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Thread: 2012-13 JR Smith Player Performance and News Thread

  1. #196
    Member Fat Elvis's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I wonder what you guys here think about JR Smith and where he should play come the start of the season.

    I can see the logic of Woody and all the people here who think his potential scoring punch goes best with the 2nd unit coming off the bench. However I think he actually fits better in the starting 5, regardless of Iman being healthy or not.

    When Smith comes off the bench in Denver/NY he has to play alongside mostly a group of role players who are not hugely offensively talented. The team often looks for him to create his own shot in situations where we don't have much offensive flow. Smith is pretty good at creating but he's no Kobe and this is affecting his consistency.

    Playing alongside the wide variety of offensive prowess in our starting 5, Smith would have much more freedom to settle into his best game, scoring easy jumpers and fast break points. Playing alongside Tyson, STAT and Melo means plenty of open looks.

    I remember watching him a few years back in Denver during the playoffs where I think Azubuike was injured so Smith was starting and the 1-2 scoring punch of Melo and Smith was frightening in some games.

    Not to mention he obviously wants to start from his comments you can see he'd be a happier player as a starter.
    Totally agreed, though I DO think the Knicks need at least one person who can create their own shot coming off the bench.

    The knock on JR has always been his inconsistency and jacking up too many shots. In the starting 5, he would be kept in check in this regard - no way Melo and Amare would let him take shots away from them. Yet, he would definitely get a lot of open outside shots playing with those guys, and perhaps most importantly, he would SPREAD the floor so Amare and Melo would have more room to work downlow. This is why I think he would be so great in the starting lineup.

    As far as when Shump comes back, I love Shump's upside and don't have a problem with him being in the lineup, but only if he can bring his outside shooting numbers up. He seemed to really be improving his 3pt numbers at the end of last season, so I think this is a possibility.

    Without JR coming off the bench, I would be a little concerned about who would take the shots with the shotclock winding down. I think it's important that there's at least one guy who can create his own shot. Who would this be - Priogione? Brewer? Novak is awesome from the perimeter, but he needs guys to set him up. If defenses key in on him like Miami did in the playoffs last year, he becomes ineffective unless someone else steps up. Also, there was some good chemistry between JR and Novak last year, so I think there is something to be said for him coming off the bench.

    Overall, my ideal would be JR starting until Shump comes back, with Shump elevating his outside shooting to spread the floor at that point. And JR improving his shot selection. Overall, I love JR's energy (especially on the defensive end), and I think he was a steal at the price we got him.

  2. #197
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ghostowl
    I'm probably gonna get called out for saying this but STAT should be 6th man with JR replacing him...not as a PF ofc

    Ideal Lineup
    Chandler
    Melo
    JR Smith
    Shump
    Felton
    To be honest a first unit of

    Chandler
    Thomas
    Melo
    Smith
    Felton

    and a second unit of

    Camby
    STAT
    Novak
    Iman
    Kidd

    Might work out quite well. Obviously STAT would still get 30+ minutes but more of them with the second unit.

    But I still think JR would be better in the starting lineup that includes STAT.

  3. #198
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    Originally Posted by smokes
    To be honest a first unit of

    Chandler
    Thomas
    Melo
    Smith
    Felton

    and a second unit of

    Camby
    STAT
    Novak
    Iman
    Kidd

    Might work out quite well. Obviously STAT would still get 30+ minutes but more of them with the second unit.

    But I still think JR would be better in the starting lineup that includes STAT.
    It would be awesome if we can get some mad Nazi scientist and crossbreed two players into one.

    Kidd with Felton

    Iman with Smith

    Melo with Brewer

    Amare with Thomas

    Novak with Camby

    PG - Raymond Kidd
    SG - Iman Smith
    SF - Carmelo Brewer (Carmelo with Brewer's perimeter & man defense)
    PF - Amare Thomas (Amare with Kurt Thomas' post defense)
    C - Tyson Chandler (perfect center)

    Bench
    Prigioni
    Wallace
    Marcus Novak (3pt special, defensive specialist, rebounding, shot blocker, 6th man of the year)
    Chris Copeland
    Chris Smith
    James White

  4. #199
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    JR should start unless Brewer is healthy and when Shumpert is back JR and Brewer should split time at the 2 & 3 with Shump starting. It is good to have more then one guy who can create off the dribble or hit 3's while Melo is on the court.

    With all the hype from the Olympics and Melo torching in the preseason teams are going to adopt the let anyone but Melo beat us mentality. Having people on the floor he trusts to shoot will only help our offense.

  5. #200
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    Originally Posted by Ghostowl
    I'm probably gonna get called out for saying this but STAT should be 6th man with JR replacing him...not as a PF ofc

    Ideal Lineup
    Chandler
    Melo
    JR Smith
    Shump
    Felton
    Im sorry but as creative as this is.. there's not gonna be a $20M 6th player in the NBA...

  6. #201
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    JR should most definitely keep coming off the bench and embrace that roll kind of like James Harden has in OKC, the guy still gets 28+ mins and closes out games, he is a big part of the OKC rotation and doesnt complain about the role. JR is a whiny little B*tch if he keeps complaining, What happens when Shump comes back? Bench him? maybe but that leaves brewer hanging.

    Heres my 2 cents:

    Starters
    Chandler
    Stat
    Melo
    Shump
    Felton

    Bench
    Camby
    Thomas
    Brewer
    Smith
    Kidd

  7. #202
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    6th man, hands down.

    That's what he's made his money out of, coming off the bench with the swag and the spark.

    I think if you throw him into the start, he'll get messed up.

    Let him do what he does best, that is provide energy as a 6th.

  8. #203
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    Originally Posted by zshopa
    JR should most definitely keep coming off the bench and embrace that roll kind of like James Harden has in OKC
    Agreed. I always thought of JR Smith as our scoring punch off the bench. He would have to be more consistent and efficient before he can start games imo.

  9. #204
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    I dont think its about his consistency really. we have seen both sides of JR the good and the bad on and off the court. its not that hes not starting material. hes a great player but he demands the ball and unfortunately he wouldnt be any teams first option especially here. the only way he can get enough touches and shots is with the bench. guys like Jamal Crawford and Jason terry spent most of their careers as 6th men and have succeeded in that role. the consistency will come as he matures as a person and as a player but his energy and spark off the bench will always be a part of his game.

  10. #205
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    Honestly I like the starting lineup with JR in it. I'm always a big fan of playing your best 5 players out of the gate and I honestly think that JR is the 4th best player on the team and should be in the starting line up. This is especially true with the injuries to shump and brewer right now.

    Also JR is a great athlete and baller but has never fully attained his potential. This could be the type of thing that could motivate Swish to step up his game. If Woody gives him some shots at the staring lineup early on and he plays well and the team wins then I think he's earned it. He has certainly earned the chance to prove himself.

    I think Manu and Harden are different types of players. They are better suited to that 6th man, lead the rally troops kind of players. JR Smith coming off the bench simply looks to "get his" where as JR smith the starter looks to defend, pass, make plays and score efficiently.

    I know that the bench looks light on scoring with him in the starting lineup. But if we are asking Shump to increase his offensive output, why not put him in unit 2 and allow him to get more touches and looks? Certainly Kidd and Camby can still score effectively. Shump should be able to create a look, and essentially we shouldn't be doing entire Line changes like it's hockey, just subbing in for assignments on D and situational plays, and to give starters rest.

    JR Smith in the starting lineup gives us one of the most dangeour offensive starting lineups in the league. JR has Joe Johnson potential. Hell I'd say his ceiling is higher even as he's more athletic and can be a better defender. Just need to motivate him the right way.

  11. #206
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    Yea JR has potential, but he's happy with how far he has developed it. You don't get a sense of urgency from JR, you get a sense of contentment.

    JR is happy with how far he has come and this is 6th man spark plug.

    If he had ambition beyond being a 6th man spark plug, he would not have followed Melo to New York.

    Actions are louder than words and we see now, because he has followed Carmelo to repeat his Denver role, JR does not have ambition to be a starter in the league.

    We are very happy to have him as 6th man, much better than most 6th men in the league.

  12. #207
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    Honestly I like the starting lineup with JR in it. I'm always a big fan of playing your best 5 players out of the gate and I honestly think that JR is the 4th best player on the team and should be in the starting line up. This is especially true with the injuries to shump and brewer right now.
    Sorry man this just is not true. JR is not the 4th best player on the team. He may actually be the 3rd best scorer on the team, and he does play hustle Defense, but he requires the ball a little too much to be in the starting 5.

    I don't know how you can't see that JR with the 2nd unit and/or mixing him in with JUST Anthony or STAT would be more beneficial than starting him.

    If we stick a lockdown defender at the 2 who can shoot 3's, that's what we need....Not a dude that makes between the leg backwards bounce passes and fadeaway 3's.

    I love JR but starting?

  13. #208
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    I like Jr better as the sixth man, i think we really need his fire power off the bench, lets face it JR is probably the only one off the bench that cant get to the basket consistently + Jr has the ability to set up other players and who would want to break up that great chemistry between JR and Novak.

    Lets keep him as the 6th man our starters have enough fire power between Felton, Melo, & Stat and im sure tyson will get some easy buckets under the rim & some lobs

  14. #209
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    6th Man.

    Smith needs to realize his ceiling as a player is Jason Terry part 2. And that's where his value really comes alive at. To be in the starting lineup with our roster means to be muzzled and falling into place with the flow of Melo. Shump being a lockdown defender is much more important than having an erratic gun for hire. He needs to embrace his role as 6th man and own it.

  15. #210
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    Originally Posted by platnumn
    Sorry man this just is not true. JR is not the 4th best player on the team. He may actually be the 3rd best scorer on the team, and he does play hustle Defense, but he requires the ball a little too much to be in the starting 5.

    I don't know how you can't see that JR with the 2nd unit and/or mixing him in with JUST Anthony or STAT would be more beneficial than starting him.

    If we stick a lockdown defender at the 2 who can shoot 3's, that's what we need....Not a dude that makes between the leg backwards bounce passes and fadeaway 3's.

    I love JR but starting?
    Who is that right now? Chris Copeland? With injuries abound I'm hopeful that we will get to see JR step into the starting lineup and prove himself worthy of it. I think JR has great defensive potential and he's a better 3 point shooter then either Ronnie or Shump, when they return.

    I understand the idea of mixing him up with lineups of melo and STAT but he's itching to step into the starting role. Shump has potential but he's still "rook" on this team. He's been out injured for some time and could regress as a player because of it. Brewer is not a jump shooter and certainly not a 3point threat.

    JR smith helps stretch the defense in ways these guys can't. The 2nd unit has 3 point shooting with Kidd and Novak in it. On the starting lineup we have Melo and Felton. But in Felton's first run with the knicks he'd take a lot of bad 3 point shots and Fields got a lot of looks because of the defense on Gallo(melo) and felton. But JR is 2X the player Fields is and a better 3 point shooter then anyone else on the starting lineup.

    Also, if JR isn't the 4th best player on the team who is? Camby? Kidd? Shump? None of them are the all around talent and skill level of JR at this point in time.

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