View Poll Results: We'll be BETTER with STAT

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  • Even at 5-0, we can be stronger with STAT

    30 81.08%
  • No, he will mess it all up!

    4 10.81%
  • STAT who?

    3 8.11%
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Thread: 2012-13 Amar'e Stoudemire Player Performance and News thread

  1. #376
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    i wana see Olajuwon version of Stat 4 Knicks when he will back. But for me stat must be as bench player

  2. #377
    Superstar KnicksWillRiseAgain's Avatar
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    Yes, and no.

    It's realistic because it makes perfect sense. Pau Gasol is worthless in the D'Assholio system. As Knicks fans we've seen how many players that were unused or poorly used here but went to other places and became succesful players. (Corey Brewer, Jordan Hill, Darko, Brian Cardinal, Nate Robinson, ect).

    Pau Gasol's case will be very similar to Carmelo's. Both of them thrive in a half court system and get a lot of their point on post ups. In Pau's case if you take away post ups and working on the boards then all he really has is a mid ranged jumper.

    With Amare, the Lakers would have a second pick and roll option with Dwight, and It gives Nash another weapon on the fast break, which the D'Antoni system is all about.

    The D'Antoni system's answer to defense is more offense, and in a system where it's all about speed led by Steve Nash and Mike D'Antoni, you're not gonna have problems with Dwight and Amare clogging up the paint as an earlier poster suggested. Just more fast paced offense. and unlike the Knicks offense the Lakers have three other guys to go through when they need scoring. Amare won't have to do as much as he does here where he is the second scoring option. Which will keep him and his old man knees much healthier.

    Pau Gasol fits into Mike Woodson's Knicks aswell. He's a great defensive player who can rebound, post up, and shoot a mid range J. He fits with Melo who also thrives in a half court offense instead of the speedball offense Amar'e thrives in.

    Pau doesn't need someone to create for him as well. He can play off the ball unlike Amare. Melo can continue to be a superstar with Pau and score 30 a game while Pau will score a quiet yet efficent 15-20 pts, and will grab all the rebounds he wants. This team desperately needs someone to pull down boards and Pau can fill in on that task as well

    So it's a perfectly realistic trade. It makes sense for both teams and players and If i was ether GM I would be trying to get this done as soon as humanly possible. But the thing is there are plenty of logical NBA trades that would benefit both teams that just haven't and may not ever happen. Hopefully in this case it gets done. I give it a 50/50 shot of happening within the next two seasons. 25% chance it happens this year.

  3. #378
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Amar'e was only brought here because of MDA.

    It is like buying a house because you want to please your wife but she ends up divorcing you later on and all that you're left with is a mortgage to pay.The only options that you have is to either pay the rest of the mortgage or get your ex wife and her new lover to take the house and its expenses from you.

    D'antoni is no longer here and the culture of the Knicks has completely changed in such a way that Amar'e's chances of playing any type of major role on this team has dwindled dramatically. Even if Amar'e comes back and is healthy I don't think that his body will hold up in the long run.

    The only way that the Lakers trade for him is if D'antoni gets off to a slow start with them and convinces the Lakers' front office that his style of coaching could only work with a player like Amar'e at the PF position.
    Just an opinion ....

    After Amare spent one season under coach Gentry (bigman-rotation) there was no-way Amare would want to play for a small-rotation coach Dantoni .. It was the $MONEY$ that got Amare to sign with Knick$$$

    During the ALL-Star FA offseason Amare were the first ALL-Star FA signed, plus Amare (broken-Knee) were going to be signed by some team before Bosh & Boozer was signed .. Donnie Walsh was lucky he had a $100M to spend.

    ..

  4. #379
    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Just an opinion ....

    After Amare spent one season under coach Gentry (bigman-rotation) there was no-way Amare would want to play for a small-rotation coach Dantoni .. It was the $MONEY$ that got Amare to sign with Knick$$$

    During the ALL-Star FA offseason Amare were the first ALL-Star FA signed, plus Amare (broken-Knee) were going to be signed by some team before Bosh & Boozer was signed .. Donnie Walsh was lucky he had a $100M to spend.

    ..
    Wasn't Amar'e one of the players on the Knicks that were disappointed that D'antoni had quit last season? Amar'e was signed by the Knicks because he was a D'antoni type of player that had past success under his system. Walsh's plan was for Mike D'antoni to have the right players to win a championship.

  5. #380
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Straight up?? Maybe in the bizaroo world..

    No seriously, slim chance. Gasol is a real good two-way talent. He is a winning player.

    Amare is not a winning player because he is defensively inept.

  6. #381
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    The Lakers getting Amare for Pau .. the Lakers would be the winner of the trade .... the Knicks now have FOUR players that will give us what Pau Gasol brings to a team .. Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Rasheed.

    I will not be surprise this season when Amare comes back Melo take two weeks off with injury.

    I recorded Amare's pre-season game loss vs Toronto Raptors .. the 4th quarter of that game with Melo taking every shot on the offensive-end were to much to bare...

  7. #382
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The Lakers getting Amare for Pau .. the Lakers would be the winner of the trade .... the Knicks now have FOUR players that will give us what Pau Gasol brings to a team .. Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Rasheed.

    I will not be surprise this season when Amare comes back Melo take two weeks off with injury.

    I recorded Amare's pre-season game loss vs Toronto Raptors .. the 4th quarter of that game with Melo taking every shot on the offensive-end were to much to bare...
    I'm not saying the trade is realistic...but what's your argument against condensing what 4 people do, into one guy?

    You're right, Pau brings a bit of what Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Sheed brings to the team. Guess which 4 players on the Knicks will never be out there at the same time? ....Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Sheed. Unless we trot 7 or 8 guys out there and pray no one notices.

    If you can add a big who boards on both ends, has good handles for a guy 7'', a great interior passer, blocks shots, good weak side defender at the rim, plays decent post-D, posts up, can hit mid range shots at a pretty good clip, and knows how to play big - keep the ball above your shoulders to avoid those silly ass turnovers in the paint...how in the world do you justify not exploring getting that guy because you have 4 bodies that can do those things...that will never be on the court all at the same time?

    As it is, you're giving up some of those skills when certain Knicks are on the bench. If you have Pau, you have all of those skills on the court at your disposal, and when he sits, you still have viable options to come in for him.

    I'm not even gonna bring up Stoudemire. I just don't understand the logic of "we have 4 different guys, with varying skill-sets, that will never be out there at the same time....we don't need the versatile guy that can do everything they can for 30-35 mins a game."

  8. #383
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Lol you're still so down on Melo Kiya. He's doin better atm.

    May be time to cut him some slack.



    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The Lakers getting Amare for Pau .. the Lakers would be the winner of the trade .... the Knicks now have FOUR players that will give us what Pau Gasol brings to a team .. Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Rasheed.

    I will not be surprise this season when Amare comes back Melo take two weeks off with injury.

    I recorded Amare's pre-season game loss vs Toronto Raptors .. the 4th quarter of that game with Melo taking every shot on the offensive-end were to much to bare...

  9. #384
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Wasn't Amar'e one of the players on the Knicks that were disappointed that D'antoni had quit last season? Amar'e was signed by the Knicks because he was a D'antoni type of player that had past success under his system. Walsh's plan was for Mike D'antoni to have the right players to win a championship.


    And Dwight Howard hugging Stan Van Gundy to show he had nothing to do with the firing SVG at end of season must be ledgit lol

    Donnie Walsh was/is stupid and a Dum-Dum like owner Dolan .. in 2010 offseason the Knicks did not need anymore fowards .. we needed a Star PG, or a Star SG, or a star center

  10. #385
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    I'm not saying the trade is realistic...but what's your argument against condensing what 4 people do, into one guy?

    You're right, Pau brings a bit of what Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Sheed brings to the team. Guess which 4 players on the Knicks will never be out there at the same time? ....Tyson, Camby, Kurt, and Sheed. Unless we trot 7 or 8 guys out there and pray no one notices.

    If you can add a big who boards on both ends, has good handles for a guy 7'', a great interior passer, blocks shots, good weak side defender at the rim, plays decent post-D, posts up, can hit mid range shots at a pretty good clip, and knows how to play big - keep the ball above your shoulders to avoid those silly ass turnovers in the paint...how in the world do you justify not exploring getting that guy because you have 4 bodies that can do those things...that will never be on the court all at the same time?

    As it is, you're giving up some of those skills when certain Knicks are on the bench. If you have Pau, you have all of those skills on the court at your disposal, and when he sits, you still have viable options to come in for him.

    I'm not even gonna bring up Stoudemire. I just don't understand the logic of "we have 4 different guys, with varying skill-sets, that will never be out there at the same time....we don't need the versatile guy that can do everything they can for 30-35 mins a game."

    Dont get me wrong .. Pau would be a great addition to our bigmen frontcourt rotation, plus Pau's halfcourt game would fit well with Melo.
    Pau career perfomance has not reach the skill-set of Rasheed Wallace career performance ....

    u are mentioning the Pau Gasol in 2006 to 2009 who did all those things 32 minutes per game .. the 2010-11 Paul Gasol slowed-down to become a Halfcourt setting center u would put in a 4-man frontcourt rotation (PF & Center) for Pau team to be a contender.

  11. #386
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    Let's see what amare does when he comes back from injury first and if he does uss more harm then good then I think we should make a push for josh smith or paul milsap

  12. #387
    Superstar NYCLakerfan's Avatar
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    It's funny that Laker and Knicks fans feel the exact same way about their All star PF's.

    With Amare I actually think he'll play well when he returns I would be concerned with his health. Everytime he starts to play well or the Knicks really need a 2nd scorer he gets an injury and then the cycle continues.

    Gasol just looks out of it for some reason he doesn't have any intensity or urgency to his game and a trade might reignite him.

  13. #388
    Superstar NYCLakerfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    Im a big fan of the old Stat but this Stat is useless and is eating up our cap space. Even when hes healthy hes a liability on defense and his offense aint even close to what it was. I cant even count how many times i saw him get blocked, get called for a charge, or turn the ball over last year. Stat looks like hes about 35 years old out there. Even when he does come back, its very reasonable to question how long it will be before hes out again. Nothing im saying here is unfair.

    At the same time if he comes back and gets himself together offensively he could still help us. But we'd also need him to be an average defender. Thats not asking too much but I have seen very little from him to suggest he can even do that. I wanna root for the guy but he hasnt made it easy since the first half of his first year here...before Dantoni put the finishing touch on Amarknee's knees'
    I like Amare and I think his on the court problems were just a rough season last year I think he deserves atleast a 2nd chance to see some on court performance to determine whether he's done or not. But to me his health and actually staying on the court is the biggest concern or problem.

  14. #389
    Veteran BIG APPLE SPORTS's Avatar
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    Amare about to turn 30 in 2 days...ouch.

  15. #390
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Exclamation We'll be better WITH STAT


    I think STAT can help.

    We still aren't playing our best ball. Shump is out and our bigs aren't putting up numbers, specifically at the 4 (unless it's Melo, and I consider that out-of-position). We could use production out of the 4 and STAT should be better than our reserves.

    Also, coach has transformed our players outlook and approach to defense. Melo, JR,... everyone has bought in, so STAT cannot loaf.

    At full strength, the Knicks with STAT (playing at his best) are formidable. I say this knowing how disappointed I've been with STAT, and after analyzing us so far.

    We have benefitted partly from teams being hurt and undersized. I think with STAT and us clicking, NO ONE will want to see us. Meaning us at 100%.

    I love our early stats but I see room for improvement (sounds crazy being 5-0). That is how WE have to see this; we cannot be satisfied, we must find our weakness and get stronger. I believe when STAT fits in, Novak wakes up, and [if] Shump returns to full strength, we can go deep. Now it's "anyone can get hot" time. That can lead to us being cold, and having no contingencies when things aren't clicking.

    When we finally forge our identity/rotation etc..., STAT can be another weapon, as he is our best PF. Sheed and co. can hold it down, but STAT should be better. I hope.

    That includes defense and rebounding. Finally, if we don't work STAT back in to the fold, and we keep ascending without him... it will alienate him and we might lose his heart (meaning his toughness and guile) forever. That would be a waste of $ and an asset.

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