View Poll Results: Who is the better P&R option?

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  • Chandler

    6 54.55%
  • Stoudemire

    5 45.45%
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Thread: Pickin' n' Rollin' - STAT & Felton VS Chandler & Felton + Amar'e's resurgence.

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  1. #1
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Question Mark Pickin' n' Rollin' - STAT & Felton VS Chandler & Felton + Amar'e's resurgence.

    Will Felton bring back Stoudemire to the P&R elite?


    ○ I said when the trade went down for Felton, that as much as it's an encouraging thought to have him back and in sync with STAT in the P&R, that Tyson is by far the better pick setter out of both he and Amar'e. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Tyson's picks are league class, and that if there's anyone that outclasses him as a pick setter, they'd be one of very few.

    In yesterday's preseason game VS Boston (fags), the commentator, whose name I don't recall, eluded to the fact that Chandler was an excellent finisher on the P&R, more so probably than Dwight Howard, which led me to rekindle this discussion.

    Another thing to remember, is that Chandler and Felton also played, and started, together in Charlotte. So there is pre-formed chemistry there already, and since that time Chandler's game has elevated dramatically after having played with CP3, and Jason Kidd in Dallas.

    Adding Jason Kidd to the fray.


    ○ As I just mentioned, part of the reason Chandler's game elevated offensively can be related to the C, PG role he has shared with 2 of the league's all time, future hall of fame point guards CP3 and Captain Kidd. Bringing Kidd to New York is only far more likely to see Chandler's offensive numbers go up, and given that thought, is it too optimistic to think that he'll even be worth 15-16 PPG this season? Considering his high percentage shots and impeccable timing on the P&R, to think he'll receive the ball close to the basket 6 times a game isn't overstepping the mark in the slightest.

    Where does Amar'e's P&R game fit in?


    ○ Mid range dominance. Pure and simple. It is the only advantage STAT has over Chandler in any sense of the game itself; he can shoot.

    In his time as the offence's go to scorer pre Melo, Amar'e Stoudemire's game was lethal because of his triple threat ability, as pointed out perfectly by Elton Brand and Al Horford in the above video.

    As I say, it is his only advantage as a front court scoring option on this team, and if he's to return to form, his shot will have to be what propels his offence.

    But therein lies the issue. Last season STAT was the league's worst shooter from what was his former sweet spot. And, as you'll see, he's not the only current Knick on the chart below.


    ^
    So how's that! STAT and Ray are the league's worst shooters on opposite sides of the court! That is not good! If they're to run a successful 2 man game as the majority of the site apparently assumes they will, then this is a serious concern. We can say, "Just let them play on the other side of the court", but that would be ignoring the 3 other players out there, and whether or not that will detract from continuity. The other concern, as with a lot of D'Antoni's old spaced offence, is that it's prone to predictability, and teams the likes of Miami, that are an elite defensive squad, chew up offences that are easily read. It's a cynic's view, but it's not implausible cynicism.

    There's food for thought here, KO. And while I could rattle on about it at great length, especially considering that I've not mentioned Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks' best player who destroyed the league at the 4 last year, and the fact that Chandler's presence affected Amar'e's usefulness last year, there is much to add to the burning questions regarding the reemergence of Amar'e Stoudemire, and the players in O&B that'll help bring him back from the doldrums of, well, sh*ttyness.

    Sound off.


  2. #2
    Member Fat Elvis's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy⑧s
    Will Felton bring back Stoudemire to the P&R elite?


    ○ I said when the trade went down for Felton, that as much as it's an encouraging thought to have him back and in sync with STAT in the P&R, that Tyson is by far the better pick setter out of both he and Amar'e. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Tyson's picks are league class, and that if there's anyone that outclasses him as a pick setter, they'd be one of very few.

    In yesterday's preseason game VS Boston (fags), the commentator, whose name I don't recall, eluded to the fact that Chandler was an excellent finisher on the P&R, more so probably than Dwight Howard, which led me to rekindle this discussion.

    Another thing to remember, is that Chandler and Felton also played, and started, together in Charlotte. So there is pre-formed chemistry there already, and since that time Chandler's game has elevated dramatically after having played with CP3, and Jason Kidd in Dallas.

    Adding Jason Kidd to the fray.


    ○ As I just mentioned, part of the reason Chandler's game elevated offensively can be related to the C, PG role he has shared with 2 of the league's all time, future hall of fame point guards CP3 and Captain Kidd. Bringing Kidd to New York is only far more likely to see Chandler's offensive numbers go up, and given that thought, is it too optimistic to think that he'll even be worth 15-16 PPG this season? Considering his high percentage shots and impeccable timing on the P&R, to think he'll receive the ball close to the basket 6 times a game isn't overstepping the mark in the slightest.

    Where does Amar'e's P&R game fit in?


    ○ Mid range dominance. Pure and simple. It is the only advantage STAT has over Chandler in any sense of the game itself; he can shoot.

    In his time as the offence's go to scorer pre Melo, Amar'e Stoudemire's game was lethal because of his triple threat ability, as pointed out perfectly by Elton Brand and Al Horford in the above video.

    As I say, it is his only advantage as a front court scoring option on this team, and if he's to return to form, his shot will have to be what propels his offence.

    But therein lies the issue. Last season STAT was the league's worst shooter from what was his former sweet spot. And, as you'll see, he's not the only current Knick on the chart below.


    ^
    So how's that! STAT and Ray are the league's worst shooters on opposite sides of the court! That is not good! If they're to run a successful 2 man game as the majority of the site apparently assumes they will, then this is a serious concern. We can say, "Just let them play on the other side of the court", but that would be ignoring the 3 other players out there, and whether or not that will detract from continuity. The other concern, as with a lot of D'Antoni's old spaced offence, is that it's prone to predictability, and teams the likes of Miami, that are an elite defensive squad, chew up offences that are easily read. It's a cynic's view, but it's not implausible cynicism.

    There's food for thought here, KO. And while I could rattle on about it at great length, especially considering that I've not mentioned Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks' best player who destroyed the league at the 4 last year, and the fact that Chandler's presence affected Amar'e's usefulness last year, there is much to add to the burning questions regarding the reemergence of Amar'e Stoudemire, and the players in O&B that'll help bring him back from the doldrums of, well, sh*ttyness.

    Sound off.

    great analysis. People always talk about the problems Melo and Amare will have playing together, but I think Tyson and Amare are more redundant, exactly because they both are mostly P&R players, more comfortable coming up to the free throw line and setting picks. I think Felton and Kidd will help them both out in this regard, but I'm hoping Amare's time with Olajuwon might improve his post game some. Right now, I actually think 'Melo might be our best post player. But if Amare can stay healthy, I'm expecting a big year - not 2010-11 numbers, but somewhere in the range of 21 and 8. Tyson can definitely dunk an alley-oop or putback (which might not take much skill, but are valuable none theless), but he's pretty limited otherwise. Still, as you say he can set a great pick, and all we need him to do on offense is set picks and get the occasional offensive rebound and we'll be in great shape

  3. #3
    Member bluechox2's Avatar
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    Im kinda glad we brought back felton, and lets not forget, felton had one one his worst seasons last year being unmotivated and out of shape being the culprit. He was on a portland team that was going nowhere. THis year will be different with woody getting on players backs to perform well or he would lose his starting gig to kid or prigs.

    Amare also being oft-injured and unable to get his chemistry to click with melo and unable to find his spots during games, shooting out of rhythm trying to do something with the ball. He was lost in melo ball to the most part. And amare who heavily rely on pg play had the likes of Douglas,Bibby and Lin for the most part of the season and and a one legged davis to dish to him. Our point gaurds were mediocre at best and didnt have the skills to really bring out amares game. His already preexisting chemistry with felton should dramatically improve his play and find him on open jumpers and drives to the hoop. Not to mention, lin bombed it today vs the spurs (1-10/ 1 assist) our new guys should dramatically bring new cohesion to this group

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    In Celtics game and Wizards game we saw some nice passes from Felton to Tyson. Enough to give hope.

  5. #5
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    Default Felton

    I have been consistently highly critical of Felton. My principal problem with him was a conclusion that he overrated his offensive prowess. He is not a premier shooter, but with the Knicks he thought he was.

    I am beginning to conclude that I neglected and underrated his passing skills. He can be a first class facilitator and I think we now have three terrific point guards even though none of them are lights out shooters. We have the shooters elsewhere.

    I liked Lin and I think, despite his pre-season so far, that he will have exceptionally good numbers with Houston. But he needs the ball too much. I prefer our current point guards.

  6. #6
    Superstar orangeblobman's Avatar
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    Kidd is pretty much lights out from long range.

    With Knicks, Felton had streaks that season. He was really hot for a while when we were running through everyone, but closer to the All-Star break he fizzled.

    When he's good he can be really good. With Denver he banged 46% three pointers over 21 games, 1.3 made per game. So he can tickle twines, but maybe not to shoot 5 per game.

    Jason Kidd, he'll talk to Felton about improving his long range shooting, so that he can stay in the league when he cannot walk any more, like Jason Kidd.

    For the first two-and-a-half years in Dallas, Jason Kidd was banging over 40% from the long ranges.

    I don't know what happened now, the last two, but I hope he will drop buckets.

    I voted Amar'e in the poll, before I read the thread, and now I see I was probably wrong. Still, I can't shake the idea of Amar'e slam dunking off the pick and roll, and I think he'll have more success this year because him and Felton have done this before, it will be some healthy chemistry to build on.

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