woodson said. “If you want to be a [good] offensive team, you got to get shots, you can’t give it back to the other team. Miss or make, you still have to get them up. We’ve been pretty good in that area. I just hope it continues. It’s important for our growth and where we want to go as a team.”

    The reason for the turnaround can be traced to the new veteran backcourt of Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd, in addition to backup point guard Pablo Prigioni. The Knicks have become a more plodding, halfcourt team, though there are times they push the ball when transition opportunities are there.

    “Our guards are playing extremely well,” Anthony said.

    The guards have a keen understanding of when to push the ball and when to pull it out, whom to get it to and in what spots, Woodson said.

    “We understand the value of the ball on the offensive end,” Kidd said. “Guys understand taking care of the ball is important if you want to win, and so far we’ve done that.”

    Besides winning, the coaching staff has created added motivation to keep turnovers down. For every turnover each game under 12, the coaches run a lap, which has become a source of amusement for the players.

    “If you guys haven’t witnessed it, it’s pretty hysterical,” Tyson Chandler said. “We enjoy getting under that number and having them limp up and down the court. I think they owe us 12 or 13 from this road trip. We’ll see how many of them have to go under the knife after this. I know a couple of those guys with knee replacements won’t be able to handle it.”

    Woodson said he began the practice in his days as coach in Atlanta at the suggestion of assistant coach Jim Todd, and the Hawks responded by winning 53 games and finishing third in offensive efficiency.

    “We’re trying to see if we can get our coaches in shape,” Kidd said
    I love this article, good read. Have to give COACH WOODY all the credit.

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