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Thread: How does the NYK back court measure up to Eastern rivals?

  1. #16
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Great job done by Crazy8's breaking down the rep system...I just figured out not too long ago that rep power = the number of points u give someone when u rep them.

    I have to admit i think the Nets, Celtics, and Heat all have better back courts but I think we have the best front court and that when we get shumpert back we'll have two wing players that can slow down any other back court player. And I also think that Felton and Kidd will do a solid job holdin it down at point guard. This teams well built now and well balanced, even if Kidd gets burned by Rondo or Dwill he still they still have to get by Chandler or Camby, possibly both. Stat could be a much better defender next year too, i wouldnt bet on it but Woodsons a good coach for him.

  2. #17
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    Default Knicks Backcourt

    I believe we have a very weak backcourt, particularly while Shumpert is out. Felton is simply not that good and has never been that good. His year with D'Antoni was his best year, but D'Antoni's system even made Duhon look good.

    Felton thinks he is much better than he is. When he was with us he averaged 14.833 shots a game with a field goal percentage of 41.2 and a three point percentage of .33. That is not impressive. Only Amare' took more shots, but his field goal percentage was 52. And it seemed that Felton always insisted on being the hero -- he inevitably took the last shot. He is at best a mediocre defender. Neither he, Kidd or Prigioni have a chance of keeping up with the likes of Westbrook, Wall, Irving, Lawson and Holiday.

    Kidd is almost 39 and his game as been in serious reverse mode for a couple of years. He is hardly the defender he once was and he could never shoot that well. He is, however, a veteran presence and since our stars are in the front court will likely get them the ball.

    Prigioni might help but he is 35 and does not seem to have much of an offensive game.

    Brewer is gold on defense. I have hopes for JR.

    We have nothing to brag about in the backcourt. Our front court is another matter. Hopefully Woodson will be able to space the floor so that Melo, Amare', Chandler and Camby avoid getting in each other's way.

    I look at the coming season with some trepidation, because, given our lack of cap space and realistic trade chips, this is the best team we will have for some time. Kidd, Camby and Thomas are all pushing 40.

  3. #18
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    I believe we have a very weak backcourt, particularly while Shumpert is out. Felton is simply not that good and has never been that good. His year with D'Antoni was his best year, but D'Antoni's system even made Duhon look good.

    Felton thinks he is much better than he is. When he was with us he averaged 14.833 shots a game with a field goal percentage of 41.2 and a three point percentage of .33. That is not impressive. Only Amare' took more shots, but his field goal percentage was 52. And it seemed that Felton always insisted on being the hero -- he inevitably took the last shot. He is at best a mediocre defender. Neither he, Kidd or Prigioni have a chance of keeping up with the likes of Westbrook, Wall, Irving, Lawson and Holiday.

    Kidd is almost 39 and his game as been in serious reverse mode for a couple of years. He is hardly the defender he once was and he could never shoot that well. He is, however, a veteran presence and since our stars are in the front court will likely get them the ball.

    Prigioni might help but he is 35 and does not seem to have much of an offensive game.

    Brewer is gold on defense. I have hopes for JR.
    It's not fair to compare Felton in Dantoni's system vs. what he would do for Woody.

    His shots per game were high because Dantoni insists on his PG's being chuckers...this is not Felton's game. He is a floor general type not a run and gun type PG.

    Consider his numbers his last year in Charlotte
    .459 overall and .385 from 3!

    These numbers were solid because he was not a primary option on the floor, plus the style of play suited his game.

    Now consider how Woody is gonna play this year...it will be a much slower Half Court game just like his mentor Larry Brown ran!

    Plus unlike when he first came here he goes from our second best player to our 3rd or 4th option, again this is better suited for him.

    Plus his minutes will be down...Dantoni did it to Duhon Felton and even Lin at times! They all were leaders in the League in minutes as starters for Dantoni! This will not be the case w Kidd on the bench, his minutes should be around 30 minutes per as opposssed to the 38 that he played last stint!

    Now how can you say he is an average defender? He's a Larry Brown All Time Favorite that should say it all about his prowless on D. His size hurts him so he can't lock down and he is not the quickess of players, yet the dude plays w/ heart on D and that is enough!

    He's definetly an Above Average-Solid NBA defender.

    About Kidd staying in front of those players you ran off...truth of the matter is who does stay in front of those guys!!!! Rose Westbrook Irving and Wall are all freakishly skilled PG's but they are not the norm in The NBA. I mean Shump is our best perimeter defender yet there is no expectation that he shutdown D Wade or Kobe every time out!

    With 29 PGs in this league we would face I have no problem matching 39year old Kidd up against 18 of them! That's more than the majority.

    Our Backcourt is not spectacular....but again we don't need it to be (see my earlier reply for explanation)....we need role players out of the backcourt and we got 2 of the best in Felton and Shump!!!

    Perfectly Average
    Last edited by New New York; Aug 18, 2012 at 22:41.

  4. #19
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    how much wood could a point guard chuck if a point guard could chuck wood, son? very nice response NNY, i'm surprised at Oldtimer's trepidation of Felton's game and the backcourt in general. everything remains to be seen at this point. i have no expectations, just high hopes.

  5. #20
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 21 Shump Street
    Wouldn't be so sure about that, I think Indy, like Philly overachieved last year based on their chemistry together. They added George Hill as their starting PG over Collison. This was a smart idea against Miami whose size and pesky defense ruled Collison out almost straight away. George Hill, like Augustin, is primarily a shooter. When i look at their back court they have size and a lot of shooters, but no one who really stands out as a high quality passer. I think the Pacers will have the same problem we had with offense stagnation with TD as our point, but to a lesser degree.

    The media loves to hype up Philly and Indiana because they are young and still forming and haven't bother to list this in between writing up a comprehensive list of reasons why the Knicks will fail.

    EDIT: Atlanta probably won't be much of a threat and may sneak into the 8th seed but they have the same problem. Solely shooting guards filling out their back court.

    Teague/Williams
    Stevenson/Jenkins

    Are all shoot first guards and only Teague has an average passing game.
    I see what you're saying there, and you're right. I should have elaborated, but I still see some question marks looming above the Knicks' back-court, mostly in regard to individual scoring, but also re individual defence (that's how you spell defense where I'm from). A lot of question marks hang over Indiana's back-court as you eluded to nicely.

    I don't see there being a list of comprehensive reasoning behind certain/likely failure for the Knicks' back-court, but there's certainly no list of definite pluses or definite and positive prognosis; hence the thread.

    I definitely don't have any reservations about this Knicks' back-court's potential to be very good. I'm somewhat concerned about the shooting. Felton, in particular, will have to have a good shooting season that far eclipses his 40% FG and 30% 3FG from that horrible season in Portland last year. Obviously, a reliable 3 point shot will have the spacing advantages this team can't afford to lose, as evidenced by last season. Kidd much the same, as his penetration game has inevitably dipped with age.

    Prigioni is a question mark, but is probably our most reliable back-court threat from the arc. Did you see him shoot in the Olympics? Crisp!

  6. #21
    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    I see what you're saying there, and you're right. I should have elaborated, but I still see some question marks looming above the Knicks' back-court, mostly in regard to individual scoring, but also re individual defence (that's how you spell defense where I'm from). A lot of question marks hang over Indiana's back-court as you eluded to nicely.

    I don't see there being a list of comprehensive reasoning behind certain/likely failure for the Knicks' back-court, but there's certainly no list of definite pluses or definite and positive prognosis; hence the thread.

    I definitely don't have any reservations about this Knicks' back-court's potential to be very good. I'm somewhat concerned about the shooting. Felton, in particular, will have to have a good shooting season that far eclipses his 40% FG and 30% 3FG from that horrible season in Portland last year. Obviously, a reliable 3 point shot will have the spacing advantages this team can't afford to lose, as evidenced by last season. Kidd much the same, as his penetration game has inevitably dipped with age.

    Prigioni is a question mark, but is probably our most reliable back-court threat from the arc. Did you see him shoot in the Olympics? Crisp!
    Great post! I'm from Gold Coast, Australia so we spell it defence as well, the autocorrect always changes it back to the US version so I just gave up changing it.

    I'm not all that worried about our shooting from our back court. I really do expect them to have WIDE open looks. Felton, Smith and even Brewer are truly capable of penetrating and drawing the defence in. Coupled with the fact what Melo and Stat will be doubled at times and this creates plenty of open looks. Im pretty confident that Felton will be a man on a mission this season and i'm confident that Kidd, Smith, Felton & Prigioni will be able to hit the 3 if open.

    I did catch Pablo play in the Olympics! He is a great 3 point shooter! He doesn't shoot all that much but is swishin when open. I think he will hold his own against opposition reserve guards on D and believe he will be able to penetrate against the non-elite PG's of the league.

  7. #22
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    Thumbs up The best offense comes from the defense in the backcourt

    Shump wont be Shump untill the 2013-14 season
    Rose wont be MVP Rose untill the 2013-14 season

    I have to agree with "OldTimer" on the Knicks backcourt situation ..
    we are workin with 3 PG and 2 SG in Kidd/Felton/Pablo .. Brewer/Smith

    The Eastern Conference has 4 teams to measure Knicks backcourt against ..
    the 5 teams mention below are dependent on their backcourt to have an above .500 record.

    1) Miami Heat has the best consistant elite backcourt in the NBA, and with
    the addition of a healthy Ray Allen we talking HOF backcourt.

    2) Brooklyn Nets put together the 2nd elite backcourt tandem in the East ..
    Deron & Johnson elite skills are improving their teammates performance.
    Deron & Marshal Brooks vs CJ Watson & Joe Johnson rotation.

    3) Indiana Pacers has a lethal backcourt rotation that can change the
    game momentum in their favor vs some of the league best oponents ..
    Collison as a starter or 6th man is lethal in a rotation with Paul George/George Hill/Lance/and Barbosa.

    4) Boston Celtics backcourt of Rondo/Terry may become the most anticipated backcourt to watch ..
    having a healthy Daniels/Lee/Pietrus and some decent rookie guards for
    their rotation puts Boston backcourt the team to beat.

    5) Chicago Bulls backcourt will be another big suprise with Kentucky NCAA
    Championship PG-Marquis Teague speed and passin-skills to bigmen ..
    having 2 combo-guards in Hinrich/Nate with shooters Bellinelli/Rip in the
    backcourt rotation will suprise fans & oponents.

  8. #23
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Wealth for toil!

    Originally Posted by 21 Shump Street
    Great post! I'm from Gold Coast, Australia so we spell it defence as well, the autocorrect always changes it back to the US version so I just gave up changing it.
    Ah, well there you go. I'm from Tazzie. Couldn't handle writing the unaccustomed way, so I flipped my PC back to original English.

    I'm not all that worried about our shooting from our back court. I really do expect them to have WIDE open looks. Felton, Smith and even Brewer are truly capable of penetrating and drawing the defence in. Coupled with the fact what Melo and Stat will be doubled at times and this creates plenty of open looks. Im pretty confident that Felton will be a man on a mission this season and i'm confident that Kidd, Smith, Felton & Prigioni will be able to hit the 3 if open.
    I tentatively agree. Bit of a perfect world scenario. Where will Felton, who IMO is the biggest piece of the supporting puzzle, find his niché anywhere other than on the perimeter, with any real sense of repetition or definition? It's all there in the mind, but how effective will it be and how long will it take to circumvent the inevitable adjustment period? We have a very tough opening month. Moreover, is he still capable? Not an unfair question, IMO.

    I did catch Pablo play in the Olympics! He is a great 3 point shooter! He doesn't shoot all that much but is swishin when open. I think he will hold his own against opposition reserve guards on D and believe he will be able to penetrate against the non-elite PG's of the league.
    ●Pablo could definitely catch some people at unawares this year, I think. Lead his Euro league in SPG last season, and played some good, Euro help D in the olympics. He will have to adjust.

    ●Brewer, to me, is a bit of a head scratcher until 20 odd games in.

    ●I doubt we'll see ANY adjustment to JR's game. Some playmaking/P&D are heavily lacking from JR. I like his D, however, but it's as sporadic as his O.

    ●Kidd, I think, will play basically the exact same role as in Dallas. Naturally, he'll have a new set of requirements in both units, with STAT - who's incomparable to anything in Dallas - and a far less dependable 2. He'll have Chandler setting picks for him, STAT on occasion. Tyson's definitely the better P&R setter.

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    I sought of agree with oldtimer too. But our backcourt will get theirs because most of the attention will be on the frontcourt. I see a bunch of dimes, and uncontested shots (due to double teams). If Woody installs D-fence....fastbreaks and steals will also end as highlights. Our guards are just in a good situation...and i think they recognize this and will capitalize on it. The nets guards will be looked to carry their team...different predicament offers different.results.

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