Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 62

Thread: Are we undervaluing our roster this season, simply because its the New York Knicks?

  1. #31
    Superstar MSGhobo247's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    MSG
    Posts
    794
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Overall we should of received a B.

    Our backcourt and bench is better then what they say it is but I guess no one will be convinced until the season starts.

  2. #32
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chinabury
    Posts
    3,313
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Horrible job done by nba.com, all they said about Kurt Thomas was that hes old. SMFH the dude can still ball, I agree with what MSGhobo said too. To give us a C is a little disrespectful, our backcourt will be more like a C+ or B-, Felton and Kidd both have a handful of players to dish too that can finish above the rim. If Stat stays healthy he indirectly makes those two better, their styles mesh well. Chandler will work well with Ray and Kidd too. Stat really needs to come through, hes the biggest factor for this team. SMH at them blaming Stats softness on Melo

  3. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    121
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Great Thread Topic .. the undervalue of Knicks teams

    The comunication level of Knicks players as a same-page team has drop tremendously low each season after the 1998 offseason trade of Oakley/Starks.
    Our poor coaching-staff had alot to do with the poor relationship of Knicks players being on the same-page for over a decade.

    Oakley were our top-strong frontcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
    This 2012-13 season our best top frontcourt leadership player goes to "Kurt Thomas" experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the lockerroom.

    John Starks were our top-strong backcourt leadership player on the court, and in the lockerroom.
    This 2012-13 season our best top backcourt leadership player goes to "Jason Kidd" veteran experience in keeping his team on the same-page on the court, on the bench, and in the Lockerroom.

    We have put together a serious optimistic Knicks roster together of Star-Players in the 2012 offseason to win the Atlantic Division Championship, however our best team-complimentary-players on the roster lies in "Player-Coach Jason Kidd and Kurt Thomas" being accepted by coaching-staff & players as the Knicks # 1 leadership players.

    The Knicks past decade of seasons consisted of a divided-lockerroom of players that didnt accept certain teammates performance, which lead to all the players trying to be the team scoring "savior" with individual-plays.
    All the high five shoulder jumping looked good for team morality after a good Knicks play, but the team high-shoulder bumps never came close to weigh above all the teams poor-performances on offense/defense.

    All the experience veteran players added to the Knicks roster in the offseason are a reward to headcoach Mike Woodson difficult job at getting two $100M contract EGO-players to co-exist as a teammates. The two players are two damn SELFISH to be anyteams leadership-player....which give reason to undervalue a decent Knicks roster.

    u dont have to be a genious or a rocket-scientist to know Carmelo Anthony did not accept (Big-Shot) Chuancey Billups strong leadership role taking control over the Denver Nuggets players, nor did Carmelo accept the young D.Leaguer Lin-Sanity super-star role as the Knicks floor leader being accepted by all Knicks teammates, plus being accepted by NBA fans worldwide for providing a team-leadership on the Knicks that Melo & Amare could not provide.

    +1,000,000

    First losing streak of the season and the big EGO selfish loser will quit on the coach and team.

  4. #34
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,193
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    I am going to say this when the knicks traded for Melo I was pissed cause I knew they were throwing that season and the one after it away because of all the trash they took. No team recovers that quickly and obviously the Nuggets got every resource available in that trade.

    2 seasons later and the knicks finally have some depth at all the positions necessary to actually play well and they will be a defense first team. I like there odds and I think the analyst are downgrading them because they have under performed these last 2 seasons. Now however, all the major factors that usually led to those bad results have been corrected.

    Hell it hurts me a little to say this but it looks like if they had overpaid Lin, it would of led to some sour feelings during the season. So it was smart to let him go cause the Knicks need no drama this year if they are going to outperform the reputation of being a low playoff seed team.

  5. #35
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Great post Zeke!

    Very objective, though I think you're being a little hard on this roster.

    Melo and Amare had a season to struggle and get to know one another. I think there's a good chance those hard times will pay dividends re chemistry.

    Felton while a question mark has anwered some of hi scritics by getting himself in what looks to be at worst decent shape. He should round (no pun intended) in to form by season's start. He is also partly responsible for one of Amare's best years. It'll be good for Amare to have him back.

    And while I think Kidd and Camby are old/limited in what they can do, they both have enough left in the tank to really help us.

    Idk.. we've got size, good guard play, two prolific scorers and (barring Amare and Novak) solid defenders at multiple positions.

    My biggest question mark, and anyone can feel free to challenge me on this, is Woodson.

    He too me is just not a v good coach.

    MDA while flawed fundamentally was plain and simple a flat out better coach IMO.

    Woodson's unimaginative offense and questionable decision making leave me somewhat weary of his performance going into this season.

    He has a lot to prove. He's really done nothing in the league since he's been coaching.
    You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.

  6. #36
    Moderator
    CoolClyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bronx
    Posts
    2,477
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.

    rep

  7. #37
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,323
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    ^Agreed + rep

    Woodson is a better coach and is very well suited to the roster. Not sure if there is another coach out there that is a better fit? He seems to have the respect of the team (at the very least TC, STAT and Melo) at this point.

    I personally do not undervalue this roster but I know that the media is. Particularly glaring mistakes (like letting Lin walk) outshine the quiet awesomeness that grunwald has pulled off (Kidd, Camby, KT, Brewer, Novak, Felton).

    I expect that we will finish #2 or #3 seed with about 50 wins with this roster, which is the best roster the knicks have had in my lifetime.

  8. #38
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    402
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.
    This, alot of the criticism towards Woodson was based on his time with the Hawks and then our recent playoff run.

    It's totally unfair to use the fact that over his 5 year tenure the Hawks on average only won about 35 games per year. The first 2-3 years of Woody there were a slow rebuilding phase where he had to develop J Smith and other younger players. People forget that his Atlanta team took the 08 CELTICS to 7 games the the ECSF, only mentioning their massive lopsided sweep at the hands of the Magic.

    I shouldn't need to explain this for proper Knicks fans who actually watched us VS the heat but people constantly rip on him for not getting Novak enough plays. A key part of getting Novak open relies on penetration from our guards, when your relying on Bibby to penetrate through Wade/Chalmers you know that your decimated with injuries.

    One thing that impresses me so much about Woodson is how great he is at drawing up defensive plays on the last play of the game. Remember Rose throwing up and airball for the last shot in our OT win against the Bulls. Or our sole win against Miami when Wade jacked a shot from the sideline. The media says that Rose & Wade just had to take a bad shot, but WHAT made them take that bad shot!? Woodson draws up great plays and has the personnel and the time this year to instill his system. Can't wait!


    On a side note, has everyone heard ESPN jizzing about a possible lineup of:
    Wade/Allen/Battier/Lebron/Bosh on offense, im more keen to see:
    Shumpert/Brewer/Melo/Camby/Chandler guarding them!

  9. #39
    12th man
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono
    Posts
    11,260
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Deepest bench in the NBA.

  10. #40
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Default I hear you.

    Originally Posted by knicksman20
    You had me till you got to the bolded portion. Coach Woody is superior in every facet of coaching to our last "coach". He's more balanced, seems like he's handling ego's better, actually calls plays & uses timeouts wisely, preaches defense, & the most important he hold players accountable. D'Antoni was an epic FAIL in all the things listed. Woody's record after Pringles was ousted speaks for itself. Woody is definitely a fit for this team, & the players respond to him.
    Maybe you're right. We'll see..

    Going to try to keep my mind open. Though if you're objective, you will agree that he really has done nothing in his career to prove he's much better than an average coach.

    Look at his coaching career:



    Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
    ATL 2004–05 82 13 69 .159 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2005–06 82 26 56 .317 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2006–07 82 30 52 .366 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2007–08 82 37 45 .451 3rd in Southeast 7 3 4 .429 Lost in First Round
    ATL 2008–09 82 47 35 .580 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
    ATL 2009–10 82 53 29 .646 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
    NYK 2011–12 24 18 6 .750 2nd in Atlantic 5 1 4 .200 Lost in First Round
    Career 516 224 292 .434 34 12 22 .353

    He really hasn't done anything.. yet.

  11. #41
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    402
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Maybe you're right. We'll see..

    Going to try to keep my mind open. Though if you're objective, you will agree that he really has done nothing in his career to prove he's much better than an average coach.

    Look at his coaching career:



    Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
    ATL 2004–05 82 13 69 .159 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2005–06 82 26 56 .317 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2006–07 82 30 52 .366 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2007–08 82 37 45 .451 3rd in Southeast 7 3 4 .429 Lost in First Round
    ATL 2008–09 82 47 35 .580 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
    ATL 2009–10 82 53 29 .646 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
    NYK 2011–12 24 18 6 .750 2nd in Atlantic 5 1 4 .200 Lost in First Round
    Career 516 224 292 .434 34 12 22 .353

    He really hasn't done anything.. yet.
    in his defence he joined Atlanta at the start of their rebuilding phase so the first 3-4 years were always going to be poor. Did show marked improvement every year in the Hawks record.

  12. #42
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chinabury
    Posts
    3,313
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    In my opinion he proved hes somewhere between average and good as a coach. Sometimes a coaches record can be misleading, lets take Dantoni for example. He had great success in Phoenix but it was really Nash, Matrix, and Stat that had great success. As a matter of fact i havent seen much to convince me yet that Amare and Mike D shouldnt at least give half the money they made post-Phoenix to Nash

  13. #43
    Moderator
    CoolClyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bronx
    Posts
    2,477
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    ...Look at his coaching career:

    Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
    ATL 2004–05 82 13 69 .159 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2005–06 82 26 56 .317 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2006–07 82 30 52 .366 5th in Southeast — — — — Missed Playoffs
    ATL 2007–08 82 37 45 .451 3rd in Southeast 7 3 4 .429 Lost in First Round
    ATL 2008–09 82 47 35 .580 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
    ATL 2009–10 82 53 29 .646 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 .364 Lost in Conf. Semifinals
    NYK 2011–12 24 18 6 .750 2nd in Atlantic 5 1 4 .200 Lost in First Round
    Career 516 224 292 .434 34 12 22 .353

    He really hasn't done anything.. yet.

    dislike! haha. thanks Rono, for pointing out how his team's record improved each and every year!

    this year's Knicks squad has a core who has played together, the addition of savvy veterans who know how to play and win, and the mobbest deepest bench in the league. not to mention a better slew of PG's, a better defensive mindset and defensive players overall. Woodson has a fine team at his disposal, watch them run rampant over the NBA!
    i've got Wood, son!

  14. #44
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    dislike! haha. thanks Rono, for pointing out how his team's record improved each and every year!

    this year's Knicks squad has a core who has played together, the addition of savvy veterans who know how to play and win, and the mobbest deepest bench in the league. not to mention a better slew of PG's, a better defensive mindset and defensive players overall. Woodson has a fine team at his disposal, watch them run rampant over the NBA!
    i've got Wood, son!
    Woodson showed improvement, yes. But w the talent he had I think he should have been able to do more in the playoffs and it should also have translated into more consistency in the regular season..

    History shows that his so-called improvement got him nothing but walking paperz. Wonder why that was? His record speaks.

  15. #45
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    In my opinion he proved hes somewhere between average and good as a coach. Sometimes a coaches record can be misleading, lets take Dantoni for example. He had great success in Phoenix but it was really Nash, Matrix, and Stat that had great success. As a matter of fact i havent seen much to convince me yet that Amare and Mike D shouldnt at least give half the money they made post-Phoenix to Nash
    If what you're asserting holds any water explain to me why Nash hasn't done anything without D'ant and Amare?

    No 50+ win seasons

    No deep playoff runs.

    Nada.

    Nash was integral, but it wasn't all about him.

Similar Threads

  1. the PO
    By 6thman in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Jan 25, 2012, 20:10
  2. Replies: 32
    Last Post: May 21, 2011, 13:14
  3. Christmas Day: Bulls @ Knicks
    By jpz17 in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Dec 26, 2010, 11:41
  4. ESPN's take on NY
    By Crazy⑧s in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Oct 13, 2009, 09:44
  5. Exclusive: ESPN Writers Poll : Summer of 2010
    By ____I♥NY____ in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sep 04, 2009, 23:27

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •