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Thread: Are we undervaluing our roster this season, simply because its the New York Knicks?

  1. #46
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
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    rono: yes his record does speak for itself. Has that atlanta team been able to get deep into the playoffs with another coach? Were they even able to replicate his 53 win season? He built that team up as far as they could go with the talent he was given.

    Then he steps into the spotlight in MSG and gives us 18-6 with a win against the eventual Champs (which is as much as OKC was able to do) All while dealing with the Lin saga, injuries to Melo, STAT, Lin and Shump and having to clean up the mess D'antoni left him.

    He held players accountable, put us back in the playoff picture, gave the players direction for their offseason training, and will be the same tough nose, no-nonsense, defensive minded coach that Knicks fan's love.

    I've got to say i'm pretty confident in Woodson as a coach for this roster. I believe that certain teams and coaches fit better together.

    In the case of D'antoni his system was built for a run the floor kind of team. With Nash, Johnson, Matrix and Amare he had the kind of small ball, fast as hell team that he thrived with. When he came to NYK he was originally looking at a team that was rebuilding, in to what he thought would be PHX-east. But it turned into a half court team with the Melo trade and his system was not set up to use a 3/4 like Melo who thrives in half-court sets, making his system/coaching style mismatched for the roster.

    With Woodson you see a defensive minded coach with very offensive minded players in ATL. Joe Johnson (d'ant pupil) Al Horford, Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford etc are all more known for their offensive output then their defensive toughness. He was not matched up with the kind of players he prefers. (remember he was a defensive guru for the 2004 Pistons.) Yet he was able to build that team up from a 13 win club into a 53 win club with a marked winning % improvement every year.

    Now we get to see him with a team BUILT for him. Tyson Chandler, Camby, KT, Kidd, Felton, Shump, JR Smith are all above average to great defensive players.

    Then with two offensive weapons in MELO and STAT he's given them orders to improve their conditoning and defensive effort this year. If Woodson is able to get MELO and STAT to play defense we are set up for a GREAT season. We have the right mix of players and coaching personnel to get the job done.

    I have every confidence in this coach for this team. If D'antoni was still the coach I'd be worried but with Woody at the helm I'm not.

  2. #47
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    rono: yes his record does speak for itself. Has that atlanta team been able to get deep into the playoffs with another coach? Were they even able to replicate his 53 win season? He built that team up as far as they could go with the talent he was given.

    Then he steps into the spotlight in MSG and gives us 18-6 with a win against the eventual Champs (which is as much as OKC was able to do) All while dealing with the Lin saga, injuries to Melo, STAT, Lin and Shump and having to clean up the mess D'antoni left him.

    He held players accountable, put us back in the playoff picture, gave the players direction for their offseason training, and will be the same tough nose, no-nonsense, defensive minded coach that Knicks fan's love.

    I've got to say i'm pretty confident in Woodson as a coach for this roster. I believe that certain teams and coaches fit better together.

    In the case of D'antoni his system was built for a run the floor kind of team. With Nash, Johnson, Matrix and Amare he had the kind of small ball, fast as hell team that he thrived with. When he came to NYK he was originally looking at a team that was rebuilding, in to what he thought would be PHX-east. But it turned into a half court team with the Melo trade and his system was not set up to use a 3/4 like Melo who thrives in half-court sets, making his system/coaching style mismatched for the roster.

    With Woodson you see a defensive minded coach with very offensive minded players in ATL. Joe Johnson (d'ant pupil) Al Horford, Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford etc are all more known for their offensive output then their defensive toughness. He was not matched up with the kind of players he prefers. (remember he was a defensive guru for the 2004 Pistons.) Yet he was able to build that team up from a 13 win club into a 53 win club with a marked winning % improvement every year.

    Now we get to see him with a team BUILT for him. Tyson Chandler, Camby, KT, Kidd, Felton, Shump, JR Smith are all above average to great defensive players.

    Then with two offensive weapons in MELO and STAT he's given them orders to improve their conditoning and defensive effort this year. If Woodson is able to get MELO and STAT to play defense we are set up for a GREAT season. We have the right mix of players and coaching personnel to get the job done.

    I have every confidence in this coach for this team. If D'antoni was still the coach I'd be worried but with Woody at the helm I'm not.

    ahhh, what a sweet response, p0nderino! totally agreed.
    also, by the time playoffs rolled around, old men Baron and Bibson were running the show, and the Bib alone by game 5. Knicks have shored up the PG position, which as most knowledgeable fans know, is the most important position on a winning Knicks squadron.

  3. #48
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    rono: yes his record does speak for itself. Has that atlanta team been able to get deep into the playoffs with another coach? Were they even able to replicate his 53 win season? He built that team up as far as they could go with the talent he was given.

    Then he steps into the spotlight in MSG and gives us 18-6 with a win against the eventual Champs (which is as much as OKC was able to do) All while dealing with the Lin saga, injuries to Melo, STAT, Lin and Shump and having to clean up the mess D'antoni left him.

    He held players accountable, put us back in the playoff picture, gave the players direction for their offseason training, and will be the same tough nose, no-nonsense, defensive minded coach that Knicks fan's love.

    I've got to say i'm pretty confident in Woodson as a coach for this roster. I believe that certain teams and coaches fit better together.

    In the case of D'antoni his system was built for a run the floor kind of team. With Nash, Johnson, Matrix and Amare he had the kind of small ball, fast as hell team that he thrived with. When he came to NYK he was originally looking at a team that was rebuilding, in to what he thought would be PHX-east. But it turned into a half court team with the Melo trade and his system was not set up to use a 3/4 like Melo who thrives in half-court sets, making his system/coaching style mismatched for the roster.

    With Woodson you see a defensive minded coach with very offensive minded players in ATL. Joe Johnson (d'ant pupil) Al Horford, Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford etc are all more known for their offensive output then their defensive toughness. He was not matched up with the kind of players he prefers. (remember he was a defensive guru for the 2004 Pistons.) Yet he was able to build that team up from a 13 win club into a 53 win club with a marked winning % improvement every year.

    Now we get to see him with a team BUILT for him. Tyson Chandler, Camby, KT, Kidd, Felton, Shump, JR Smith are all above average to great defensive players.

    Then with two offensive weapons in MELO and STAT he's given them orders to improve their conditoning and defensive effort this year. If Woodson is able to get MELO and STAT to play defense we are set up for a GREAT season. We have the right mix of players and coaching personnel to get the job done.

    I have every confidence in this coach for this team. If D'antoni was still the coach I'd be worried but with Woody at the helm I'm not.
    This is a v gd post. And again all I'm saying is that his record shows that of an average coach. Alot of the above I agree with.

    I'm also in agreement w you and others that have been saying he has the team here in NY that fits his style of coaching. He is a gd fit here and should do well given the personnel he has at his disposal. We'll see what he does with it.

    I still think MDA is a better coach however. He has the record and playoff appearances to back it up. But he prolly could have done more with the rosters Woodson had in Atlanta for the reasons you state.

  4. #49
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I see no reason why we shouldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals. If we get knocked out in the first round the season will be a failure.
    I would have to say Carmelo's and Amare's careers would be a failure as well. Id be very angry and disappointed if we get bounced in the 1st round. Just imagine if the Nets swept us or the Celtics, i would throw my TV out my window and drop kick my computer screen


  5. #50
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Bumpppppppppppppppppppp

  6. #51
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    Most undervalued Knicks:
    Camby
    Thomas
    Prigioni

    Most overvalued Knicks
    Felton
    Smith
    STAT

  7. #52
    Member bluechox2's Avatar
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    i am surprisingly high on this roster atm, watching this new found commitment on the team and players preaching defense
    and improved cohesion among players...

    i know most of you saying stat and melo or stat and ty cant do this or that together, but i think we finally turned that corner

    first 10 games will only tell

  8. #53
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Most undervalued Knicks:
    Camby
    Thomas
    Prigioni

    Most overvalued Knicks
    Felton
    Smith
    STAT
    Will be interesting to see what Thomas gives us this year. Based on what i've seen from him the last 2 seasons, he should be basically Jeffries with better rebounding and a jump shot. That said, he did seem shaky at times in the preseason, which isn't a good determinant.

    Hope Camby plays in 65+ games this regular season

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    rono: yes his record does speak for itself. Has that atlanta team been able to get deep into the playoffs with another coach? Were they even able to replicate his 53 win season? He built that team up as far as they could go with the talent he was given.

    Then he steps into the spotlight in MSG and gives us 18-6 with a win against the eventual Champs (which is as much as OKC was able to do) All while dealing with the Lin saga, injuries to Melo, STAT, Lin and Shump and having to clean up the mess D'antoni left him.

    He held players accountable, put us back in the playoff picture, gave the players direction for their offseason training, and will be the same tough nose, no-nonsense, defensive minded coach that Knicks fan's love.

    I've got to say i'm pretty confident in Woodson as a coach for this roster. I believe that certain teams and coaches fit better together.

    In the case of D'antoni his system was built for a run the floor kind of team. With Nash, Johnson, Matrix and Amare he had the kind of small ball, fast as hell team that he thrived with. When he came to NYK he was originally looking at a team that was rebuilding, in to what he thought would be PHX-east. But it turned into a half court team with the Melo trade and his system was not set up to use a 3/4 like Melo who thrives in half-court sets, making his system/coaching style mismatched for the roster.

    With Woodson you see a defensive minded coach with very offensive minded players in ATL. Joe Johnson (d'ant pupil) Al Horford, Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford etc are all more known for their offensive output then their defensive toughness. He was not matched up with the kind of players he prefers. (remember he was a defensive guru for the 2004 Pistons.) Yet he was able to build that team up from a 13 win club into a 53 win club with a marked winning % improvement every year.

    Now we get to see him with a team BUILT for him. Tyson Chandler, Camby, KT, Kidd, Felton, Shump, JR Smith are all above average to great defensive players.

    Then with two offensive weapons in MELO and STAT he's given them orders to improve their conditoning and defensive effort this year. If Woodson is able to get MELO and STAT to play defense we are set up for a GREAT season. We have the right mix of players and coaching personnel to get the job done.

    I have every confidence in this coach for this team. If D'antoni was still the coach I'd be worried but with Woody at the helm I'm not.
    Great post right here #repped

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Most undervalued Knicks:
    Camby
    Thomas
    Prigioni

    Most overvalued Knicks
    Felton
    Smith
    STAT
    I agree 100 percent with this

  10. #55
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    I don't want : White, Thompson, Sims, Shurna, C Smith and Bellfield...what happens if we cut all these guys. Are there any spots still available then

  11. #56
    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Most undervalued Knicks:
    Camby
    Thomas
    Prigioni

    Most overvalued Knicks
    Felton
    Smith
    STAT
    I 100% agree on the Undervalue segment. I want to disagree on the overvalued players though.... Hopefully this is our year. STAT NEEDS to back up his talk and i think he will. Just pray for health. Health is wealth.

  12. #57
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    Originally Posted by petescud
    I don't want : White, Thompson, Sims, Shurna, C Smith and Bellfield...what happens if we cut all these guys. Are there any spots still available then
    Assuming we still sign Rasheed Wallace, well still have 1 spot left which will probably go to Copeland if he keeps playing the way he is.

    Regarding White i believe we signed him to a guaranteed 1 year one mill contract


  13. #58
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    Originally Posted by petescud
    I don't want : White, Thompson, Sims, Shurna, C Smith and Bellfield...what happens if we cut all these guys. Are there any spots still available then
    You should count the players you do want. Easier. Math wise, since camp rosters are maxed at 20, 20 minus the 6 you don't want leaves us with 14 warm bodies, 15 is the opening day max, gives us one spot. Best option is to keep the spot open and watch the final cut down list.

  14. #59
    ★The Floor General★ Knicks4Life_1985's Avatar
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    Most people on this board understand what we are. We are a team built around Melo to compete for a title. Coach Woodson has said our lineups are not set in stone and he will play the best players available ( we will see ) at the end of games. I feel as if that was a direct statement to Stat and Felton which should make them want to play even harder only making us better.

    I find it hard for people to say we are " overvaluing " those guys. Stat is here to get his 18-22 points from the paint and free throw line , box guys out , make them work for paint points and Felton is here to get the ball to our guys in their sweet spots ( 7 dimes ) and play hard nosed D.

    My key to the season is our health With the veteran presence of Kidd , Thomas , Camby , Pablo and Wallace ( if he makes it ) I find it hard to believe us not making it out of the first round. None of these guys are going to be relied on to carry our team that is the main difference from past years.


    Melo will do his thing and each player that was brought in since the trade understands this. I also don't see this staff playing the same games that Coach Dantoni was with minutes. Its going to be about winning basketball this year and for the first time our entire team from the front office to the players are ALL IN.

  15. #60
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kidd Karma
    You should count the players you do want. Easier. Math wise, since camp rosters are maxed at 20, 20 minus the 6 you don't want leaves us with 14 warm bodies, 15 is the opening day max, gives us one spot. Best option is to keep the spot open and watch the final cut down list.
    Thanks...looking like Copeland imo at this point and White is guaranteed my son says

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