View Poll Results: What is the greatest Knick weakness so far (12/21/12)

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  • Rebounding

    14 56.00%
  • Too many threes

    1 4.00%
  • Perimeter Defense

    9 36.00%
  • Identity

    0 0%
  • Other... (please explain)

    1 4.00%
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Thread: If the Knicks can fix this... Easily Identifiable Weaknesses

  1. #1
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Cool If the Knicks can fix this... Easily Identifiable Weaknesses

    Thanks to the Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls we can easily identify our Knick weaknesses. I'll go on record and start with the following:

    1. Rebounding - This is a defensive stat, period. You can't have a great defense without boxing out and rebounding. We rank 28th in this department.

    Most explain our poor rebounding by stating this is a result of our high fg percentage, slow pace, and tap outs (although those are scored as rebounds). Since coach is going with the small line-up, I'd say this is primarily due to lack of size, poor play design for positioning, and not boxing out because we're on the perimeter. Playing Melo out of position while offensively beneficial, will take it's toll, and forces us to resort to additional jump shots.

    2. Too many Threes - Most explain this by saying "we're taking open shots" and they're dropping as we were ranked 3rd in this stat. The problem here is relying too much on the three and getting away from fundamentals. I'm on record asserting my dislike for too many threes, dropping or not.

    Against a team like the Bulls, without the ability to get in the paint, the kick-out three doesn't have the same effect. My advice to coach would be to realign our line-up with Melo at SF, STAT at PF (when ready) and design more plays in the paint besides the P&R. More backdoor cuts, screens, post-ups, and multiple rollers to the basket to prevent the defense from clogging the lane and covering the perimeter. The three will be there, but fundamentally a GREAT team must play inside-out as the law of averages will prevail.

    3. Perimeter Defense - I asked if Felton was good enough to win a chip with us? The answer is NOT IF HE DOESN'T THWART penetration. Yes Kidd is helpful and valuable; and yes Felton can run the offense, but without someone to guard against penetration our defense will deplete over the course of a game (likely with fouls mounting) and our bigs will be ineffective. Perhaps Shumpert will help but players who are slow in rotation and staying in front of their man such as Felton and Novak are hurting us.

    4. Identity - Because of the above we have forged a certain identity of living and dying by the three and locking in on defense for stretches. We also have great guards that don't turn the ball over and get assists. That's why I feel this is the hardest aspect to alter.

    I say alter because we have some good traits but we lack go to options on offense besides chucking threes and work counterintuitive at times by design. That's surprising seeing how well the P&R has been for us.

    Defensively we don't have many who qualify as better than average- one being Brewer but he is too streaky offensively to get major minutes the opposite is true for Novak who is also a streaky shooter but is a liability on defense.. Coach must go against his instincts and cut back on the threes in favor of more high percentage shots and the P&R, even if the threes are dropping. This means less minutes for Novak unless he steps his defense up and sends the proper message; Defense wins championships.

    We are playing at 60%, missing 2 key starters, yet we excelled. There are four important facets of a champion we must achieve if we want to be great as other champions and should be our next level of ascension. Consistency, variety, comradery, and adaptability. We aren't bad consistency wise and we are building our chemistry- without which we will fall apart facing adversity.

    If coach could tweak our philosophy to exploit the paint we will have better offensive options in times when the three isn't falling and perhaps be in better position for rebounds (see MDA). If coach can adapt such as knowing when to go big (or small), and design offensive options to go inside more often, we can compete for the chip, but as of now he is strapped and we are limited.

    Sadly we won't know if all this is possible until February but the good news is that we don't lack heart and desire. Stay tuned.
    Last edited by Red; Dec 21, 2012 at 22:05.

  2. #2
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    For me our 2 Main weaknesses are Rebounding and Interior Defense

    Rebounding is one of our MAIN weaknesses, we need to crash the boards better.

    Interior Defense Another weakness we suffer from due to putting Melo at the 4 and playing small ball...

    Small ball works for majority of the teams in NBA, but when you run into teams like the Grizzlies, Bulls, Clippers, thunder etc etc teams who will make you work down low and bang bodies with you... Your going to need more SIZE at the 4.

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    I picked perimeter defense. Which I do think Shump will help with. We've had a lot more trouble with quick guards than we've had with bigs scoring in the paint. After that it's definitely rebounding.

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    Games against the Rockets and Bulls are good examples of why the Knicks have a long way to go in order to be a dominating force in the playoffs.

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    Member TruOrngnBlu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Thanks to the Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls we can easily identify our Knick weaknesses. I'll go on record and start with the following:

    1. Rebounding - This is a defensive stat, period. You can't have a great defense without boxing out and rebounding. We rank 28th in this department.

    Most explain our poor rebounding by stating this is a result of our high fg percentage, slow pace, and tap outs (although those are scored as rebounds). Since coach is going with the small line-up, I'd say this is primarily due to lack of size, poor play design for positioning, and not boxing out because we're on the perimeter. Playing Melo out of position while offensively beneficial, will take it's toll, and forces us to resort to additional jump shots.

    2. Too many Threes - Most explain this by saying "we're taking open shots" and they're dropping as we were ranked 3rd in this stat. The problem here is relying too much on the three and getting away from fundamentals. I'm on record asserting my dislike for too many threes, dropping or not.

    Against a team like the Bulls, without the ability to get in the paint, the kick-out three doesn't have the same effect. My advice to coach would be to realign our line-up with Melo at SF, STAT at PF (when ready) and design more plays in the paint besides the P&R. More backdoor cuts, screens, post-ups, and multiple rollers to the basket to prevent the defense from clogging the lane and covering the perimeter. The three will be there, but fundamentally a GREAT team must play inside-out as the law of averages will prevail.

    3. Perimeter Defense - I asked if Felton was good enough to win a chip with us? The answer is NOT IF HE DOESN'T THWART penetration. Yes Kidd is helpful and valuable; and yes Felton can run the offense, but without someone to guard against penetration our defense will deplete over the course of a game (likely with fouls mounting) and our bigs will be ineffective. Perhaps Shumpert will help but players who are slow in rotation and staying in front of their man such as Felton and Novak are hurting us.

    4. Identity - Because of the above we have forged a certain identity of living and dying by the three and locking in on defense for stretches. We also have great guards that don't turn the ball over and get assists. That's why I feel this is the hardest aspect to alter.

    I say alter because we have some good traits but we lack go to options on offense besides chucking threes and work counterintuitive at times by design. That's surprising seeing how well the P&R has been for us.

    Defensively we don't have many who qualify as better than average- one being Brewer but he is too streaky offensively to get major minutes the opposite is true for Novak who is also a streaky shooter but is a liability on defense.. Coach must go against his instincts and cut back on the threes in favor of more high percentage shots and the P&R, even if the threes are dropping. This means less minutes for Novak unless he steps his defense up and sends the proper message; Defense wins championships.

    We are playing at 60%, missing 2 key starters, yet we excelled. There are four important facets of a champion we must achieve if we want to be great as other champions and should be our next level of ascension. Consistency, variety, comradery, and adaptability. We aren't bad consistency wise and we are building our chemistry- without which we will fall apart facing adversity.

    If coach could tweak our philosophy to exploit the paint we will have better offensive options in times when the three isn't falling and perhaps be in better position for rebounds (see MDA). If coach can adapt such as knowing when to go big (or small), and design offensive options to go inside more often, we can compete for the chip, but as of now he is strapped and we are limited.

    Sadly we won't know if all this is possible until February but the good news is that we don't lack heart and desire. Stay tuned.

    Great post... Good Job. I agree with all that you pointed out.
    I'll add for all of Stat's shortcomings on D he is still a big body that will grab some boards and bolster the inside game.

    I gotta say i like him coming off the bench unless Woody can incorporate him in without sacrificing good spacing which i have no idea how that's possible to this point.
    Last edited by rady; Dec 24, 2012 at 19:13.

  6. #6
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    Rebounding and our best PG is Jason Kidd who's about to retire next year.

    We gotta address these issue and we'll be ready for a championship.

  7. #7
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    too many 3's, rebounding issues, assist issues and breaking down the defense...yet we still are in first place...Hey, the Heat won a championship last year with several issues too

  8. #8
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYk_Reloaded718
    For me our 2 Main weaknesses are Rebounding and Interior Defense

    Rebounding is one of our MAIN weaknesses, we need to crash the boards better.

    Interior Defense Another weakness we suffer from due to putting Melo at the 4 and playing small ball...

    Small ball works for majority of the teams in NBA, but when you run into teams like the Grizzlies, Bulls, Clippers, thunder etc etc teams who will make you work down low and bang bodies with you... Your going to need more SIZE at the 4.
    Don't you think the more success Melo has at the 4 the less likely Woodson is to move him?

    Or maybe this is by necessity since Wallace/STAT/Camby are hurt, and KT is old.

    Maybe I should have added age to this poll.

  9. #9
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    for me is too much dribling and not allways good shot selection when other one is wide open

    almost no fastbreaks.

  10. #10
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Rebounding and our best PG is Jason Kidd who's about to retire next year.

    We gotta address these issue and we'll be ready for a championship.
    Are you suggesting ANOTHER Knicks trade by the deadline?

    ...this seems to be the case no matter who we field or how many wins we get.

    I guess it's championship or bust.

    The problem here is like I said about Melo at the 4 and our identity; Woody seems convinced that our PG's will suffice- I thought we had the best PG-Trio in the NBA, but considering the defense, I'm not so sure.

    Do we sit Felton? Start Pablo or Kidd? I think coach doesn't want to mess with his confidence- which is lacking right now.

  11. #11
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigapple
    for me is too much dribling and not allways good shot selection when other one is wide open

    almost no fastbreaks.
    Hard to fast break with no rebounds.

  12. #12
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    interior defense and rebounding.

    Knicks losses to Houston were not being able to defend the paint, and
    losses to Bulls were inability to procure rebounds (vs Joking Noah)

    couple that with the inability to score due to poor games from Feltip,
    the lack of ball movement due to iso's from Melo and JR where they're
    not hitting and driving into traffic, and Novak going ice cold, and you've
    got the recipe for disaster.

    i'd like to point out my faith in Feltip, he's the reason we won most of the games this year,
    he's playing thru injury, his driving, thriving, wheeling and dealing is great, and he's
    yet to play with STAT, which has proved to be a potent combo. Feltip almost single-handedly
    brought the Knicks back last night.

    Kidd cannot defend fast PG's, he's not the answer, he's part of the problem.

    also, Gumby has yet to play totally healthy, STAT's not back, and Sheed has been missing
    for some losses, so the interior defense should be shored up by the new year, thanks to
    aforementioned bigs and the return of the hair.

  13. #13
    Veteran bigapple's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Hard to fast break with no rebounds.
    when u have reb Felton is waisting 10 seconds for dribling then mostly passing to Chandler/Melo and then another waist for passing between Kidd & Felton

    teams like Spurs are running with Tony/Manu for layup or Denver Lawson

    this is diffrence

  14. #14
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    Defense + transition defense.

  15. #15
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    rebounding!!!!

    We are taking open 3's most of the time and can survive games when they are not falling if we rebound.

    Stat will help us get easier shots and will decrease the number of shots Felton is putting up

    Worried about rotation more than identity only because we have not had all our players back....

    was worried about Shump/JR/and Brewer rotation logjam but Brewer has essentially played himself out. But should Shump be playing over Kidd? or should Melo be playing the 4 over Stat? Should Kidd be our starting PG when we get everyone back?

    Kidd
    Shump
    Melo
    Stat
    Chandler

    in my opinion this is our best starting 5. 3 defenders around Stat and Melo, Kidd plays the role of floor general...but how does Felton respond to bench?

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