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Thread: Ray Felton vs. Jeremy Lin - the #'s may surprise you

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    Default Ray Felton vs. Jeremy Lin - the #'s may surprise you

    Just found this comparison interesting. Sorry if this has already been posted & discussed on another thread, was not sure whether I should post this on the Felton thread or the Lin thread.


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    Given the relative talents and relative costs of both players, is the decision to bring back Lin as clear cut as many fans think? Do the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] speak loud enough in favor of Felton as to trump whatever advantages that Lin may represent in terms of X's and O's?

    Jeremy Lin
    Age = 23
    Total Value of New Deal = 3 years $25 million
    Career Games With Knicks = 35 (25 started)
    Points = 14.6
    Assists = 6.29
    Rebounds = 3
    W-L Record = 20-15
    Career Non-Knicks Stats = 2.6 PTS, 1.4 AST, 1.2 RBS

    Raymond Felton
    Age = 28
    Total Value of New Deal = 3 years $10 million
    Career Games With Knicks = 54
    Points = 17.1
    Assists = 9
    Rebounds = 3.6
    W-L Record = 28-26
    Career Non-Knicks Stats = 12.8 PTS, 6.5 AST, 3.3 REB

    *All stats via ESPN.com
    The caveat to the stat breakdowns above is Jeremy Lin's averages as a starter over 25 games last year were:
    18.2 points
    7.7 assists
    4.7 turnovers


    So basically, both of these guys excelled in D'Antoni's uptempo style system, except Felton was able to do it over a longer stretch of games & was more of a ball facilitator while Lin was more of a ball dominant scorer.

    We've seen that Mike Woodson prefers to play a more structured style of offense while D'Antoni allowed his players a lot more freedom to shoot at will. Which of the 2 PG's do you guys feel is the better match for our current roster, head coach & style of play? Jeremy Lin or Ray Felton?

    Perhaps more importantly, who is more likely to be respected by Melo & STAT on the basketball court & in the lockerroom?

    * Please let's not discuss anything about the contract that Jeremy Lin signed, or how stupid James Dolan was for not matching on this thread. I would like to hear your thoughts on which of these guys you feel is better suited for this current Knicks' team & why.
    Last edited by STAT1; Jul 22, 2012 at 00:52.

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    ★Melo Mafia★ NY17KNICKS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Just found this comparison interesting. Sorry if this has already been posted & discussed on another thread, was not sure whether I should post this on the Felton thread or the Lin thread.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



    The caveat to the stat breakdowns above is Jeremy Lin's averages as a starter over 25 games last year were:
    18.2 points
    7.7 assists
    4.7 turnovers


    So basically, both of these guys excelled in D'Antoni's uptempo style system, except Felton was able to do it over a longer stretch of games & was more of a ball facilitator while Lin was more of a ball dominant scorer.

    We've seen that Mike Woodson prefers to play a more structured style of offense while D'Antoni allowed his players a lot more freedom to shoot at will. Which of the 2 PG's do you guys feel is the better match for our current roster, head coach & style of play? Jeremy Lin or Ray Felton?

    Perhaps more importantly, who is more likely to be respected by Melo & STAT on the basketball court & in the lockerroom?

    * Please let's not discuss anything about the contract that Jeremy Lin signed, or how stupid James Dolan was for not matching on this thread. I would like to hear your thoughts on which of these guys you feel is better suited for this current Knicks' team & why.
    woah woah woah....Dont bring actual factual evidence to this forum buddy, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

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    Originally Posted by STAT1
    Just found this comparison interesting. Sorry if this has already been posted & discussed on another thread, was not sure whether I should post this on the Felton thread or the Lin thread.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



    The caveat to the stat breakdowns above is Jeremy Lin's averages as a starter over 25 games last year were:
    18.2 points
    7.7 assists
    4.7 turnovers


    So basically, both of these guys excelled in D'Antoni's uptempo style system, except Felton was able to do it over a longer stretch of games & was more of a ball facilitator while Lin was more of a ball dominant scorer.

    We've seen that Mike Woodson prefers to play a more structured style of offense while D'Antoni allowed his players a lot more freedom to shoot at will. Which of the 2 PG's do you guys feel is the better match for our current roster, head coach & style of play? Jeremy Lin or Ray Felton?

    Perhaps more importantly, who is more likely to be respected by Melo & STAT on the basketball court & in the lockerroom?

    * Please let's not discuss anything about the contract that Jeremy Lin signed, or how stupid James Dolan was for not matching on this thread. I would like to hear your thoughts on which of these guys you feel is better suited for this current Knicks' team & why.
    But my real response.
    Lin has had THIS roster before, Felton has not.

    In GAME SHAPE AND SLIM, I wanna see what Felton can do.

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    this has already been discussed before in the lin thread

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    The way they made the comparison is terrible because when Lin wasn't starting he wasn't getting significant minutes. If they did the stats per minute and also accounted for PER it's a completely different story.

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    Originally Posted by munco
    The way they made the comparison is terrible because when Lin wasn't starting he wasn't getting significant minutes. If they did the stats per minute and also accounted for PER it's a completely different story.
    Understood, which is why I included the caveat about Lin's stats as a starter:

    18.2 points
    7.7 assists
    4.7 turnovers

    34 mpg

    This is very similar production to what Ray Felton was able to provide as a starter:

    17 points
    9 assists

    3.26 turnovers
    38.4 mpg

    As you can see, Felton averaged slightly less pts but did average slightly more assists & less turnovers than Lin as the starter.

    So again, I ask you which of these guys do you think is better suited to run Mike Woodson's system & complement the rest of the players on this team? Would you rather have a PG who shoots the ball more but turns the ball over more as well? Or would you rather have a PG who looks to distribute the ball more & turns the ball over less?

    Again, let's just keep the discussion solely based on basketball production & style of play here. Based on all of the above I happen to think Ray Felton is probably better suited to run Mike Woodson's system than Jeremy Lin, as much as I liked him & loved watching him play last year. I think Felton will not only be better suited to run this more structured style, but he will also garner more respect from our 2 main guys, STAT & Melo, which to me is key to any type of success this team will be able to achieve this season. Unless our team is focused on WINNING (& not necessarily on LINNING), I think we'll be fine. Felton never played with Melo so that's the 1 concern I have. Hopefully they'll be able to mesh just as well as Felton & STAT.

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    Originally Posted by WeReady
    this has already been discussed before in the lin thread
    Sorry I must have missed it. Just wanted to chime in with my take. I rarely start threads anyway. If mods want to merge feel free.

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    You're right, the numbers do look fairly comparable. Like the majority of us, I wanted Lin back bad, man...BAD. I still can't believe how this thing went down..I blame both the Knicks and Lin -- the Knicks should've been more aggressive, at least in keeping communications open thoughout the process and then Lin didn't have to use the Knicks for leverage the way he did...So disappointed how things shook out, but hey, that's life..Not the first time us Knick fans got burned on something and it won't be the last.

    As the dust cleared on this thing, I think we're left with a hell of a PG in Felton. Nice fallback plan that unfortunately had to be executed.. Thank God it was out there..Debatable whether we gave up too much to bring Ray back (forget Jeffries and Gadz -- for the 2nd rounder, Gerorgios & Pap and the leftover cash, I really wanted Jon Diebler back to balance things out a little better but whatever -- bottom line is that we got a very solid NBA PG replacement right in his prime -- a guy who thrived here before and wants to be here...a guy that won a national championship in college -- so for that I'm thankful) but in the end, I think this is gonna work out very well for the Knicks. The Knicks definitely got back a lot of value with Felton for the money, that's for sure..Felton was great here the first go-around and I look for the same type of play this time as well. He prob. won't average 17+ ppg this time and you know what, he shouldn't have to. He'll pick his spots to score and run a great show. All any of us can ask of him and I think he's up for the challenge..Really looking forward to him kickstarting Amar'e again -- it took time but eventually those 2 had very good chemistry the 1st time out.. I for one don't wanna see STAT take a backseat to Melo anymore -- STAT came here first and played like an MVP his first year as a Knick -- this is every bit his team as it is Melo's if you ask me. Really looking forward to Felton re-establishing STAT as a dominant force one again. That's one of the biggest keys to the season imo...Anyway, yeah, Ray's a gamer -- just listening to him talk to Breeny and Clyde the other day on a SL telecast got me really pumped up and excited he's back. I think he's gonna come in here in shape, focused and ready to go. Can't wait. I just wanna see the Knicks come up with 1 more 2G and maybe one more frontline big that can score a little inside..Then I think we'll be ready to roll.
    Last edited by finestrg; Jul 22, 2012 at 09:36.

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    I'd still take and in shape Felton over LIN any day, because Felton has a proven track record of being a good pass first PG, who knows how to protect the ball.Those stats even show it, during lin's best run he was still turnover pron, and IMO shot the ball way to much.Felton had STAT looking like an MVP candidate, while Lin didn't seem to have chemistry with either of our 2 stars, maybe he needed more time, but i know what Felton and STAT had going.I'm not knocking Lin, because he has upside, but that third year is to much of a gamble IMO.

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    Originally Posted by NY17KNICKS
    But my real response.
    Lin has had THIS roster before, Felton has not.

    In GAME SHAPE AND SLIM, I wanna see what Felton can do.
    This is true. Felton only had Amare, Gallo and Wilson Chandler. Lin had Amare, Melo, Tyson, Shumpert, and J.R Smith.

    I will like to see how much better Felton plays with basically his best lineup he has ever been in as an NBA PG.

    Lin is more a ball dominant scorer, which takes away the games of Melo and Amare. However, I believe that a PG that dominates the ball are the PG's that either just score like Lou Williams or can dish and swish like Derrick Rose.

    Felton is a great fit, to say he is a better fit is up for debate because I believe Lin is the better player and I believe his court vision is under rated and he can make other players better but he didn't have enough time with the stars to prove it to the naysayers.

    However, Felton can produce similar if not better numbers than what Lin did last season and at a cheaper cost, especially in that 3rd year.

    Felton is a tough dude that can fly up the court if his weight is down, which it already looks like it is and his best friend confirmed Felton is already down 15 pounds from last season.

    Keep it up Ray Ray, time to shine again.

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    A few points:

    1. Felton played very well when he was here, showed heart and deserved to stay. I'm happy for him that he is back. I'm sure he will play well for us again.

    2. Lin is unproven at this point, but he was a gift that fell into Dolan's lap. He let's Lin go out and get an offer, then brings in Kidd and Felton in the middle of it all, then bad mouths Lin for accepting Rocket's offer.

    3. Dolan could have offered Lin a decent 3 year deal before all this Rocket stuff was put in play. Lin would probably have been happy to accept a decent Knick offer.

    4. Lin is 23, had the Garden rocking, Dolan's MSG stock increased by millions, Lin jerseys could not be made fast enough...............and Dolan wants us to beleive he let Lin go because it did not make business sense!

    5. Lin may wind up decent, above average, or great. Either way we let a real asset go with zero in return.

    6. Oh, and Melo had nothing to do with Lin leaving town?

    Just my .

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    Rockets fans think lin is going to average 22 and 10 LOLOL

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    Originally Posted by knickerbocka176
    Rockets fans think lin is going to average 22 and 10 LOLOL
    I think Lin will average somewhere around 18 & 8 w/5 turnovers per. Solid #'s but probably not what we need our PG to give us at this point. I'll be happy if Felton can give us 14 & 7 while providing leadership on the basketball court, stabilizing the offense & not turning the ball over.

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    Felton should be better on d and honestly if we slow it down his ball security will be big for us. I don't think we have worry about a guy like chalmers shutting Felton down.

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    Originally Posted by knickerbocka176
    Rockets fans think lin is going to average 22 and 10 LOLOL
    Thats not really surprising, he will be their #1 option, play a pick up game where you are holding the ball 90% of the time and you will have good numbers..

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