Ray Felton vs. Jeremy Lin - the #'s may surprise you
Just found this comparison interesting. Sorry if this has already been posted & discussed on another thread, was not sure whether I should post this on the Felton thread or the Lin thread.
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Given the relative talents and relative costs of both players, is the decision to bring back Lin as clear cut as many fans think? Do the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] speak loud enough in favor of Felton as to trump whatever advantages that Lin may represent in terms of X's and O's?
Jeremy Lin
Age = 23
Total Value of New Deal = 3 years $25 million
Career Games With Knicks = 35 (25 started)
Points = 14.6
Assists = 6.29
Rebounds = 3
W-L Record = 20-15 Career Non-Knicks Stats = 2.6 PTS, 1.4 AST, 1.2 RBS
Raymond Felton
Age = 28
Total Value of New Deal = 3 years $10 million
Career Games With Knicks = 54
Points = 17.1
Assists = 9
Rebounds = 3.6
W-L Record = 28-26
Career Non-Knicks Stats = 12.8 PTS, 6.5 AST, 3.3 REB
*All stats via ESPN.com
The caveat to the stat breakdowns above is Jeremy Lin's averages as a starter over 25 games last year were: 18.2 points
7.7 assists
4.7 turnovers
So basically, both of these guys excelled in D'Antoni's uptempo style system, except Felton was able to do it over a longer stretch of games & was more of a ball facilitator while Lin was more of a ball dominant scorer.
We've seen that Mike Woodson prefers to play a more structured style of offense while D'Antoni allowed his players a lot more freedom to shoot at will. Which of the 2 PG's do you guys feel is the better match for our current roster, head coach & style of play? Jeremy Lin or Ray Felton?
Perhaps more importantly, who is more likely to be respected by Melo & STAT on the basketball court & in the lockerroom?
* Please let's not discuss anything about the contract that Jeremy Lin signed, or how stupid James Dolan was for not matching on this thread. I would like to hear your thoughts on which of these guys you feel is better suited for this current Knicks' team & why.
Just found this comparison interesting. Sorry if this has already been posted & discussed on another thread, was not sure whether I should post this on the Felton thread or the Lin thread.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
The caveat to the stat breakdowns above is Jeremy Lin's averages as a starter over 25 games last year were: 18.2 points
7.7 assists
4.7 turnovers
So basically, both of these guys excelled in D'Antoni's uptempo style system, except Felton was able to do it over a longer stretch of games & was more of a ball facilitator while Lin was more of a ball dominant scorer.
We've seen that Mike Woodson prefers to play a more structured style of offense while D'Antoni allowed his players a lot more freedom to shoot at will. Which of the 2 PG's do you guys feel is the better match for our current roster, head coach & style of play? Jeremy Lin or Ray Felton?
Perhaps more importantly, who is more likely to be respected by Melo & STAT on the basketball court & in the lockerroom?
* Please let's not discuss anything about the contract that Jeremy Lin signed, or how stupid James Dolan was for not matching on this thread. I would like to hear your thoughts on which of these guys you feel is better suited for this current Knicks' team & why.
woah woah woah....Dont bring actual factual evidence to this forum buddy, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?
Just found this comparison interesting. Sorry if this has already been posted & discussed on another thread, was not sure whether I should post this on the Felton thread or the Lin thread.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
The caveat to the stat breakdowns above is Jeremy Lin's averages as a starter over 25 games last year were: 18.2 points
7.7 assists
4.7 turnovers
So basically, both of these guys excelled in D'Antoni's uptempo style system, except Felton was able to do it over a longer stretch of games & was more of a ball facilitator while Lin was more of a ball dominant scorer.
We've seen that Mike Woodson prefers to play a more structured style of offense while D'Antoni allowed his players a lot more freedom to shoot at will. Which of the 2 PG's do you guys feel is the better match for our current roster, head coach & style of play? Jeremy Lin or Ray Felton?
Perhaps more importantly, who is more likely to be respected by Melo & STAT on the basketball court & in the lockerroom?
* Please let's not discuss anything about the contract that Jeremy Lin signed, or how stupid James Dolan was for not matching on this thread. I would like to hear your thoughts on which of these guys you feel is better suited for this current Knicks' team & why.
But my real response.
Lin has had THIS roster before, Felton has not.
In GAME SHAPE AND SLIM, I wanna see what Felton can do.
The way they made the comparison is terrible because when Lin wasn't starting he wasn't getting significant minutes. If they did the stats per minute and also accounted for PER it's a completely different story.
The way they made the comparison is terrible because when Lin wasn't starting he wasn't getting significant minutes. If they did the stats per minute and also accounted for PER it's a completely different story.
Understood, which is why I included the caveat about Lin's stats as a starter:
18.2 points
7.7 assists
4.7 turnovers 34 mpg
This is very similar production to what Ray Felton was able to provide as a starter:
17 points
9 assists 3.26 turnovers 38.4 mpg
As you can see, Felton averaged slightly less pts but did average slightly more assists & less turnovers than Lin as the starter.
So again, I ask you which of these guys do you think is better suited to run Mike Woodson's system & complement the rest of the players on this team? Would you rather have a PG who shoots the ball more but turns the ball over more as well? Or would you rather have a PG who looks to distribute the ball more & turns the ball over less?
Again, let's just keep the discussion solely based on basketball production & style of play here. Based on all of the above I happen to think Ray Felton is probably better suited to run Mike Woodson's system than Jeremy Lin, as much as I liked him & loved watching him play last year. I think Felton will not only be better suited to run this more structured style, but he will also garner more respect from our 2 main guys, STAT & Melo, which to me is key to any type of success this team will be able to achieve this season. Unless our team is focused on WINNING (& not necessarily on LINNING), I think we'll be fine. Felton never played with Melo so that's the 1 concern I have. Hopefully they'll be able to mesh just as well as Felton & STAT.
You're right, the numbers do look fairly comparable. Like the majority of us, I wanted Lin back bad, man...BAD. I still can't believe how this thing went down..I blame both the Knicks and Lin -- the Knicks should've been more aggressive, at least in keeping communications open thoughout the process and then Lin didn't have to use the Knicks for leverage the way he did...So disappointed how things shook out, but hey, that's life..Not the first time us Knick fans got burned on something and it won't be the last.
As the dust cleared on this thing, I think we're left with a hell of a PG in Felton. Nice fallback plan that unfortunately had to be executed.. Thank God it was out there..Debatable whether we gave up too much to bring Ray back (forget Jeffries and Gadz -- for the 2nd rounder, Gerorgios & Pap and the leftover cash, I really wanted Jon Diebler back to balance things out a little better but whatever -- bottom line is that we got a very solid NBA PG replacement right in his prime -- a guy who thrived here before and wants to be here...a guy that won a national championship in college -- so for that I'm thankful) but in the end, I think this is gonna work out very well for the Knicks. The Knicks definitely got back a lot of value with Felton for the money, that's for sure..Felton was great here the first go-around and I look for the same type of play this time as well. He prob. won't average 17+ ppg this time and you know what, he shouldn't have to. He'll pick his spots to score and run a great show. All any of us can ask of him and I think he's up for the challenge..Really looking forward to him kickstarting Amar'e again -- it took time but eventually those 2 had very good chemistry the 1st time out.. I for one don't wanna see STAT take a backseat to Melo anymore -- STAT came here first and played like an MVP his first year as a Knick -- this is every bit his team as it is Melo's if you ask me. Really looking forward to Felton re-establishing STAT as a dominant force one again. That's one of the biggest keys to the season imo...Anyway, yeah, Ray's a gamer -- just listening to him talk to Breeny and Clyde the other day on a SL telecast got me really pumped up and excited he's back. I think he's gonna come in here in shape, focused and ready to go. Can't wait. I just wanna see the Knicks come up with 1 more 2G and maybe one more frontline big that can score a little inside..Then I think we'll be ready to roll.
I'd still take and in shape Felton over LIN any day, because Felton has a proven track record of being a good pass first PG, who knows how to protect the ball.Those stats even show it, during lin's best run he was still turnover pron, and IMO shot the ball way to much.Felton had STAT looking like an MVP candidate, while Lin didn't seem to have chemistry with either of our 2 stars, maybe he needed more time, but i know what Felton and STAT had going.I'm not knocking Lin, because he has upside, but that third year is to much of a gamble IMO.
I'd still take and in shape Felton over LIN any day, because Felton has a proven track record of being a good pass first PG, who knows how to protect the ball.Those stats even show it, during lin's best run he was still turnover pron, and IMO shot the ball way to much.Felton had STAT looking like an MVP candidate, while Lin didn't seem to have chemistry with either of our 2 stars, maybe he needed more time, but i know what Felton and STAT had going.I'm not knocking Lin, because he has upside, but that third year is to much of a gamble IMO.
I fear Feltons ability to elevate the play of his teammates, even thog he is a better passer than Lin.
If Ray can average 12 and 9 assist, he's worth the money.
Also remember, and this is extremely important for us, with jason kidd being less durable in his elder years.
Raymond felton through his career has been a warrior, including last year where he was out of shape, he barely misses games, and if he does he recovers quickly,
There isnt a chance in hell no matter what the injury barring an ACL or MCL tear; that raymond felton sits out of the playoffs last year
Jeremy Lin is coming off of surgery and showed that he was a liability on the defensive end when logging alot of minutes;
Raymond felton is the better defender, and turns the ball over much less
which in the playoffs durability, defense, and not turning the ball over are more key to success, than ppg and assist pg.
I fear Feltons ability to elevate the play of his teammates, even thog he is a better passer than Lin.
If Ray can average 12 and 9 assist, he's worth the money.
you are telling me that a player needs to average 12 points and rank top 5 in the league in assists which is what 9 assists per game would do, to match his value of 3 million dollars a year ?
I expect a 3 million dollar point guard to average 8 ppg and 5 assists per game in order to be worth 3 million a year
if felton average 12 ppg and 9 assists a game with 1-2 steals
i would say hes excelling beyond his paycheck.
I agree metro that if he drops 12 - 9 i would be ultimately satisfied, but lets not forgot
felton and kidd and prignoni combined will cost less than jeremy lin himself.
Ray Felton vs. Jeremy Lin - the #'s may surprise you
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