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Thread: Are we undervaluing our roster this season, simply because its the New York Knicks?

  1. #1
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    Default Are we undervaluing our roster this season, simply because its the New York Knicks?

    Similar to a girl who cheated on you a bunch of times, lied to you, talked behind your back, let you down whenever you wanted to trust her again, the knicks have time and time again disappointed us, great coach in larry brown, Zeke takes over, Smart savvy front office and coaching connection between checkets grunfield vangundy and riley, dolan dismantles it all and trades away ewing for chump change, From marburys to 20 dollar starburys the knicks have folded like a cheap suit on so many occassions, as a knicks fan I feel it is etched into the very fabric of my brain to accept failure and no other option


    however,


    For the first time in a forever time, I honestly cant come up with a legitimate excuse to truly hate on this roster

    I want to say they are too old, but then again so are the celtics, and so are the entire miami heat bench, as well as the main pieces to the spurs, and the lakers as well, so is age just a number ?

    If some one said jason kidd ? the first thought that jumps into my brain isnt old, but experienced, leadership, savvy, (beat his wife), excellent floor general, knock down jumper, champion, gold medalist, ( drunk driving).

    if some one said marcus camby ? Shot blocking, rebounding, veteran, leadership, hard nosed, true knick at heart, locker room presence

    if some one said carmelo anthony, focused, comfortable, gold medalist, scorer, maturing, proud to be a knick

    if some one said amare stoudemire, beaten but not broken, away but not lost, struggling but strong, disregarded but vengeful

    raymond felton disregarded but vengeful

    tyson chandler, gold medalist, defensive player of the year, leadership, locker room present, intensity, great team mate

    Ronnie brewer well coached , jerry sloan, tom tibs, winning teams his entire career, jazz, bulls, defensive minded, hustler, finisher, wanted to be a knick

    novack, great team mate, knock down shooter, focused to prove hes worth it


    as I move on down the list, and I am hoping some of you can add more superlatives to described this years roster I realize there is something different about this group, something experienced, something leadership, something defensive, something teammates, something winning


    I think its time to feel a little bit comfortable, let go of the baggage that has prevented us from feeling secure that this beautiful woman is sitting on our laps, and move towards something different

    something new

    something refreshing

    something called

    winning.


    Your thoughts. ....
    Last edited by Crazy⑧s; Oct 17, 2012 at 11:04.

  2. #2
    ★KNICKS-TAPE★ NYk_Reloaded718's Avatar
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    Second round in playoffs or BUST.

  3. #3
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    You hit the nail on the head. We will always temper our expectations as Knicks' fans because we have been burned so many times, especially over the last decade, but even before that. That said, our day will come.

  4. #4
    Newbie TheScowl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by htr10
    You hit the nail on the head. We will always temper our expectations as Knicks' fans because we have been burned so many times, especially over the last decade, but even before that. That said, our day will come.

    Good thread and I agree with your point as well, but also I think deep down we don't just want a solid, 4th seed, 2nd round exit type team. The team, with the experience and not much youth, is built to win now, which makes people more sceptical. Can they really win now?

    While there is talent, the problem for the fan is that there are loads of question marks, few sure things. I,.e. compared to other teams, it's harder to predict performance. The only guy who I fee we know what we'll get is Tyson. Everybody else has questions:

    Carmelo: Can he be the legit franchise player who leads his team deep into the playoffs?

    Stat: Can he return to form? Can these two make each better (rather than limit each other)?

    Felton: Can he match the production from two years ago (in a different system)?

    Shump: Will he be 100%? Can he be a more consistent scorer?

    JR: Can he be a more consistent and efficient player on offense?

    Kidd and Camby: How much do they have left?

    Novak: His shooting is unquestioned, but Miami figured him out in the playoffs.

    If Woodson can get the best out of all these guys, we have a contender. But we need to see it happen.

  5. #5
    Member Hayato's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheScowl
    Good thread and I agree with your point as well, but also I think deep down we don't just want a solid, 4th seed, 2nd round exit type team. The team, with the experience and not much youth, is built to win now, which makes people more sceptical. Can they really win now?

    While there is talent, the problem for the fan is that there are loads of question marks, few sure things. I,.e. compared to other teams, it's harder to predict performance. The only guy who I fee we know what we'll get is Tyson. Everybody else has questions:

    Carmelo: Can he be the legit franchise player who leads his team deep into the playoffs?

    Stat: Can he return to form? Can these two make each better (rather than limit each other)?

    Felton: Can he match the production from two years ago (in a different system)?

    Shump: Will he be 100%? Can he be a more consistent scorer?

    JR: Can he be a more consistent and efficient player on offense?

    Kidd and Camby: How much do they have left?

    Novak: His shooting is unquestioned, but Miami figured him out in the playoffs.

    If Woodson can get the best out of all these guys, we have a contender. But we need to see it happen.
    for one; felton WONT match is 2010 stats. that was in a PG heavy system.. i love this team though. but i have strong doubts that we'll get by miami. then if we somehow did, we'd have to face the lakers or thunder

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    Member 21 Shump Street's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hayato
    for one; felton WONT match is 2010 stats. that was in a PG heavy system.. i love this team though. but i have strong doubts that we'll get by miami. then if we somehow did, we'd have to face the lakers or thunder
    ECF appearance would be a great achievement for this team though.

  7. #7
    Member Hayato's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 21 Shump Street
    ECF appearance would be a great achievement for this team though.
    would it? theres no competition in the east except for the heat (who we'll probably see in the ECF unless boston makes a run) and celtics. pacers and sixers are ehhh and the bulls wont be ready to make a run with rose coming back so late plus they have no bench except gibson and robinson. nets? ehh

  8. #8
    Member JaYnYcE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 21 Shump Street
    ECF appearance would be a great achievement for this team though.
    Winning the division would be a great achievement IMO. First, when's the last time we did that? 1994? Second, whoever comes out on top in this division should be favored to win the 2nd overall spot in the East.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    This team can straight whoop any other, any time, any where, any day, under any and all circumstances.

    There may be Knick fans that undervalue or underestimate this roster, but not one opposing team's scout underestimates or undervalues what the Knicks are capable of.

    Our toughest opponent will prove to be ourselves.

  10. #10
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    I'm gonna have to agree with Crazy and the OPer on this..

    Simply put, we are a dangerous team. If we play like a cohesive unit on both ends of the floor we can do big things.


    I'll play DFDH

    I'll do the starters and Kidd and Camby...


    Felton.. solid player, a leader, true PG, he's become a Knick at heart.

    Kidd.. extremely seasoned, champion, will keep things in check coming off the bench.

    Amare.. capable of having a great year, had the best season of his career with Felton, will be focused on silencing his critics and playing nice with Melo

    Melo.. poised for an awesome year, seems to have kindled a new kind of hunger, seems unguardable, could get some MVP votes

    Chandler.. our under the radar leader of the team, so balanced, hard-working.., the backbone, champion

    Camby.. will bolster the defense even when Chandler is on the bench, makes our team tougher, it'll be so awesome to see him on the court in a NY uni again


    I haven't been amped re the Knicks since the Lin debacle. Thanks for this v nice thread.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Aug 10, 2012 at 12:58.

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    This team can straight whoop any other, any time, any where, any day, under any and all circumstances.

    There may be Knick fans that undervalue or underestimate this roster, but not one opposing team's scout underestimates or undervalues what the Knicks are capable of.

    Our toughest opponent will prove to be ourselves.
    I have to agree with this....

  12. #12
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    I think we are a dangerous team -- but as dangerous to ourselves, as we are the rest of the league.

    When the overall context of the league, and winning in this league, demands a level of excellence set by a few elite -- which we do not match, simply put -- dealing with combustible parts that need multiple things to break right just to enjoy a successful season with a puncher's chance isn't something I'm terribly happy with as a Knicks fan.

    Though I do wish I was more hopeful, personally.

    This Knicks team was beyond a train wreck before Lin came along. We have now replaced Lin with a *monumental* question mark -- a player who just submitted one of the most loathsome seasons in a franchise's history, and couldn't keep his **** together even in a contract year.

    It doesn't matter how you slice it, Felton is a *HUGE* question mark. Yes, he ha the potential to be really good for us....but really, 90% of ****ty NBA'ers have the *potential* to be really good for people.

    Amare and Melo have never co-existed properly, and Melo has still never "gotten it" over the course of a full season. In fact, this last season was a clinic in Melo *NOT* getting it.

    Can we be hopeful he does, can we look to the Olympics as a galvanizing turning point? Of course, but if we are making real talk threads to really compare out lot in the NBA....I have to say, we look an Isiah Thomas Frankenstein, just with a lot more gloss, and living in the aftermath of the Walsh (and MDA) Era, that allowed us to bring in and draft and cultivate the talent which we flipped for what we currently have.....which, no doubt, is collectively very, very valuable.

    I feel, however, we are the pinnacle of the whole being worth *less* than the sum of parts.

    Shumpert's major injury.

    We had a transcendant Novak coming off a year superior to any he has ever had.

    Major question mark at PG, major question mark's at the 2 slot.

    Melo is Melo, until proved otherwise.

    And Amare is coming off a down year, following another injury riddled season.

    And for all the talk about Bynum being very injury prone, TyChan hasn't had a sterling record of injury prevention himself.

    I see us as an extremely combustible team, with a chance for true disaster from both:

    player performance
    team chemistry
    injury risk

    perspectives.

    Felton, Smith, Melo, Amare, Novak....Woodson.

    Virtually every player on our roster, outside of TyChan, I see as needing to prove that they can be what we need them to be.

    Also, let's not discount how much TyChan thrived offensively with Lin running the offense.

    I don't like being negative, but when many threads or posts like this pop up, I feel compelled to share my honest impression. Not to beat a dead horse with it, or to hate on a thread like this -- it's a good thread with good posts -- but I need to be honest with how I see.

    Especially in the context of the NBA. And what it takes to be a true contender.

    Simply put, you just can't have these types of question marks, or incomplete players, and lacking team chemistry.

    What you need is an OKC model (luck by draft), a MIA model (luck by 1x geneneration players taking paycuts), or a mode which I feel we could have gone down:

    Finding players with all-star potential and perfect-fit potential, who are locked up at a salary well below what they would be worth, to go alongside two worthy max-contract stars, and a potent offensive or defensive system that is unique.

  13. #13
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Great post Zeke!

    Very objective, though I think you're being a little hard on this roster.

    Melo and Amare had a season to struggle and get to know one another. I think there's a good chance those hard times will pay dividends re chemistry.

    Felton while a question mark has anwered some of hi scritics by getting himself in what looks to be at worst decent shape. He should round (no pun intended) in to form by season's start. He is also partly responsible for one of Amare's best years. It'll be good for Amare to have him back.

    And while I think Kidd and Camby are old/limited in what they can do, they both have enough left in the tank to really help us.

    Idk.. we've got size, good guard play, two prolific scorers and (barring Amare and Novak) solid defenders at multiple positions.

    My biggest question mark, and anyone can feel free to challenge me on this, is Woodson.

    He too me is just not a v good coach.

    MDA while flawed fundamentally was plain and simple a flat out better coach IMO.

    Woodson's unimaginative offense and questionable decision making leave me somewhat weary of his performance going into this season.

    He has a lot to prove. He's really done nothing in the league since he's been coaching.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Aug 10, 2012 at 13:00.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    I see no reason why we shouldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals. If we get knocked out in the first round the season will be a failure.

  15. #15
    ★Melo Mafia★ NY17KNICKS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I see no reason why we shouldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals. If we get knocked out in the first round the season will be a failure.
    hell yeah,if we dont make it out of the first...



    sh!t will go down.

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