View Poll Results: What is the greatest Knick weakness so far (12/21/12)

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  • Rebounding

    14 56.00%
  • Too many threes

    1 4.00%
  • Perimeter Defense

    9 36.00%
  • Identity

    0 0%
  • Other... (please explain)

    1 4.00%
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Thread: If the Knicks can fix this... Easily Identifiable Weaknesses

  1. #16
    Member deamon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    Feltip almost single-handedly
    brought the Knicks back last night.
    Felton -13

    Prigioni +15

  2. #17
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    Probably the easiest identifiable (and correctable) weakness right now -- we're relying heavily on Kurt Thomas and Ronnie Brewer to get us through some tough times and they're both not up for the challenge. Flat out just ain't getting it done..Ain't cuttin' it....Starting to throw away games because of it imo..Suddenly depth isn't looking like a strength on this team anymore...Sprinkle in some James White, a guy who's available to Woody but obviously not even good enough to step in for the struggling Brewer (let's call it like it is--Brew's been awful lately on both ends and starting to look more like a below average signing rather than a steal)...I think we could use an upgrade at both of these positions (2/3 and backup 4/5). We don't have the chips to make a big trade or even cap space to absorb uneven salary in a deal...Ain't happening..So what do we do? Sit on our hands and continue to throw these guys out there (guys we know can't get the job done on a steady/consistent basis) and hope for the best or look to be proactive & improve a different way?

    Easiest move we can make right now -- buy out/outright waive Kurt Thomas and James White (still willing to keep Brewer around for the time being), open up the 2 roster spots and import some solid D-League talent at these positions on league-minimum contracts. I recommended the 6'10" JaJuan Johnson and Chris Douglas-Roberts from the NBDL, although there are plenty of guys out there that fit this mold (PF Kevin Jones was a guy I thought could help us but the Cavs scooped him up a couple of weeks ago)...CDR's off the table now btw -- just got called up by the Mavs (strange because they waived Derek Fisher--you'd think they'd go for more of a PG like a Shelvin Mack or Ben Uzoh, not another wing--they're stacked at the 2/3--but whatever, it was just a matter of time before CDR got the callup from someone--he earned it and I'm glad for him. Missed opportunity for us big-time if you ask me---this guy's a better talent than Brewer and White put together and would've made for a nice 2G tandem to go along with JR Smith while we continue to wait on Shumpert who's more than a month away)...JJ's a young big man who's still wet behind the ears, that's true, but he's everything Kurt Thomas isn't -- taller, longer, indisputably more talented, younger/more athletic, would be a better rebounder (we're getting killed on the glass nightly and KT isn't making up the difference), he's a shot-blocker and would be a better scorer at this stage. This kid's worth taking a chance on. With Sheed out now indefinitely with the stress reaction and Camby pulling his usual nonsense with injuries, we need help up front right now however we can get it. Don't care that the imports I'm talking about are young players (we can't add anyone else--we don't have the trading chips or cap room to add more experienced talent) or that Amar'e & Shump are almost back. They ain't back yet and I don't wanna throw away another game...Go get me this kid JJ and then continue looking for a 2G upgrade on the cheap somewhere. They're out there man. Go find one...Kidd's been a nice surprise but is starting to come back down to Earth, plus the last thing I wanna do is run him into the ground.
    Last edited by finestrg; Dec 23, 2012 at 13:34.

  3. #18
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    Originally Posted by deamon
    Felton -13

    Prigioni +15

    i'm talking 4Q heroics.

  4. #19
    Superstar elcol's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deamon
    Felton -13

    Prigioni +15
    Although Felton has his problems, your comment is still really stupid. I'd like to see Prigioni start and play the minutes Felton plays and you would see how easily he can be exploited. Prigioni can only do one thing and that is the PNR and he does the PNR very efficiently. With a little aggressive defense or any defense at all, Prigioni cannot penetrate the paint and he is very hesitant about even taking an open jump shot. Think of all the possessions that the PNR doesn't work so they pass it around and someone takes a contested three. At least Raymond brings dribble penetration and a pretty good mid range jumper(on most nights at least), the penetration being something the knicks SORELY need.

  5. #20
    Member deamon's Avatar
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    3 earlier qtrs his offense was main reason of our weakness, so one qtr doesn't repair it when we lose game.
    ,,At least Raymond brings dribble penetration and a pretty good mid range jumper(on most nights at least), the penetration being something the knicks SORELY need."
    Kidd should run offense, and Felton play SG if he wants take so many shots.

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by deamon
    3 earlier qtrs his offense was main reason of our weakness, so one qtr doesn't repair it when we lose game.
    ,,At least Raymond brings dribble penetration and a pretty good mid range jumper(on most nights at least), the penetration being something the knicks SORELY need."
    Kidd should run offense, and Felton play SG if he wants take so many shots.
    it wasn't just felton having poor 3Q. dribble penetration is one of the greatest assets of any PG.
    Kidd can only play a certain amount of minutes. Prigioni as well.

    the mass hatred of felton on this forum makes me shake my head.
    other than losses to Houston and Chicago, Knicks are 19-3. was Felton really responsible for all losses?
    and what percentage of his play was he responsible for the wins?

    remember, he's playing with 2 bruised hands!
    the man can't even jerk off!

  7. #22
    Member deamon's Avatar
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    We're talking about last game, I don't balme him for all our losses. Sometimes he takes too many stupid shots. Felton has bad shot selection. If he's running offense, he shouldn't take such stupid shots, but create open position for teammate and pass to him.

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Thanks to the Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls we can easily identify our Knick weaknesses. I'll go on record and start with the following:

    1. Rebounding - This is a defensive stat, period. You can't have a great defense without boxing out and rebounding. We rank 28th in this department.

    Most explain our poor rebounding by stating this is a result of our high fg percentage, slow pace, and tap outs (although those are scored as rebounds). Since coach is going with the small line-up, I'd say this is primarily due to lack of size, poor play design for positioning, and not boxing out because we're on the perimeter. Playing Melo out of position while offensively beneficial, will take it's toll, and forces us to resort to additional jump shots.

    2. Too many Threes - Most explain this by saying "we're taking open shots" and they're dropping as we were ranked 3rd in this stat. The problem here is relying too much on the three and getting away from fundamentals. I'm on record asserting my dislike for too many threes, dropping or not.

    Against a team like the Bulls, without the ability to get in the paint, the kick-out three doesn't have the same effect. My advice to coach would be to realign our line-up with Melo at SF, STAT at PF (when ready) and design more plays in the paint besides the P&R. More backdoor cuts, screens, post-ups, and multiple rollers to the basket to prevent the defense from clogging the lane and covering the perimeter. The three will be there, but fundamentally a GREAT team must play inside-out as the law of averages will prevail.

    3. Perimeter Defense - I asked if Felton was good enough to win a chip with us? The answer is NOT IF HE DOESN'T THWART penetration. Yes Kidd is helpful and valuable; and yes Felton can run the offense, but without someone to guard against penetration our defense will deplete over the course of a game (likely with fouls mounting) and our bigs will be ineffective. Perhaps Shumpert will help but players who are slow in rotation and staying in front of their man such as Felton and Novak are hurting us.

    4. Identity - Because of the above we have forged a certain identity of living and dying by the three and locking in on defense for stretches. We also have great guards that don't turn the ball over and get assists. That's why I feel this is the hardest aspect to alter.

    I say alter because we have some good traits but we lack go to options on offense besides chucking threes and work counterintuitive at times by design. That's surprising seeing how well the P&R has been for us.

    Defensively we don't have many who qualify as better than average- one being Brewer but he is too streaky offensively to get major minutes the opposite is true for Novak who is also a streaky shooter but is a liability on defense.. Coach must go against his instincts and cut back on the threes in favor of more high percentage shots and the P&R, even if the threes are dropping. This means less minutes for Novak unless he steps his defense up and sends the proper message; Defense wins championships.

    We are playing at 60%, missing 2 key starters, yet we excelled. There are four important facets of a champion we must achieve if we want to be great as other champions and should be our next level of ascension. Consistency, variety, comradery, and adaptability. We aren't bad consistency wise and we are building our chemistry- without which we will fall apart facing adversity.

    If coach could tweak our philosophy to exploit the paint we will have better offensive options in times when the three isn't falling and perhaps be in better position for rebounds (see MDA). If coach can adapt such as knowing when to go big (or small), and design offensive options to go inside more often, we can compete for the chip, but as of now he is strapped and we are limited.

    Sadly we won't know if all this is possible until February but the good news is that we don't lack heart and desire. Stay tuned.
    One of the most insightful posts to date...starting with the REBOUNDING. Yes too many three's. Can't add anything to your perfect post.

  9. #24
    Member Munchen13's Avatar
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    Our worst losses came against the rockets, they beat us because our perimeter defense is bad. So there you have it.

    The heat got a championship without being the best rebounding team, but boy.. did they have a good small ball defense last year!

  10. #25
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    interior defense and rebounding.

    Knicks losses to Houston were not being able to defend the paint, and
    losses to Bulls were inability to procure rebounds (vs Joking Noah)

    couple that with the inability to score due to poor games from Feltip,
    the lack of ball movement due to iso's from Melo and JR where they're
    not hitting and driving into traffic, and Novak going ice cold, and you've
    got the recipe for disaster.


    i'd like to point out my faith in Feltip, he's the reason we won most of the games this year,
    he's playing thru injury, his driving, thriving, wheeling and dealing is great, and he's
    yet to play with STAT, which has proved to be a potent combo. Feltip almost single-handedly
    brought the Knicks back last night.

    Kidd cannot defend fast PG's, he's not the answer, he's part of the problem.

    also, Gumby has yet to play totally healthy, STAT's not back, and Sheed has been missing
    for some losses, so the interior defense should be shored up by the new year, thanks to
    aforementioned bigs and the return of the hair.
    Did I ever tell you I love your posts, no homo? I would describe the first part as a systematic breakdown, worst case scenario. I can agree about defending the penetration I see Felton and co. unable to sucessfully drive the lane and put up a quality shot against Noah. The Bulls are good at rotating in the paint (if you notice) and on the perimeter. Mad altered and blocked shots. The easy rebounds are available from there IMO.

    I have a rule regarding trusting knee injury rehab/return... gotta see it to believe it. 99%IMO don't make it back to 100% of their old self. But if he does that should be a big boost.
    Lol at the hair... which has me thinking of "the hare"

    Originally Posted by New New York
    rebounding!!!!

    We are taking open 3's most of the time and can survive games when they are not falling if we rebound.

    Stat will help us get easier shots and will decrease the number of shots Felton is putting up

    Worried about rotation more than identity only because we have not had all our players back....

    was worried about Shump/JR/and Brewer rotation logjam but Brewer has essentially played himself out. But should Shump be playing over Kidd? or should Melo be playing the 4 over Stat? Should Kidd be our starting PG when we get everyone back?

    Kidd
    Shump
    Melo
    Stat
    Chandler

    in my opinion this is our best starting 5. 3 defenders around Stat and Melo, Kidd plays the role of floor general...but how does Felton respond to bench?
    I can't see coach not starting Felton unless he really is hurt or stinks the joint up. He hand picked him and would be reluctant to change that. Kidd more than likely will be replaced by Shump depending on Shumps recovery,
    And Kidd will probably finish games in place of Felt unless Felt is on fire. Melo at the 4 should only be done in extreme circumstances. I would like to get use to Melo at the 3, stat at the 4.

    I agree we should surround them with defenders and ball movers, but STAT has to pick up the rebounding slack and offensive slack when Melo is cold or in foul trouble.

  11. #26
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    As the "experts" keep saying: "the Knicks can keep up thier great perimeter shooting because it comes in the flow of the offense...." I agree for the most part. The problem comes when you play teams like the Bulls that chase you off the 3 point line. Then you really need to hammer the ball inside. STAT returning should fix some of that. Sheed/Camby should help as well. We should be able to play frontcourt by committee. Funny thing is melo is our best post player. Our bigs should rebound better once we get healthier. This team is still a work in progress but "in Melo we trust." Having that superstar covers other team deficiencies. Example: melo's 19 in the 4th last night to save our bacon vs the loveless t-wolves. I bet The end of Friday nights Bulls game would have been a bit different if melo hadn't been shown the early gate.

  12. #27
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    Found this video that talked about Knicks weaknesses and what happened in that Houston vs NY game.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]!

    Basically, our 3 point offense is designed so that we don't really have players in the paint for offensive rebounds, and that kills us. Additionally, some notable players really hurt our defense if you watch the video.

    Too many 3's is also a big problem, because the % is bound to come down.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Don't you think the more success Melo has at the 4 the less likely Woodson is to move him?

    Or maybe this is by necessity since Wallace/STAT/Camby are hurt, and KT is old.

    Maybe I should have added age to this poll.
    Age.... Haha. That's without a doubt. I just don't think we have the gas to actually win it. Hopefully I'm wrong.

    I forget the stats but our record is great when we keep the opposition under 100. That's indicative of rebounding and lack of penetration. I watch these quick guards run circles around us and it pisses me off.

    We looked like a legit contender last year when our def was on. Shump was a big part of that and we will be legit once he's back.

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