How does the NYK back court measure up to Eastern rivals?

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
KIDD

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FELTON

Raymond-Felton-Knicks-450x337.jpg


JR SMITH

IFWT-JR-SMITH-KNICKS.jpg


RONNIE B

brewer.jpg

_______________

Study up, KO.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
I think overall we have the most depth and talent just inconsistencies can affect how good we can be

Felton the on court leader can he run the team and slow down Rondo, Deron and Rose

Kidd the vet, can he mentor Felton and help him live up to his potential and what exactly does he have left in the tank

Smith the wildcard can he score with consistency and be a true 3rd scorer and keep up his defensive effort from last year

Brewer the stopper, he has to work on that jumper and hit it to be a key catalyst on our team if so we have found a gem

Shumpert the young gun, can he come back from ACL surgery and be the same explosive defensive nightmare he was and will that jumper continue to improve

Prigioni the question mark his game translates well to our team he's a creator but can he hold his own on D
 

TheScowl

Rookie
Hate to say it but Brooklyn has the best starting back court and has a strong case for best supporting.

D-Will/Watson
JJ/Brooks


I don't think there's any doubt that they're better than us in that department. DW is an elite PG. Felton is average. CJ is top reserve point, Kidd is 39. They have an all-star pure scorer at SG. We have role players.

Our strength is up front and we need to get max production from those guys, while our backcourt just has to play their roles.
 

bluechox2

Benchwarmer
we have a good defensive backcourt, so i dont see bk dropping ****load of points from there

miami's wade will probably get his 20-30points but it wont be in the flow of the game this time round.
 

NYk_Reloaded718

★KNICKS-TAPE★
Eventually


Felton / Kidd / Pablo

Shump / Jr / Brewer

Our back court is underrated defensively IMO, Felton, Shump, Brewer, Kidd, Jr these are all players who WANT to play defense and put the effort in defensively they have the potential to make it tough on our opponent to score the ball especially under woodson, he will have these guys working their butts off defensively.

Offensively we have an average back court IMO, but even though it's a average back court Felton/Jr/Shump are all capable of creating their own shots & Kidd/Brewer know their roles.

Regarding how we stack up against rivals

Brooklyn Nets- D-Will/Joe Johnson Best Backcourt in the NBA and our biggest threat from a back court standard, lets not forget they still have Brooks/Watson coming off the bench as well

Miami Heat Wade/Ray Allen- this will give us serious problems if the heat were to throw out a line up of
Wade
Allen
Battier
Bron
Bosh

Celtics Rondo/Lee/Terry/Bradley -- Underrated backcourt that could give us fits offensively and defensively, but i like our chances against them.

Bucks-- the mini me duo of Jennings/Ellis -- Not a sleeper back court both of these players can go off any given night, but we can handle them with the way our roster is set i cant say i'm NOT worried because the Bucks seem to always give us problems but i like our chances.


Pacers- they are in the same boat as us, their strong point is their front court of Granger/hibbert/west... i'd say the Pacers/Knicks backcourts are arguably equal but the pacers have the younger back court.... i'd say we have an advantage defensively against their back court, i'll give them the slight advantage offensively. Hill, Green, Augistin, George, stephenson

Sixers--Underrated backourt, they are young and will make mistakes but they have potential Holiday, Turner, Nick Young, Jason Richardson. They have some nice pieces but still have alot to learn, Richardson will bring them Veteran Leadership, we can handle them though not worried.

Bulls - Crap Back court until Rose is back on the radar ( Rose is missing a large chunk of the season so i don't see the bulls much of a threat until further notice) + they lost their whole "BENCH MOBB" through free agency that bench really helped the Bulls with the absence of D.Rose mark my words the bulls will struggle big time this season until rose is back i'm sorry but "Hinrich, Nate, Bellenlli, Buttler" is not getting it done.

Raptors - Lowry, Fields, Derozan, John Lucas, Calderon, Ross, their backcourt is deep as hell. Are they a threat? No way Jose but i like the potential in their back court they have a chance to make the 8th seed, maybe even 7th.

Hawks- Crap Back court IMO
Magic- Crap Back court IMO
Detroit- Crap Back court IMO
Cavs- Crap Bacourt (MINUS IRVING) & I think Waiters will be a BUST
Wizards- Crap Back Court IMO (MINUS J.WALL)
BOBCATS- Crap Back Court IMO

feel free to post your positive/Negative feedbacks
 
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p0nder

Starter
^"You must spread some rep around before hookin Almost_Famous up again"

agreed and infact agreeing on the raptors chances at the playoffs this year, gonna have to move the wizards ff the 8th spot and put the raps there in my predictions.
 
I think I understand how the rep thing works now. Most times I forget about it, but I?ve been meaning to look into it for a while now.


Anyway, if we play Woody?s ball (nohomo) we should be the beasts of the east. The Knicks back court just has too many options to work with. BK is the only team I see competing in this area.
 

p0nder

Starter
^even after reading this i still don't get it. I've got 6 rep points so if i rep someone i am giving them 6 points and then when it hits 100 they get a new rep point? actually now that i type it out that seems simple... does it work for neg reps the same way?

I got neg repped once cause i said CA7 would leave with Melo if he was traded. I guess he took offense to that... but i didn't see him on the forums until melo was here so i had to figure he was a melo-fan first.

Back on topic: I'd say we have the 4th best in the east without Shump behind the Nets, Heat, Celtics, and Bucks. When he's back and if he's playing like he was this backcourt is a sleeper.

If he comes back with a better jumpshot (he's working on it while rehabing) we will rival the Nets in the backcourt... add that to the best frontcourt in the league and I think we have a great shot this year!
 
Crazy⑧s;246830 said:
Works like this:

New green thingy for every 100 points - poster that reps you has, for e.g., 10 rep power and reps you 10 points in accordance with that RP.

Plus one RP for every year since joining - July 2013 in your case.

Plus one RP per 1,000 posts.

Your initial point comes, I think, after 150 posts.

After receiving a total of 600 points, you are eligible for a night of passion with HRH, Elizabeth Windsor excluding anal. She is a good sport though.
hmmm, might take a lil while to digest this. I just gave some rep out to several players by pressing the thingy under their user names. I figured that was all to it but I see there is more to it then I originally thought. Thanks for the explanation, thou.
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
A good question....yet it's a bit loaded!

Here is why....A team's backcourt's value is going to depend on what that team needs it to be.

For instance...
New Jersey Brooklyn needs a scoring backcourt because Humphries and Wallace are hustle players who can't creat their own shots, so they need players who break down a defense to set up scoring for other players while serving as the primary offensive options.

Miami just needs anyone who plays in the Backcourt w D Wade to be able to hit a wide open shot and bring the ball up and play D...So Chalmers and Wade looks amazing. But Chalmers how many teams would Chalmers be a lock to start for?

Put anybody who can shoot in the backcourt w Rondo and they are the best Backcourt in a lot of ways as long as they still have Pierce and KG...yet Rondo and Ray Allen would not have been able to get Charlotte or Sac into the playoffs!
Could Kobe and Nash take a lottery team and turn them into a contender? Probably not! Even in their primes they could not do it.

Get my point?! Backcourts are oftern overatted...look we had the greatest backcourt of All Time in Frazier and Monore....but Willis was the anchor!

Talent wise honestly you could give the nod to a darkhorse in this discusssion....The Bucks w/ Jennings and Ellis...but at the sametime they are living proof a backcourt can't carry a team!


Now our precious Knicks!!!!

Take all I said about team needs....we do not need our backcourt to score a lot....we need them to be able to hit open shots and defend.

Now Shump is not at a point were his jumper is reliable...but he is a good shooter when given room (his shooting is bad when he is pulling up for 3's and creating jumpers off the dribble).....still room for improvement even with the wide open J's though, but I am totally comfortable w Shump as our SG of the future! David Lee went from having no J to one of the best jump shooting PF's in the league...Shump's J will improve!

Raymond needs to set the offense up....keep his TO's down and cause havoc penetrating and finding open men. He's fully capable of all of that
So per our needs I love...love our starting backcourt!

Bench wise Kidd is the perfect backup PG. Like Sam Cassel did for Boston at around the same age like Derek Fisher will give some Championship Contender this year, Kidd will bring leadership and Savvy and a respeted voice to the locker room.

JR is a perfect 6th man! He's like using your Ipad for Internet connection....awesome on the fly....horrible as a long term day to day solution! Plus his defense is better than I thought.
Brewer is amazing as a role player and will help with our defensive pressure in the backcourt
I think talent wise there are better backcourts for sure! But I like our backcourt per the team we have.

Give me a better Defensive Backcourt than a healthy Shump and Felton or Kidd and Brewer off the bench!
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
^even after reading this i still don't get it. I've got 6 rep points so if i rep someone i am giving them 6 points and then when it hits 100 they get a new rep point? actually now that i type it out that seems simple... does it work for neg reps the same way?

I got neg repped once cause i said CA7 would leave with Melo if he was traded. I guess he took offense to that... but i didn't see him on the forums until melo was here so i had to figure he was a melo-fan first.

Back on topic: I'd say we have the 4th best in the east without Shump behind the Nets, Heat, Celtics, and Bucks. When he's back and if he's playing like he was this backcourt is a sleeper.

If he comes back with a better jumpshot (he's working on it while rehabing) we will rival the Nets in the backcourt... add that to the best frontcourt in the league and I think we have a great shot this year!

hmmm, might take a lil while to digest this. I just gave some rep out to several players by pressing the thingy under their user names. I figured that was all to it but I see there is more to it then I originally thought. Thanks for the explanation, thou.

It's a bit tricky, isn't it?

I think my explanation was rather sh*t, to be honest.

Basically, there are 2 types of rep power.

The first type you'll receive directly from the site itself, including:

+ 1 RP for your first 150 posts.
+ 1 RP every 365 days as a member.
+ 1 RP for every 1,000 posts.

The other type is rep received from other posters.

100 total rep received from other posters equals one green square >
reputation_pos.gif
. One green square equals +1 RP.

After 500 rep points received, you get a light green square >
reputation_highpos.gif
From there you need 200 rep points received to get another light green square.

Negative rep works in the same way, but being negative it subtracts from your RP total. The opposite effect: + VS -.

Using myself as an example.

150 posts - +1 RP.
Joined in September 2008 +3 RP - will be +1 more as of September this year.
5000 posts + 5 RP.
626 Rep received from other posters + 6 RP


1 + 3 + 5 + 6 = 15 RP total as you can see under my avatar.

WHEW! All that over rep points. :lol:
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Eventually


Felton / Kidd / Pablo

Shump / Jr / Brewer

Our back court is underrated defensively IMO, Felton, Shump, Brewer, Kidd, Jr these are all players who WANT to play defense and put the effort in defensively they have the potential to make it tough on our opponent to score the ball especially under woodson, he will have these guys working their butts off defensively.

Offensively we have an average back court IMO, but even though it's a average back court Felton/Jr/Shump are all capable of creating their own shots & Kidd/Brewer know their roles.

Regarding how we stack up against rivals

Brooklyn Nets- D-Will/Joe Johnson Best Backcourt in the NBA and our biggest threat from a back court standard, lets not forget they still have Brooks/Watson coming off the bench as well

Miami Heat Wade/Ray Allen- this will give us serious problems if the heat were to throw out a line up of
Wade
Allen
Battier
Bron
Bosh

Celtics Rondo/Lee/Terry/Bradley -- Underrated backcourt that could give us fits offensively and defensively, but i like our chances against them.

Bucks-- the mini me duo of Jennings/Ellis -- Not a sleeper back court both of these players can go off any given night, but we can handle them with the way our roster is set i cant say i'm NOT worried because the Bucks seem to always give us problems but i like our chances.


Pacers- they are in the same boat as us, their strong point is their front court of Granger/hibbert/west... i'd say the Pacers/Knicks backcourts are arguably equal but the pacers have the younger back court.... i'd say we have an advantage defensively against their back court, i'll give them the slight advantage offensively. Hill, Green, Augistin, George, stephenson

Sixers--Underrated backourt, they are young and will make mistakes but they have potential Holiday, Turner, Nick Young, Jason Richardson. They have some nice pieces but still have alot to learn, Richardson will bring them Veteran Leadership, we can handle them though not worried.

Bulls - Crap Back court until Rose is back on the radar ( Rose is missing a large chunk of the season so i don't see the bulls much of a threat until further notice) + they lost their whole "BENCH MOBB" through free agency that bench really helped the Bulls with the absence of D.Rose mark my words the bulls will struggle big time this season until rose is back i'm sorry but "Hinrich, Nate, Bellenlli, Buttler" is not getting it done.

Raptors - Lowry, Fields, Derozan, John Lucas, Calderon, Ross, their backcourt is deep as hell. Are they a threat? No way Jose but i like the potential in their back court they have a chance to make the 8th seed, maybe even 7th.

Hawks- Crap Back court IMO
Magic- Crap Back court IMO
Detroit- Crap Back court IMO
Cavs- Crap Bacourt (MINUS IRVING) & I think Waiters will be a BUST
Wizards- Crap Back Court IMO (MINUS J.WALL)
BOBCATS- Crap Back Court IMO

feel free to post your positive/Negative feedbacks

Gotta agree with this.

I'm really looking forward to seeing our back-court VS the 76ers and the Bucks. That'll be telling, for sure. Until Shump returns, I think Indiana have ot over us in their back-court.

Nice post, NYK reloaded!
 

21 Shump Street

Benchwarmer
Crazy⑧s;246851 said:
Gotta agree with this.

I'm really looking forward to seeing our back-court VS the 76ers and the Bucks. That'll be telling, for sure. Until Shump returns, I think Indiana have ot over us in their back-court.

Nice post, NYK reloaded!

Wouldn't be so sure about that, I think Indy, like Philly overachieved last year based on their chemistry together. They added George Hill as their starting PG over Collison. This was a smart idea against Miami whose size and pesky defense ruled Collison out almost straight away. George Hill, like Augustin, is primarily a shooter. When i look at their back court they have size and a lot of shooters, but no one who really stands out as a high quality passer. I think the Pacers will have the same problem we had with offense stagnation with TD as our point, but to a lesser degree.

The media loves to hype up Philly and Indiana because they are young and still forming and haven't bother to list this in between writing up a comprehensive list of reasons why the Knicks will fail.

EDIT: Atlanta probably won't be much of a threat and may sneak into the 8th seed but they have the same problem. Solely shooting guards filling out their back court.

Teague/Williams
Stevenson/Jenkins

Are all shoot first guards and only Teague has an average passing game.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Great job done by Crazy8's breaking down the rep system...I just figured out not too long ago that rep power = the number of points u give someone when u rep them.

I have to admit i think the Nets, Celtics, and Heat all have better back courts but I think we have the best front court and that when we get shumpert back we'll have two wing players that can slow down any other back court player. And I also think that Felton and Kidd will do a solid job holdin it down at point guard. This teams well built now and well balanced, even if Kidd gets burned by Rondo or Dwill he still they still have to get by Chandler or Camby, possibly both. Stat could be a much better defender next year too, i wouldnt bet on it but Woodsons a good coach for him.
 

Oldtimer

Rotation player
Knicks Backcourt

I believe we have a very weak backcourt, particularly while Shumpert is out. Felton is simply not that good and has never been that good. His year with D'Antoni was his best year, but D'Antoni's system even made Duhon look good.

Felton thinks he is much better than he is. When he was with us he averaged 14.833 shots a game with a field goal percentage of 41.2 and a three point percentage of .33. That is not impressive. Only Amare' took more shots, but his field goal percentage was 52. And it seemed that Felton always insisted on being the hero -- he inevitably took the last shot. He is at best a mediocre defender. Neither he, Kidd or Prigioni have a chance of keeping up with the likes of Westbrook, Wall, Irving, Lawson and Holiday.

Kidd is almost 39 and his game as been in serious reverse mode for a couple of years. He is hardly the defender he once was and he could never shoot that well. He is, however, a veteran presence and since our stars are in the front court will likely get them the ball.

Prigioni might help but he is 35 and does not seem to have much of an offensive game.

Brewer is gold on defense. I have hopes for JR.

We have nothing to brag about in the backcourt. Our front court is another matter. Hopefully Woodson will be able to space the floor so that Melo, Amare', Chandler and Camby avoid getting in each other's way.

I look at the coming season with some trepidation, because, given our lack of cap space and realistic trade chips, this is the best team we will have for some time. Kidd, Camby and Thomas are all pushing 40.
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
I believe we have a very weak backcourt, particularly while Shumpert is out. Felton is simply not that good and has never been that good. His year with D'Antoni was his best year, but D'Antoni's system even made Duhon look good.

Felton thinks he is much better than he is. When he was with us he averaged 14.833 shots a game with a field goal percentage of 41.2 and a three point percentage of .33. That is not impressive. Only Amare' took more shots, but his field goal percentage was 52. And it seemed that Felton always insisted on being the hero -- he inevitably took the last shot. He is at best a mediocre defender. Neither he, Kidd or Prigioni have a chance of keeping up with the likes of Westbrook, Wall, Irving, Lawson and Holiday.

Kidd is almost 39 and his game as been in serious reverse mode for a couple of years. He is hardly the defender he once was and he could never shoot that well. He is, however, a veteran presence and since our stars are in the front court will likely get them the ball.

Prigioni might help but he is 35 and does not seem to have much of an offensive game.

Brewer is gold on defense. I have hopes for JR.

It's not fair to compare Felton in Dantoni's system vs. what he would do for Woody.

His shots per game were high because Dantoni insists on his PG's being chuckers...this is not Felton's game. He is a floor general type not a run and gun type PG.

Consider his numbers his last year in Charlotte
.459 overall and .385 from 3!

These numbers were solid because he was not a primary option on the floor, plus the style of play suited his game.

Now consider how Woody is gonna play this year...it will be a much slower Half Court game just like his mentor Larry Brown ran!

Plus unlike when he first came here he goes from our second best player to our 3rd or 4th option, again this is better suited for him.

Plus his minutes will be down...Dantoni did it to Duhon Felton and even Lin at times! They all were leaders in the League in minutes as starters for Dantoni! This will not be the case w Kidd on the bench, his minutes should be around 30 minutes per as opposssed to the 38 that he played last stint!

Now how can you say he is an average defender? He's a Larry Brown All Time Favorite that should say it all about his prowless on D. His size hurts him so he can't lock down and he is not the quickess of players, yet the dude plays w/ heart on D and that is enough!

He's definetly an Above Average-Solid NBA defender.

About Kidd staying in front of those players you ran off...truth of the matter is who does stay in front of those guys!!!! Rose Westbrook Irving and Wall are all freakishly skilled PG's but they are not the norm in The NBA. I mean Shump is our best perimeter defender yet there is no expectation that he shutdown D Wade or Kobe every time out!

With 29 PGs in this league we would face I have no problem matching 39year old Kidd up against 18 of them! That's more than the majority.

Our Backcourt is not spectacular....but again we don't need it to be (see my earlier reply for explanation)....we need role players out of the backcourt and we got 2 of the best in Felton and Shump!!!

Perfectly Average:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

CoolClyde

Moderator
how much wood could a point guard chuck if a point guard could chuck wood, son? very nice response NNY, i'm surprised at Oldtimer's trepidation of Felton's game and the backcourt in general. everything remains to be seen at this point. i have no expectations, just high hopes.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Wouldn't be so sure about that, I think Indy, like Philly overachieved last year based on their chemistry together. They added George Hill as their starting PG over Collison. This was a smart idea against Miami whose size and pesky defense ruled Collison out almost straight away. George Hill, like Augustin, is primarily a shooter. When i look at their back court they have size and a lot of shooters, but no one who really stands out as a high quality passer. I think the Pacers will have the same problem we had with offense stagnation with TD as our point, but to a lesser degree.

The media loves to hype up Philly and Indiana because they are young and still forming and haven't bother to list this in between writing up a comprehensive list of reasons why the Knicks will fail.

EDIT: Atlanta probably won't be much of a threat and may sneak into the 8th seed but they have the same problem. Solely shooting guards filling out their back court.

Teague/Williams
Stevenson/Jenkins

Are all shoot first guards and only Teague has an average passing game.

I see what you're saying there, and you're right. I should have elaborated, but I still see some question marks looming above the Knicks' back-court, mostly in regard to individual scoring, but also re individual defence (that's how you spell defense where I'm from). A lot of question marks hang over Indiana's back-court as you eluded to nicely.

I don't see there being a list of comprehensive reasoning behind certain/likely failure for the Knicks' back-court, but there's certainly no list of definite pluses or definite and positive prognosis; hence the thread.

I definitely don't have any reservations about this Knicks' back-court's potential to be very good. I'm somewhat concerned about the shooting. Felton, in particular, will have to have a good shooting season that far eclipses his 40% FG and 30% 3FG from that horrible season in Portland last year. Obviously, a reliable 3 point shot will have the spacing advantages this team can't afford to lose, as evidenced by last season. Kidd much the same, as his penetration game has inevitably dipped with age.

Prigioni is a question mark, but is probably our most reliable back-court threat from the arc. Did you see him shoot in the Olympics? Crisp!
 
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