We are WEAK at the SG position

jimkcchief88 · Jul 12, 2012

CoolClyde said:
this has turned into an awesome thread, Kiyaman's best ever!

the question is, can JR Smith be a starting SG, or is Laundry Folds the better choice? money is not really a question, with early turd rights being the case, and Alan Hahn agrees his contract can help Knicks in the future. Dolan is a multi-mega-millionaire, re-signing (!) a Laundry clean is no skin off the Knicks backs towards signing someone else, so why the f*ck not? who cares if Toronto gave him more than he's worth, the big picture is keeping a team together for more than a year, keeping the players together so they can gel, and letting Landry discover the Force Fields (thanks OBM) he can be. He's got it in him.

JR Smith cannot be a starting SG, taking shots away from Melo. Junior Swish is more of a ball hog than anyone on the team, and although he has skills, he is a chucker. if he practiced as much as he tweeted, perhaps he'd be a better player come playoff time. if you read his tweets, he's not smart, not sophisticated or educated, he's a thug. he's a backup who can bring a spark to the 2nd unit.

If Knicks do not get a worthy starting SG, I'm all for Laundry folding back into the lineup. he'll be WAY happy, Lin will be happy, the Knicks will have their starting five back for the first time in a decade...(?) or so it seems.

IMHO.

No, If JR spent as much time shooting as he did in the tattoo parlor he would be a 200% shooter

jimkcchief88 · Jul 12, 2012

Kiyaman said:
Chicago never shouldve let Ben Gordon go....all the SG Chicago got after Jordan has been tier-3 accept for Gordon.....RIP is injury prone and taking a chance on Redd is .......

They had to chose between Air Gordon and Luo Deng and they chose Deng. They did not choose wisely.....Air Gordon was clutch for the Bullies in the playoffs....

SSj4Wingzero · Jul 13, 2012

jimkcchief88 said:
They had to chose between Air Gordon and Luo Deng and they chose Deng. They did not choose wisely.....Air Gordon was clutch for the Bullies in the playoffs....

That's silly. Look at what Gordon did? Got the Pistons into Salary Cap Hell with that terrible contract. He's a solid player, but not for that kind of money.

Does anybody know if Maurice Evans can play defense? If he can, we should get him, since he seems to have pretty decent shooting numbers which will only improve when he gets better looks with our team. Hard to get good looks when you're on the Wizards.

skisloper · Jul 13, 2012

CoolClyde said:
this has turned into an awesome thread, Kiyaman's best ever!

the question is, can JR Smith be a starting SG, or is Laundry Folds the better choice? money is not really a question, with early turd rights being the case, and Alan Hahn agrees his contract can help Knicks in the future. Dolan is a multi-mega-millionaire, re-signing (!) a Laundry clean is no skin off the Knicks backs towards signing someone else, so why the f*ck not? who cares if Toronto gave him more than he's worth, the big picture is keeping a team together for more than a year, keeping the players together so they can gel, and letting Landry discover the Force Fields (thanks OBM) he can be. He's got it in him.

JR Smith cannot be a starting SG, taking shots away from Melo. Junior Swish is more of a ball hog than anyone on the team, and although he has skills, he is a chucker. if he practiced as much as he tweeted, perhaps he'd be a better player come playoff time. if you read his tweets, he's not smart, not sophisticated or educated, he's a thug. he's a backup who can bring a spark to the 2nd unit.

If Knicks do not get a worthy starting SG, I'm all for Laundry folding back into the lineup. he'll be WAY happy, Lin will be happy, the Knicks will have their starting five back for the first time in a decade...(?) or so it seems.

IMHO.

If Landy develops a shot then he should be the SG...but lets assume he did not neither he or JR should be the starting SG but I like have both guys off the bench........

p0nder · Jul 13, 2012

J.R. is a better overall player and fit then Fields.

Fields defense on Ray Allen is the reason we can let him walk. Just go watch some video of our first round sweep against the celtics in 2011. Fields hasn't improved in being able to defend on the ball or get around screens. We need to be built to beat the Heat and he will be a liability on defense while not producing on offense.

EVEN IF he improved his shooting (which is not very good) he wouldn't be able to even spot defend the likes of wade or allen without giving up major points and/or dagger 3's. His best asset is his rebounding and with the deepest front court in basketball I don't think the Knicks really need his #1 contribution at the starting 2 spot (rebounding).

Meanwhile J.R. is improving every year in the league, is still fairly young, still willing to come for "cheap" to NYK, is a better defender then Fields, is a better shooter then fields, and is more athletic then fields. J.R. is a hustle player just like fields. He hit's the deck, runs the floor, spaces on offense, helps on defense and does all the intangibles as well or better then Fields aside from rebounding.

Fields is a much better fit for a team like Toronto who has a lot of athletic firepower but doesn't have the hustle, smarts and rebounding that Fields will bring.

The one intangible that Fields does have going for him with the Knicks is his magic couch and the handshake with Lin. So I don't know, maybe a magic couch is worth 28 million....

J.R. will start. Round it out with a Sonny Weems type to back him up until Shump comes back. Rotate J.R./Kidd/Lin/Shump/Weems at the 2. Offensive and defensive lineups are plenty with this combo. I do not see a glaring weakness at the 2. I would argue that we have youth and potential there and the future of the Knicks is probably tied in with Lin/J.R./Shump.

I'm not knocking Fields as a player but he is not the right fit for the position/team any more. I would be happy to bring him back but I don't think he's a solid starting 2 or will ever develop into one, which is how I see Shump and J.R. being a better stop gap solution.

skisloper · Jul 13, 2012

p0nder said:
J.R. is a better overall player and fit then Fields.

Fields defense on Ray Allen is the reason we can let him walk. Just go watch some video of our first round sweep against the celtics in 2011. Fields hasn't improved in being able to defend on the ball or get around screens. We need to be built to beat the Heat and he will be a liability on defense while not producing on offense.

EVEN IF he improved his shooting (which is not very good) he wouldn't be able to even spot defend the likes of wade or allen without giving up major points and/or dagger 3's. His best asset is his rebounding and with the deepest front court in basketball I don't think the Knicks really need his #1 contribution at the starting 2 spot (rebounding).

Meanwhile J.R. is improving every year in the league, is still fairly young, still willing to come for "cheap" to NYK, is a better defender then Fields, is a better shooter then fields, and is more athletic then fields. J.R. is a hustle player just like fields. He hit's the deck, runs the floor, spaces on offense, helps on defense and does all the intangibles as well or better then Fields aside from rebounding.

Fields is a much better fit for a team like Toronto who has a lot of athletic firepower but doesn't have the hustle, smarts and rebounding that Fields will bring.

The one intangible that Fields does have going for him with the Knicks is his magic couch and the handshake with Lin. So I don't know, maybe a magic couch is worth 28 million....

J.R. will start. Round it out with a Sonny Weems type to back him up until Shump comes back. Rotate J.R./Kidd/Lin/Shump/Weems at the 2. Offensive and defensive lineups are plenty with this combo. I do not see a glaring weakness at the 2. I would argue that we have youth and potential there and the future of the Knicks is probably tied in with Lin/J.R./Shump.

I'm not knocking Fields as a player but he is not the right fit for the position/team any more. I would be happy to bring him back but I don't think he's a solid starting 2 or will ever develop into one, which is how I see Shump and J.R. being a better stop gap solution.

I do agree with your regarding Fields on offense....but do not go to year 1 and see his defense.....Fields is learning the NBA game and i think his defense has improved..the 7 game run we went on with Linsanity we won on defense.....Fields was a big piece of that.......

As for JR he did NOT come to NY cheap...he came at his market value because NO OTHER TEAM made him an offer......

His defense that u speak of cost us a bunch of 3 foul shots due to him fouling behind the ARC,,,,,do u not recall ?
You say he is getting better....we all agree about his athletism but his inability to get to the foul line was ludicrous....The guy shot almost 70 times and got to the foul line maybe 10 times....
He should not be a starting SG.......Bring off the bench and if has is that night great and if he not take him out....his Bball IQ is low so Woodson needs to use his to make the call when its a JR time....

with that said we need a Starting SG......

Simple question ......is there no way you can use melo as the 2 guard...

portega1968 · Jul 13, 2012

skisloper said:
Simple question ......is there no way you can use melo as the 2 guard...

Who would you play upfront with Amare and Tyson?

Playing Camby would not work cause Amare would be totally ineffective versus quicker SFs

If Novak, you would probably see Melo in foul trouble guarding 2s.

I don't see Melo chasing Ray Allen or Jason Terry around screens.

SSj4Wingzero · Jul 13, 2012

Has Glen Grunwald called Mickael Pietrus?

finestrg · Jul 13, 2012

Top 3 SG options:

(1) Offer a contract to Chris Douglas-Roberts. (I want Smith to lead the 2nd unit attack). This guy provides size (6'7"), versatility (he can play 2 & 3) and a very good secondary scorer.

(2) Offer a contract to Jodie Meeks. Promise him the starting 2G spot. 3-pt specialist.

(3) Look into trading for Wayne Ellington. Probably unrealistic -- we don't have much to trade -- Dan Gadzuric's unguaranteed contract & about $1M cash. Think about including a future 2nd rounder or possibly a future 1st rounder (Ellington's still young and was a 1st rounder himslef back in 2009, #28 -- for what we need, he might be worth a future 1). Similar to Meeks, maybe more versatile/more upside.

------------------

If we can't get anywhere with the top 3, I'd look long & hard at some of these other guys: Scotty Hopson, Jamelle Horne, Sylven Landesberg, Derrick Byars, Austin Freeman, James Anderson, Alonzo Gee, Hollis Thompson, Sonny Weems.

We've got some solid options here.

NYk_Reloaded718 · Jul 13, 2012

finestrg said:
Top 3 SG options:

(1) Offer a contract to Chris Douglas-Roberts. (I want Smith to lead the 2nd unit attack). This guy provides size (6'7"), versatility (he can play 2 & 3) and a very good secondary scorer.

(2) Offer a contract to Jodie Meeks. Promise him the starting 2G spot. 3-pt specialist.

(3) Look into trading for Wayne Ellington. Probably unrealistic -- we don't have much to trade -- Dan Gadzuric's unguaranteed contract & about $1M cash. Think about including a future 2nd rounder or possibly a future 1st rounder (Ellington's still young and was a 1st rounder himslef back in 2009, #28 -- for what we need, he might be worth a future 1). Similar to Meeks, maybe more versatile/more upside.

------------------

If we can't get anywhere with the top 3, I'd look long & hard at some of these other guys: Scotty Hopson, Jamelle Horne, Sylven Landesberg, Derrick Byars, Austin Freeman, James Anderson, Alonzo Gee, Hollis Thompson, Sonny Weems.

We've got some solid options here.

Jodie meeks :thumbsup: he would fit perfect with this squad.

Kiyaman · Jul 13, 2012

p0nder said:
J.R. is a better overall player and fit then Fields.

Fields defense on Ray Allen is the reason we can let him walk. Just go watch some video of our first round sweep against the celtics in 2011. Fields hasn't improved in being able to defend on the ball or get around screens. We need to be built to beat the Heat and he will be a liability on defense while not producing on offense.

EVEN IF he improved his shooting (which is not very good) he wouldn't be able to even spot defend the likes of wade or allen without giving up major points and/or dagger 3's. His best asset is his rebounding and with the deepest front court in basketball I don't think the Knicks really need his #1 contribution at the starting 2 spot (rebounding).

Meanwhile J.R. is improving every year in the league, is still fairly young, still willing to come for "cheap" to NYK, is a better defender then Fields, is a better shooter then fields, and is more athletic then fields. J.R. is a hustle player just like fields. He hit's the deck, runs the floor, spaces on offense, helps on defense and does all the intangibles as well or better then Fields aside from rebounding.

Fields is a much better fit for a team like Toronto who has a lot of athletic firepower but doesn't have the hustle, smarts and rebounding that Fields will bring.

The one intangible that Fields does have going for him with the Knicks is his magic couch and the handshake with Lin. So I don't know, maybe a magic couch is worth 28 million....

J.R. will start. Round it out with a Sonny Weems type to back him up until Shump comes back. Rotate J.R./Kidd/Lin/Shump/Weems at the 2. Offensive and defensive lineups are plenty with this combo. I do not see a glaring weakness at the 2. I would argue that we have youth and potential there and the future of the Knicks is probably tied in with Lin/J.R./Shump.

I'm not knocking Fields as a player but he is not the right fit for the position/team any more. I would be happy to bring him back but I don't think he's a solid starting 2 or will ever develop into one, which is how I see Shump and J.R. being a better stop gap solution.

u started this thread off with Landry Fields rookie season in the playoffs defending Ray Allen = HOF .. do u recall Billups & Fields in the backcourt, or u just recall the 3 games with TD & Fields in the backcourt.

Landry Fields has made some huge strives in improvement since his rookie season at being a starter .. JR.Smith 8 season experience has not come close to Fields improvement as a starter/finisher.

finestrg · Jul 13, 2012

Almost_famous718 said:
Jodie meeks :thumbsup: he would fit perfect with this squad.

I like it too and I don't think Meeks will cost as much as some might think (I think if we came at him right now with a vet minimum offer and a promise to start at SG, he might accept that). Has the guy even gotten any offers yet? Does Philly even want him back? If they did, they would've locked him up already, no?? He's a little small at 6'4" but if there's some kind of mismatch with another team's bigger 2 we can go to Smith (6'6"), who's not a bad defender. We can always find ways to keep Meeks on the floor even in such a mismatch: say our PGs are both out resting (Lin/Kidd), Melo brings the ball up, Meeks plays off the ball and defends the point, Smith defends the 2 etc.. Having 1 3-pt specialist is great (Novak) -- having 2 is even better. Conceivably, we could even find ways to play Novak and Meeks together for stretches. Woody'll have to figure it out but it could work.

jimkcchief88 · Jul 13, 2012

SSj4Wingzero said:
That's silly. Look at what Gordon did? Got the Pistons into Salary Cap Hell with that terrible contract. He's a solid player, but not for that kind of money.

Does anybody know if Maurice Evans can play defense? If he can, we should get him, since he seems to have pretty decent shooting numbers which will only improve when he gets better looks with our team. Hard to get good looks when you're on the Wizards.

Same can be said for Deng though....Don't even bring up Detroit because they are a mess for more reasons than Gordon's contract... some guys just fit better in certain places...bet the Bulls wish they had Air Gordon right now with D. Rose out for the season:"and now starting PG for your Chicago Bulls--Kirk Hienrich....And at shooting guard...Jimmy Butler"lol

tiger0330 · Jul 13, 2012

I would say with Lin's revised offer sheet of ~15M for his 3rd year that the odds of Grunwald matching Landry just got a lot smaller.

Red · Jul 13, 2012

Fields is a$$, do-do, garbage, and unimpressive.

Close this dumbass thread. Fields isn't worth the argument. He's fit for a team in mediocrity. We have championship contention aspirations. He doesn't cut it.

STEP YOUR EXPECTATIONS UP. F*ck all that "he hustles", "he's a glue guy" sh*t!

That n!ggas whack! Seriously our 2 guard is Shump and JR. I'll take those dudes anyday over Fields.

Fields is a background player NOT a difference maker. If you want to create a commendable thread

Make one thanking the stupid a$$ Raptors. And yeah Fields will probably shine there

Cause there ain't no spotlights in Canada. NONE.

Step your game up. Are we trying to win or not hurt feelings? That's what we did for the last two years while Fields was stinking up he joint while being forced into the starting line-up; trying NOT to hurt his feelings and poor confidence... f*ck that.

Keeping & Starting Fields was a D'Antoni move and another MDA mistake. Need I get more into that?

dasilva1079 · Jul 13, 2012

red said:
fields is a$$, do-do, garbage, and unimpressive.

Close this dumbass thread. Fields isn't worth the argument. He's fit for a team in mediocrity. We have championship contention aspirations. He doesn't cut it.

Step your expectations up. F*ck all that "he hustles", "he's a glue guy" sh*t!

That n!ggas whack! Seriously our 2 guard is shump and jr. I'll take those dudes anyday over fields.

Fields is a background player not a difference maker. If you want to create a commendable thread

make one thanking the stupid a$$ raptors. And yeah fields will probably shine there

cause there ain't no spotlights in canada. None.

Step your game up. Are we trying to win or not hurt feelings? That's what we did for the last two years while fields was stinking up he joint while being forced into the starting line-up; trying not to hurt his feelings and poor confidence... F*ck that.

Keeping & starting fields was a d'antoni move and another mda mistake. Need i get more into that?

amen !!!!!!!

portega1968 · Jul 13, 2012

Red said:
..

Close this dumbass thread. ..

...Seriously our 2 guard is Shump and JR. I'll take those dudes anyday over Fields.

Why close the thread about us being Weak at SG? Shump is out and JR is not the best option to start at that spot. Thread is valid.

I honestly don't care if we don't match Fields, but I will be dissapointed if we don't bring in a 2guard like Jodie Meeks that can provide long range shooting in the starting unit.

elcol · Jul 13, 2012

portega1968 said:
Why close the thread about us being Weak at SG? Shump is out and JR is not the best option to start at that spot. Thread is valid.

I honestly don't care if we don't match Fields, but I will be dissapointed if we don't bring in a 2guard like Jodie Meeks that can provide long range shooting in the starting unit.

He's responding to Kiya's original post, which is basically a long rant about how JR Smith is bad and how we should resign fields. > not about being weak at SG, which is luckily what the thread turned into

CA7 · Jul 14, 2012

Martell Webster should be our target.

Physical enough to play defense the way we need too and can stroke the 3 ball at a decent clip

Wargames · Jul 14, 2012

Meeks would be nice. I said this before though the Knicks need someone who can play above all else. If they don't keep fields I will consider that a sign they found someone willing to take that 2.1 deal.

We are WEAK at the SG position

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