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Thread: Some minor adjustments I'd look to make right now

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    Default Some minor adjustments I'd look to make right now

    Team is firing on all cylinders pretty much and it's been great to see...However, as deep as we are and we're pretty deep, I still think we can improve this team very quietly, possibly by looking at a couple of D-Leaguers.

    The two enhancements I'd look to make are at the PF and SG positions, even with Amar'e & Iman Shumpert due back soon:

    (1) Buy out/cut Kurt Thomas and sign 6'10" F JaJuan Johnson to a contract. I just don't see Kurt as any kind of a difference maker anymore. Sheed's been good and intense and deserves to stay and play a little when needed---dude clearly has a little something left to offer; and Camby simply makes too much money to move (one of the few mistakes Grunwald made was giving Camby the contract he did--even Marcus was surprised at what he got and said so publicly, inadvertently clowning Glen in the process)...Kurt's the guy I'd look to trim. He's only making $1.35M on a 1-yr deal---I don't see any reason why an amicable buyout couldn't be reached between KT and the Knicks at this stage..This man's best days are clearly behind him...JaJuan Johnson is one of the better DL bigs, possibly the best. 6'10" 225 or so with a lot of potential...I see a player just as good as Orlando's Andrew Nicholson to be honest...Remember this kid well at Purdue -- would do some stuff out there that reminded me of Kevin Durant from time to time...Prior experience with the Celtics. Signed by Houston months ago but as far as I can tell, he's no longer their property.

    (2) Cut James White and sign Chris Douglas-Roberts to a contract. Not saying White is complete trash, I just felt we could've done better right from jumpstreet...I mean we signed White to a fully guaranteed contract before we had any resolution with the JR Smith situation. Before the J Kidd signing as well if I remember correctly...Think about that for a sec...Mgmt clearly had bigger plans for this guy before they came to terms with JR... Scary---can you imagine if our 2G rotation was Ronnie Brewer and James White right now, what a disadvantage that would've put us at most nights? Wow...We can flat out do better in terms of a skilled wing reserve than Flight White and like Kurt Thomas, White's contract is negligible (even moreso) and should be easy to trim...CDR is currently one of the best, most productive players in the NBDL---dude is averaging over 22 a game..Kicked off his DL career with a 49 point pre-season game down there. Say what?!? That's right..49 points back in November..Crazy...This guy's always been a dynamite scorer wherever he's been and gotten playing time---NJ, Milwaukee, overseas, and now in the D-League...No question he's got NBA talent..The man is infinitely more skilled than James White, ain't no question about it. You could even make a case that he's just as good or could possibly be an even more productive option over JR Smith. Definitely a better talent than Ronnie Brewer too imo.

    ------------------------

    I say go get these two younger/better alternatives right now to solidify depth at 2 of our weaker positions...In an instant, it would make us a much younger ballclub and improve on an already solid talent level. It'd be like adding 2 1st round picks outta nowhere on the talent alone...Can't fully rely on Amar'e and Shump to supply answers and bump us up to elite status...In a perfect world those two absolutely could and hopefully will take us to the promise land but there ain't no guarantees in life man...What if it doesn't work out with one or both of those guys? What if one or both experience setbacks? Unfortuately, they're each huge question marks and that's the reality of the situation...No reason why we shouldn't be thinking about a backup enhancement plan at the PF & SG spots God forbid Amar'e and/or Shumpert don't regain top form. If we're really serious about going for it, then let's go for it! Forget next year or the year after -- do everything in your power to make improvements and put together the best 15-man roster you possibly can right now!! I say make the quick roster adjustments with KT & White (we don't owe either one of these guys a thing---the goal should be to assemble the best, deepest team possible) & go secure these two upgrades before someone else grabs them.
    Last edited by finestrg; Dec 21, 2012 at 01:58.

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    No, I wouldn't mess with the team at all. They have great chemistry and I wouldn't mess with that unless it's someone that would clearly make us better not 2 guys that aren't even in the league right now.

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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    Team is firing on all cylinders pretty much and it's been great to see...However, as deep as we are and we're pretty deep, I still think we can improve this team very quietly, possibly by looking at a couple of D-Leaguers.

    The two enhancements I'd look to make are at the PF and SG positions, even with Amar'e & Iman Shumpert due back soon:

    (1) Buy out/cut Kurt Thomas and sign 6'10" F JaJuan Johnson to a contract. I just don't see Kurt as any kind of a difference maker anymore. Sheed's been good and intense and deserves to stay and play a little when needed---dude clearly has a little something left to offer; and Camby simply makes too much money to move (one of the few mistakes Grunwald made was giving Camby the contract he did--even Marcus was surprised at what he got and said so publicly, inadvertently clowning Glen in the process)...Kurt's the guy I'd look to trim. He's only making $1.35M on a 1-yr deal---I don't see any reason why an amicable buyout couldn't be reached between KT and the Knicks at this stage..This man's best days are clearly behind him...JaJuan Johnson is one of the better DL bigs, possibly the best. 6'10" 225 or so with a lot of potential...I see a player just as good as Orlando's Andrew Nicholson to be honest...Remember this kid well at Purdue -- would do some stuff out there that reminded me of Kevin Durant from time to time...Prior experience with the Celtics. Signed by Houston months ago but as far as I can tell, he's no longer their property.

    (2) Cut James White and sign Chris Douglas-Roberts to a contract. Not saying White is complete trash, I just felt we could've done better right from jumpstreet...I mean we signed White to a fully guaranteed contract before we had any resolution with the JR Smith situation. Before the J Kidd signing as well if I remember correctly...Think about that for a sec...Mgmt clearly had bigger plans for this guy before they came to terms with JR... Scary---can you imagine if our 2G rotation was Ronnie Brewer and James White right now, what a disadvantage that would've put us at most nights? Wow...We can flat out do better in terms of a skilled wing reserve than Flight White and like Kurt Thomas, White's contract is negligible (even moreso) and should be easy to trim...CDR is currently one of the best, most productive players in the NBDL---dude is averaging over 22 a game..Kicked off his DL career with a 49 point pre-season game down there. Say what?!? That's right..49 points back in November..Crazy...This guy's always been a dynamite scorer wherever he's been and gotten playing time---NJ, Milwaukee, overseas, and now in the D-League...No question he's got NBA talent..The man is infinitely more skilled than James White, ain't no question about it. You could even make a case that he's just as good or could possibly be an even more productive option over JR Smith. Definitely a better talent than Ronnie Brewer too imo.

    ------------------------

    I say go get these two younger/better alternatives right now to solidify depth at 2 of our weaker positions...In an instant, it would make us a much younger ballclub and improve on an already solid talent level. It'd be like adding 2 1st round picks outta nowhere on the talent alone...Can't fully rely on Amar'e and Shump to supply answers and bump us up to elite status...In a perfect world those two absolutely could and hopefully will take us to the promise land but there ain't no guarantees in life man...What if it doesn't work out with one or both of those guys? What if one or both experience setbacks? Unfortuately, they're each huge question marks and that's the reality of the situation...No reason why we shouldn't be thinking about a backup enhancement plan at the PF & SG spots God forbid Amar'e and/or Shumpert don't regain top form. If we're really serious about going for it, then let's go for it! Forget next year or the year after -- do everything in your power to make improvements and put together the best 15-man roster you possibly can right now!! I say make the quick roster adjustments with KT & White (we don't owe either one of these guys a thing---the goal should be to assemble the best, deepest team possible) & go secure these two upgrades before someone else grabs them.
    Wow... You must not understand the make up of our team. D leaguers don't win championships vets do. Deep team means lack of playing time in which vets who've been there before understand they won't play all the time. D leaguers are trying to get guaranteed money therefore they need to play and will have chemistry disrupting quarrels if they don't. I would not mess with the make up of this team...

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

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    Default Huh?

    Originally Posted by knicksince 93
    Wow... You must not understand the make up of our team. D leaguers don't win championships vets do. Deep team means lack of playing time in which vets who've been there before understand they won't play all the time. D leaguers are trying to get guaranteed money therefore they need to play and will have chemistry disrupting quarrels if they don't. I would not mess with the make up of this team...

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    I understand this team's dynamics very well, thank you. I understand that Kurt Thomas and James 'Flight' White (esp. White) have never won anything and will have little or nothing at all to do with this team's future success. Think about what you're saying & who I'm saying should be replaced -- we're talking about Kurt Thomas and James White here. You're talking like each guy is some key piece to the puzzle. Come on now..

    Kurt Thomas was once a nice serviceable player -- now, he's past his prime. When our entire frontline's healthy, this guy's the 5th out of our 5 bigs on the depth chart and normally wouldn't see the light of day. He's only been pressed into duty recently because the frontline has taken on some injuries. Sheed, by comparison, has played ahead of KT when healthy because he clearly is the more talented player (always has been) and still has some gas left in his tank...As for White, he's a fringe player at best that we oddly reached for when there were better options out there at the 2/3 (still are in fact, one of which is CDR).

    JaJuan Johnson and Douglas-Roberts would be 2 nice enhancements in both the right spots (each has prior NBA experience too, let's not discount that aspect) and would give us 2 nice young players to hopefully move forward with. We have more than enough veteran presence to go around on this team that we can absorb the loss of Kurt Thomas and be no worse for the ware. I think we'd actually be BETTER with a nice prospect like JJ myself. Same with CDR for White --- even less of a debate there. White is nothing special...Also, I don't feel like D-Leaguers are looking for guaranteed money right off the bat and to make waves --- most of these guys agree to non-guaranteed 10-day contracts if and when a callup happens. And most get sent right back down, some never even getting in a game...These are humble, hard-working guys that know the score...Above all else, these guys are looking to make and stay in the show (for these two, it's more like get back to the show). Tell you what though, just to play along with what you said -- in order to placate, I'd cut KT and White and actually offer these guys guaranteed contracts through the end of the year. Wouldn't even be an issue after that -- they'd each have guaranteed contracts and security for the rest of the year. That's more than most any other DL callup gets. For these two talents, I'd be prepared to do that...Like I said earlier -- each guy is 1st round draft talent to me...The search for nice, cost-effective talent should never end, esp. for a capped out team that's in the midst of not having a 1st round pick every other year, a team that hasn't won anything since 1973. Good GMs find creative ways to trim the fat and continue to add talent even when the deck is stacked against them. Gurnwald has done well -- he could do even better with some minor moves like this. All I'm saying...
    Last edited by finestrg; Dec 21, 2012 at 10:00.

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    If we cut White I'd bring in Q Rich I think he fits what we are trying to do more than CDR

    Cutting Kurt for D Leaguer would be straight disrespect!!!!

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    D league players come a dime a dozen. Im pretty sure cdr or jj won't be dictating any teams future like you're trying to say. It's pointless to tweak anything when we're playing so good... Knicks fans are never pleased...

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    Still not happy with being 1st in the east?

    Kurth Thomas and James White are needed on this team. The chemistry and friendship on this team is tremendous i've never seen anything like it.

    NO MOVES WILL BE MADE.

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    Originally Posted by finestrg
    I understand this team's dynamics very well, thank you. I understand that Kurt Thomas and James 'Flight' White (esp. White) have never won anything and will have little or nothing at all to do with this team's future success. Think about what you're saying & who I'm saying should be replaced -- we're talking about Kurt Thomas and James White here. You're talking like each guy is some key piece to the puzzle. Come on now..
    So, we go 19-6 this season; Coach Woodson has one of the best beginnings as Knick Coach with a 37-12 record, 18-1 at home and you propose changes? SMH

    The second thing is your response above. You ask if KT or White are key pieces to the puzzle? I ask are JJ and CDR?

    The answer is no. Although we can make the case that KT and JW were involved (however limited) in our best start in 20 years.

    I'll repectfully disagree with both your logic and attempt to disrupt something NO ONE HERE has seen from the Knicks. Fail.

    As one poster put it, you seem to not have a grasp on who we are.. sadly.

    We are one of the- if not the best team in the EAST. And that's sans two of our best players; one defensive minded, the other gives us size and additional scoring.

    Let's worry about that first before we go D-League shopping. Close thread.

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    Default Again...Huh??

    Respectfully, I can't believe the reaction to what I'm trying to say here. To me this is a complete no-brainer.. Question -- How does Kurt Thomas and Jame White (esp. White) have anything to do with our identity as a team this year? I don't get it...You think anyone out there identifies this team with those two players?? The truth is they are the last 2 players any opposition out there thinks about when they think about or try to prepare for us...They're both end of the rotation guys...White technically isn't even in the rotation, even down Shumpert..And Thomas wouldn't be if we were at full strength up front. KT's at the end of the line and hanging on for dear life at this point and White probably shouldn't even be in the NBA...Chris Copeland most likely gets more attention from other teams now than both of those guys and deservedly so. Cope's been solid all year when called upon.

    Don't misconstrue -- I'm not saying I don't appreciate every min they've given us or don't appreciate the really nice career KT has had or his prior contributions to this team over a decade ago. I do, believe me. All I'm saying is that if we ever happen to find ourselves in a position like we were in the other night against Houston -- down Melo & STAT off the top, Shump, then this big, that big, etc. -- I'd like better alternatives to go to war with than a 40 yr old KT and James White. Me and my buddy were at that game (paid $135 apiece for tix) and once we heard Melo wasn't playing I knew we were in trouble. So did everyone around us we were talking to. We could use a little more firepower at the end of the roster, God forbid we have to tap it in an emergency, not to mention JJ and CDR would be 2 nice young pieces to develop and hopefully move forward with at cheap money...All I'm saying. Where does it say that a veteran ballclub can't get a little younger, more athletic and more explosive??? Almost 99% sure Kurt Thomas and James White will not be on the team next year. Thomas probably retires. Don't know what to tell ya fellas -- I don't look at either guy as a real glue guy here, on or off the court. Sorry. We're the same team with or w/o KT or JW....I'm saying we could be an even better team with minor moves like this. Isn't that the goal -- to be the best team we could possibly be?? Swapping out those 2 for 2 of the better NBDL players, both much younger and more talented, makes us a better/deeper club in my eyes. If we had a JaJuan Johnson and CDR the other night against the Rockets, I feel like we could've put up a much better fight than we did. Not trying to pin all the blame on these two guys -- of course it wasn't all their fault -- the whole team had an off night -- Kurt and White just didn't do anything to make us more competitive and I have trouble seeing how they will in the future.

    Take a look here and tell me these two wouldn't be upgrades over KT and James White:





    Last edited by finestrg; Dec 21, 2012 at 13:25.

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    How can 2 nice young pieces fail to get an NBA contract? There are things that KT knows that JJ hasn't even learned yet. Also remember, KT's value also comes from his input as a veteran whose been in many post season battles. What do you think he's talking to guys about when they're on the bench?

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    Originally Posted by New New York
    If we cut White I'd bring in Q Rich I think he fits what we are trying to do more than CDR

    Cutting Kurt for D Leaguer would be straight disrespect!!!!
    AFAIK we don't have anyone on our roster that has any connection with our era of complete failure and I'd like to keep it that way.

    I agree with everyone in the thread who says we shouldn't make adjustments. You might not see where Kurt and Flight White fit on the team but doesn't mean they aren't making important contributions.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    How can 2 nice young pieces fail to get an NBA contract? There are things that KT knows that JJ hasn't even learned yet. Also remember, KT's value also comes from his input as a veteran whose been in many post season battles. What do you think he's talking to guys about when they're on the bench?
    I'm assuming you're talking about STAT & Chandler, our 2 youngest bigs (don't really see Cope as a big, more of a wing) -- I see the point of KT imparting some of his experience, knowledge & wisdom on those two but what do you think Sheed and Camby have been doing? How much 'veteran presence' and veteran advice is enough? Plus Chandler, STAT, Melo aren't rookies..They're vets themselves, albeit younger vets. Kidd and to a slightly lesser degree Sheed are different stories btw -- not only are both former champions but both have been all-stars AND MOST IMPORTANTLY both can still play ball at a pretty high level...Higher than KT anyway...What is Kurt Thomas teaching Amar'e Stoudemire, Ty Chandler or Carmelo Anthony?? How to invest their retirement money?? Seriously, let's take it easy with this Kurt Thomas stuff already, alright? Jeez..Has this guy ever won a ring? Has he ever even been to an all-star game?? Did he get us over the hump in '99 when he was younger and had more game??? As I recall, guys like Camby, LJ, Spree and maybe even Ewing and H2O laughed at KT yrs ago when he said he should get the ball more...Anyone remember that?? I like Kurt man and respect his career and the longevity and all but come on man...Some of you guys are making it sound like removing KT is like ripping an entire engine right out of a car...Just not so. It's more in line of losing your gas cap...Car still runs, can still put gas in your car, right? No real noticeable difference. At least that's how I see it... I'm talking about getting that same car washed & detailed and pimped out a little to look more like Miami's car (or Miami's car from last year, lol) or better yet, the Thunder's car...See what I'm saying? I see most don't feel the same way though so I guess we'll just agree to disagree & call it a day on this. Still much love for everyone here. Happy Holidays to all!! Go Knicks!!
    Last edited by finestrg; Dec 21, 2012 at 14:57.

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    Thumbs down

    Ever hear "if it ain't broke don't fix it"?

    The problem here is three fold.

    One, everyone here and their mother could name players better than KT and JW. That should be no surprise given the fact they are #'s 11 & 12 on the depth chart. And that's the point, no one (except you) is focused nor worried about upgrading 11 and 12 when we are still missing 40% of OUR STARTING LINE-UP.

    Two, there is no one in the NBADL that could've realistically improved our recrd from where it is, hence the unecessary focus on 11 & 12.

    Three, why would we consider doing anything to possibly mess with our chemitry that we built?

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    team ain't broke, don't fix it. KT and Flighty Whitey may not be contributing on the court,
    but they're part of the team chemistry that makes the Knicks what they are now, 19-6.

    Once STAT and SHUMP are back, and Gumby returns, those final 3 spots (13-15) are going
    to be DNP's the rest of the way, unless someone's hurt, so might as well keep things the way they are.
    I'd take Hopeland over the D-leaguer's anyway.

    also bear in mind KT and White are playing in scrimmages in practice, they are well versed in the ways
    of the Wood, and the familiarity with team players and Knicks system is key.

    i see where finestrng is coming from, he wants the team to be the leanest and meanest,
    is it possible to sign JJ and CDR to an Erie Bayhawks contract, so they're available to the Knicks
    IF and WHEN needed?

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    [QUOTE=finestrg;259277]Respectfully, I can't believe the reaction to what I'm trying to say here. To me this is a complete no-brainer.. Question -- How does Kurt Thomas and Jame White (esp. White) have anything to do with our identity as a team this year? I don't get it...You think anyone out there identifies this team with those two players?? The truth is they are the last 2 players any opposition out there thinks about when they think about or try to prepare for us...They're both end of the rotation guys...White technically isn't even in the rotation, even down Shumpert..And Thomas wouldn't be if we were at full strength up front. KT's at the end of the line and hanging on for dear life at this point and White probably shouldn't even be in the NBA...Chris Copeland most likely gets more attention from other teams now than both of those guys and deservedly so. Cope's been solid all year when called upon.


    there is a balance on our team from top to bottom, its not about talent or who is better when talking roster spots 13-15 because any team can interchange any of them and there TALENT wont change. however the team dynamics will, leadership resonsibilites, practice habits and all will disrupt our chemistry... if youre baking a dish and you change one ingredient to a better tasting ingredient will that dish be the same? no... so why change it, there is not a single reason to make adjustments... remember our keith van horn trade, we were playing great leading up to it and while tim thomas is better we ended up playing horribly from there on.

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