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Thread: We are WEAK at the SG position

  1. #16
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    Good thread Kiya -- you're right on the money, my man. We're definitely weak at the 2, even with Smith back (and thank God for JR man, can you imagine if he signed on to play somewhere else? Forget about it -- we'd have no one at 2G right now!). I know they say that it's the easiest spot in the NBA to fix, but I'm still concerned. After this Prigioni signing for about 470-480K, I don't know how much money we have left to fix it. We've got JR Smith and that's basically it -- I don't wanna hear how Kidd will play some 2 and everything's OK -- come on now -- Kidd's an older cat now, he's not a SG and he's never been a great outside shooter anyway (although to be fair, I feel like he's gotten better from long-range as he's gotten older. Still not an NBA SG -- he's a PG!!). And who knows what we're gonna get outta this James White. The dude's a complete enigma with next to no NBA experience.

    Kidd was brought here to be the backup point and to mentor Lin. That's it. Not to be the starting 2G. If I had to bet, as of right now that role's gonna go to Smith (even though I feel Smith serves us much better off the bench). Probably why he chose to come back to NY for only $2.8M -- I betcha they promised him the starting SG spot. That and he may not have gotten the additional offers he said he did (I mean, we would've heard about another offer, no?). In my mind, it's an easy fix, provided we still have a little cash to work with. And I'd like to see them go with youth and athleticism here -- we've added enough older veteran talent. No more 35-and-overs, please.. Gotta have a good mix of youth/athleticism/high ceiling-types to go along with that veteran savvy and know-how...I think these are our top SG options right now:

    Chris Douglas-Roberts - 6'7", prior NBA experience, he can score the ball on anyone. He might come for the vet minimum. Not gonna know unless we reach out to him.

    Scotty Hopson - 6'7", similar offensive game to JR Smith. He can score and do it in a variety of ways. Young and a damn fine athlete to boot. I don't care what any of the naysayers have every said about him -- this guy's NBA material.

    Jamelle Horne - 6'7", athletic, can drive and finish, good offensive rebounder for a wing, solid 3-pt shooter and he can defend.

    Sylven Landesberg - 6'6", nice slashing game, he can get to the line (makes his FTs) and he's developed into a decent outside shooter.

    James Anderson - I believe he's still a FA. I'd scoop him up provided he's healthy (I think he hurt himself at one point and the Spurs sent him down to the D-League. Was recalled, then sent down again. If he's healthy, he's an NBA SG, fits the mold of exactly what we should be looking for (young, 6'6" or better, athletic and he can shoot).

    Alonzo Gee - 6'6", long, athletic, developed into a decent 3-pt shooter. NBA experience with the Cavs.

    Austin Freeman - a little smaller (6'4"-ish), and a little heavier (I read he may be up near 230-235 lbs) than these other guys but I think he's a good talent. Liked him a lot at Georgetown. He'd be a good system guy. Pretty smooth offensive player..I've heard he's too small, not a great athlete, too heavy, etc. -- I think that's all overblown. He can play.

    Matt Janning - he doubled up this SL -- playing for Indy in Orlando and then for Memphis. I like this guy a lot as a PG/SG combo. At 6'4", he's got nice ability to play both positions. Reminds me of a poor man's Goran Dragic. He can see the floor, pass and shoot it. I think this guy would be great here.

    --------------------------
    The next tier:

    Manny Harris - 6'5", strong, athletic, a little erratic offensively but talented. On Houston's SL team.

    Dionte Christmas - on Boston's Orlando SL team. Hopefully we're monitoring his progress. 6'5" and he can shoot.

    Derrick Byars - 6'7" 220 lb G-F playing for SA's SL team (interesting that their roster also includes James Anderson -- did they officially re-sign him? I didn't think so). 5 yr college player had a very good final yr at Vandy. Cup of coffee in the NBA with a couple of teams (I remember him with the Bulls). Was a reliable 3-pt shooter in college. Solid in the DL as well. Solid all-around player. The more I think about this guy, the more sense he makes for us.

    Hollis Thompson - At 6'8" with his length, upside and deft shooting touch from downtown, I think we should take a shot here. Surprising that nobody scooped him up yet for summer ball. All the rosters aren't in yet though.

    Sonny Weems - if it's Weems then so be it. We could do worse. He's big, strong and athletic. Also, it'd be nice to stick it to Toronto a little bit -- they overthought this thinking they ****ed us outta Nash when they severly overpaid for Fields; maybe we counter by going out and grabbing their former guy Weems on the cheap as a final piece (MUCH, MUCH cheaper than what they paid for Fields) and start rolling.

    -------------------------

    I would've LOVED to have added OJ Mayo or even Courtney Lee. Too bad that wasn't in the cards...If we have anything left at all to trade (which I don't think we do), one guy we might be able to get cheap via trade is Wayne Ellington from Minnesota (esp. after they just signed Brandon Roy -- Ellington never seemed to fit there---over here, he'd be my starting 2 with Smith coming off the bench resuming his 6th man role). Ellington hasn't proved much in Minny (hasn't really been given that great an opportunity too to be fair) but he was a good player at NC that can flat out shoot it). Reggie Williams from Charlotte might be another guy we can snag, maybe for a future 2 and cash. I wish we would've gotten Williams last year when we had the opportunity.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jul 12, 2012 at 10:34.

  2. #17
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    I agree, to a certain extent. I was hopin we would had Foye or Mayo. The after making our moves, I thought Dahntay Jones would be nice. I still think something should be done... Maybe bringing in a D-Stevenson on a vet min deal. Something like that. Small. Roll dice and hope for best.

    BUT, if things work out well... come playoff time... We'll have Shumpert starting. JR Smith backing him up, serving as our 6th man. Plus, we can use Kidd-Lin together. We'll survive.

    ALSO, there's the trade deadline. I'm sure if SG is a problem still... & if Shumpert isn;t healing the way we hoped for, the Knicks will make a trade for something serviceable.

  3. #18
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    At this point there us NO reason not to sign Fields....
    The only thing it costs the knicks is luxury tax......we are on a 3 year plan and his contract would just be 3 years so whats the difference...

    Shump not back until Mid-January,,,,,
    JR is not a starting SG>>>for all you fans do u not see how not a single team offered him a contract....

    Fields played awesome with LIN so why not......

    Lin
    Fields
    Melo
    Stat
    Chandler

    Spanish dude
    Kidd
    JR
    white
    camby
    Novak....

    alot to play with...

    Fields energy at 6'8 is needed.....

  4. #19
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    I disagree, make Novak the starter if Smith is the problem and just call it a day. To be honest I would want Novak on the floor with melo and stat all the time anyway, screw that off the bench crap. The man can shoot and the people who can give him the open looks are all on the first team.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    At this point there us NO reason not to sign Fields....
    The only thing it costs the knicks is luxury tax......we are on a 3 year plan and his contract would just be 3 years so whats the difference...

    Shump not back until Mid-January,,,,,
    JR is not a starting SG>>>for all you fans do u not see how not a single team offered him a contract....

    Fields played awesome with LIN so why not......

    Lin
    Fields
    Melo
    Stat
    Chandler

    Spanish dude
    Kidd
    JR
    white
    camby
    Novak....

    alot to play with...

    Fields energy at 6'8 is needed.....
    You know, you make a good argument here bro -- yeah, why not resign Fields? 3-yr window, all it is is luxury tax for money-bags Dolan and you're right, he did have good chemistry with his buddy Lin. Plus, we could use him -- we only have 1 legit 2G on this roster right now, not counting Shump who's hurt (even though Fields isn't your prototypical 2). Couldn't hurt -- if we're gonna go for it, might as well go ALL IN. I see where you're coming from. And I still like Landry a lot, limitations and all.

    Thing is, $20M is way too much money for him. He regressed badly last yr (esp. with his outside shooting, hard to justify $20M on a SG who can't shoot) and just didn't seem to fit here anymore post Melo trade..Forget all about making any kind of moderate to big moves during the next several yrs if we matched that offer. That's it -- this'll be the team pretty much, sink or swim. Although, we would still have the MLE every year to use on a player or two. But now your just talking about compounding the luxury tax -- I think they'd be well over once they sign Fields. Asking them to continue adding to their tax bill after Fields is asking a lot. Asking them to resign Fields and assume a big tax hit is probably asking too much in itself...Not sure what it is exactly but supposedly the luxury tax penalty is a lot stiffer in this new CBA than it was before.

  6. #21
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    If the Knicks don't sign a solid rotation SG by next week I think the Knicks will match Landry's offer. He'll be overpaid but he's a proven rotation player, lol at the talk of a bad contract when the Knicks paid Jerome James and Eddie Curry millions to just sit on the bench. If Shump was healthy and JR more consistent then the Knicks probably wouldn't match, re-signing Landry makes sense at this point.
    Howard Beck‏@HowardBeckNYT

    RT @michaelgrange: Colangelo says #Knicks are "50-50" on matching Fields offer ... #Raptors #NBA


    Marc Berman‏@NYPost_Berman

    Source said #Knicks likely to wait the limit on Fields offer sheet.


    Frank Isola‏@FisolaNYDN

    The Knicks don't really care about the paying the luxury tax which is why you can see them matching the offer for Landry Fields.


    Adrian Wojnarowski‏@WojYahooNBA

    Agree with @FisolaNYDN and absolutely do not rule out Knicks matching Landry Fields offer sheet. They have a 3-year window to win now.


    Frank Isola‏@FisolaNYDN

    I don't think it is the worst thing if Knicks match the Landry Fields' offer. He's still a good defensive 2-guard...with J.R. off the bench


    Can't help but feel that we can offer something less lucrative to a more suitable player. Foye, of course, would be nice. Very interested to see what ends up happening with OJ Mayo. Has anything come up regarding his situation?

    If we re-sign Fields he'll be on the bench behind JR, Novak and eventually Shump. Unless Grundog has no intention of re-signing JR beyond next season, there's really no point to pay that much. Not that it's a concern of Dolan's. I'm sure, in fact, that he'd bring back Fields just to appease Lin.

    Originally Posted by Knicks32
    I'm pretty confident that we will see Novak taking the starting SG position at the beginning.
    That'd create so many unfavorable defensive mismatches for us. Offensively, sure, the spacing would be good, but we'd be switching Novak to defend the less important match ups for us. He can't defend a single one of the league's starting 2s or 3s.

    Originally Posted by mafra
    I agree, to a certain extent. I was hopin we would had Foye or Mayo. The after making our moves, I thought Dahntay Jones would be nice. I still think something should be done... Maybe bringing in a D-Stevenson on a vet min deal. Something like that. Small. Roll dice and hope for best.

    BUT, if things work out well... come playoff time... We'll have Shumpert starting. JR Smith backing him up, serving as our 6th man. Plus, we can use Kidd-Lin together. We'll survive.

    ALSO, there's the trade deadline. I'm sure if SG is a problem still... & if Shumpert isn;t healing the way we hoped for, the Knicks will make a trade for something serviceable.
    Yep........
    Last edited by Crazy⑧s; Jul 12, 2012 at 08:29. Reason: what's it to you?

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by dasilva1079
    I disagree, make Novak the starter if Smith is the problem and just call it a day. To be honest I would want Novak on the floor with melo and stat all the time anyway, screw that off the bench crap. The man can shoot and the people who can give him the open looks are all on the first team.
    I can see your point about wanting legit outside shooting on the floor with that starting unit (which is why a big part of me really wanted a guy like Kim English or Hollis Thompson in this draft---rookie and all, if we could've gotten English, he would've started for me) but come on man, you can't ask Novak to match up with NBA 2-guards, let alone starting NBA 2s. That mismatch in these other teams' favor would be exploited 'til the cows came home every night. Novak getting continually abused like that defensively would probably take away from his shooting effectiveness too. I like Novak where he is -- coming off the bench to be used in situations where coach sees fit. That's how you maximize this guy's effectiveness in my view.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jul 12, 2012 at 08:50.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    I can see your point about wanting legit outside shooting on the floor with that starting unit (which is why a big part of me really wanted a guy like Kim English or Hollis Thompson in this draft) but come on man, you can't ask Novak to match up with NBA 2-guards, let alone starting NBA 2s. That mismatch in these other teams' favor would be exploited 'til the cows came home every night. Novak getting continually abused like that defensively would probably take away from his shooting effectiveness too. I like Novak where he is -- coming off the bench to be used in situations where coach sees fit. That's how you maximize this guy's effectiveness in my view.
    Echo, echo, echo, echo

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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Echo, echo, echo, echo
    Can't help but feel that we can offer something less lucrative to a more suitable player. Foye, of course, would be nice. Very interested to see what ends up happening with OJ Mayo. Has anything come up regarding his situation?

    If we re-sign Fields he'll be on the bench behind JR, Novak and eventually Shump. Unless Grundog has no intention of re-signing JR beyond next season, there's really no point to pay that much. Not that it's a concern of Dolan's. I'm sure, in fact, that he'd bring back Fields just to appease Lin.

  10. #25
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    Wow, 50-50 to re-sign Fields, huh? Shows we're thinking about it. I love the guy but if push came to shove, I let him walk for that money. There are some pros, but in the end, I don't think I could justify giving him 20 million.

    In my mind, a lot of the guys I talked about on the list above are better than Fields anyway. And they'd all come cheaper, some MUCH cheaper. It's tough, but we might be better off letting Landry go then calling up a guy like CDR to see if he'd come here for the vet minimum. Either that or offer one of these younger/dynamic/high-upside players an opportunity to come here and make the club on a league minimum deal. That's what I'd do. F Toronto -- jokers think they put one over on us by signing Fields to that rediculous offer sheet to keep Nash away...OK, we didn't get Nash, BUT NEITHER DID YOU COLANGELO!! Now take that 'poison pill' Fields contract and shove it up your ass! I wouldn't mind seeing that at all.

    Then part of me wants the kid back, so I dunno man..

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by NYNYK
    Can't help but feel that we can offer something less lucrative to a more suitable player. Foye, of course, would be nice. Very interested to see what ends up happening with OJ Mayo. Has anything come up regarding his situation?

    If we re-sign Fields he'll be on the bench behind JR, Novak and eventually Shump. Unless Grundog has no intention of re-signing JR beyond next season, there's really no point to pay that much. Not that it's a concern of Dolan's. I'm sure, in fact, that he'd bring back Fields just to appease Lin.
    If we bring Fields back, I think he'll go right back to being the starting 2G, esp for $20M. Slides right back into the role that he's manned for the last couple of years, a role he's comfortable with and like Skis mentioned earlier, he's got good chemistry with Lin..I think they like JR's firepower off the bench. I know I do. JR feels redundant to me a little with Melo and Amar'e on the floor. It's a better balanced team with JR's offense coming in later as Melo and Amar'e go out for a rest. Unless they promised JR the starting SG gig already, this is how I feel it'll go if we bring Landry back. Woodson went 18-6 to wrap up the season with Fields as his starting 2. He might be one of the guys lobbying behind the scene to keep him, who knows..
    Last edited by finestrg; Jul 12, 2012 at 09:35.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by NYNYK
    Can't help but feel that we can offer something less lucrative to a more suitable player. Foye, of course, would be nice. Very interested to see what ends up happening with OJ Mayo. Has anything come up regarding his situation?

    If we re-sign Fields he'll be on the bench behind JR, Novak and eventually Shump. Unless Grundog has no intention of re-signing JR beyond next season, there's really no point to pay that much. Not that it's a concern of Dolan's. I'm sure, in fact, that he'd bring back Fields just to appease Lin.
    Your missing the point....
    Fields $$$$ can only be used for him since we have his bird rights.....so if we dont get fields we save ZERO ....that money cannot be used for another player...

    If Knicks are looking for a 3 year year team then Fields can only help not hurt........who cares about Dolans taxes......

    For all those that say Fields did not fit in with Melo well either did Lin, Stat and whoever else....

    Lets imagine One coach, One full training camp and a very deep bench and we are good to go...

    Novak is NOT a SG....who could he defend ???

    and JR is a chucker....

    Fields is very stupid money we all agree...he is worth maybe 3 years 8 million but screw dolan and lets keep him....plus he can sing

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    I agree, to a certain extent. I was hopin we would had Foye or Mayo. The after making our moves, I thought Dahntay Jones would be nice. I still think something should be done... Maybe bringing in a D-Stevenson on a vet min deal. Something like that. Small. Roll dice and hope for best.

    BUT, if things work out well... come playoff time... We'll have Shumpert starting. JR Smith backing him up, serving as our 6th man. Plus, we can use Kidd-Lin together. We'll survive.

    ALSO, there's the trade deadline. I'm sure if SG is a problem still... & if Shumpert isn;t healing the way we hoped for, the Knicks will make a trade for something serviceable.
    Foye is still available, dont give up on Gruns

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    Originally Posted by Knicks32
    I'm pretty confident that we will see Novak taking the starting SG position at the beginning.

    JR Smith can't play with Melo as the NBA only allows 1 ball to be used at a time.

    We don't have anyone else that can start at SG until Shump returns.
    lol Novak starting at SG. I watched a replay of the Toronto game where Lin hit that last second 3 to win the game.

    Novak was guarding Barbosa and Barbosa's eyes lit up when he saw that, put the ball on the floor and blew by Novakaine for an easy layup. He's great at what he does but to ask him to guard SGs he can't do.

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    Originally Posted by skisloper
    Your missing the point....
    Fields $$$$ can only be used for him since we have his bird rights.....so if we dont get fields we save ZERO ....that money cannot be used for another player...

    If Knicks are looking for a 3 year year team then Fields can only help not hurt........who cares about Dolans taxes......

    For all those that say Fields did not fit in with Melo well either did Lin, Stat and whoever else....

    Lets imagine One coach, One full training camp and a very deep bench and we are good to go...

    Novak is NOT a SG....who could he defend ???

    and JR is a chucker....

    Fields is very stupid money we all agree...he is worth maybe 3 years 8 million but screw dolan and lets keep him....plus he can sing
    Aah, u guys missed the lame attempt at humor in my post. I copied word for word what Crazy said after he accused finestrg of echoing his own post. Now, I'm getting credit for Crazy's post.

    And for the record, I could care less if we keep Fields or not; he's shown flashes of brilliance with Lin but his jumper is atrocious. But like u guys said, the luxury tax is chump change to Dolan. He'll just raise ticket prices next year and we'll still have sold out crowds again after Lin comes back to make up for it.

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